Plague Angel Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 I suppose I should switch the order of those two words: it's not a funeral ceremony, no. But it's a funerary ritual. Space Marines have tons of rituals. The quasi-religious aspect is a major part of the setting. Every chapter has their own rites for different situations. So when I read this passage, I just think "this is part of the Blood Angels funeral rite, maybe even part of the older funeral rites of the Blood." In fact, that they were going to paint ritual tears on Sanguinius and he interrupted shows it's an older rite. And no, I see nothing wrong with the "I have real tears" line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Weasel Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 it's just a ritual on another planet, is it so wrong? It never says he's cryinig either. Which real army goes to war wearing bright red armor? this is a fictional universe, how the baalite mourn their dead has nothing to do with real anything... (and no i don't agree it has anythign to do with your humanity, i just think the primarch is shown to have more compassion for his troops then you want him to) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nathan Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 yea horus died a traitor. so maby it would have been better if he did cry for his men. sanguinius is the humanitarian, more than russs etc. and that makes the loss even more strongly felt by humainity. and every chapter views the other chapters primarchs chapters weirdly. look at some of the relations between magnus and some of the other traitors, most of them hated him openly like how we all imagined russ to hate him. im not suprised that they view ourprimarch as aloof. they dont know how to read him like the blood angels do. how could they with all the heavy cultural differences etc.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Weasel Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 you know what... all this talk just makes me want the book to come out now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demoulius Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 tbh if you think that a primarch who mourns his men is a wuss then youd either need a lesson in humanity, common decency, or both. yes they are warriors and made to fight. doesent mean that death (specialy that of an entire company) is a tragedy, even for space marines. for the record here, a company wasent 1000 troops, it was several thousand troops. the bond between primarch and marine was more akin to father figure and...well sons. he lost men whom he regarded more as friends and/or little children then he did them as soldiers (as most primarches do when regarding their marines) you think a real life person who loses a friend/family member and mourns that fact is a wuss? its not much different for astartas, who only know war and who only have eachother. mourning aside, he doesent pause very long before he starts to kick the xenos asses into pieces. they start a purge of that planet. exterminating an entire species for the loss of a few thousand men sounds pretty bad ass if you ask me... concerning the shawl of gold chain you think a shawl of gold chain is girly? do you have any idea how much that must weight? (for a normal human) a shawl of wool is something COMPLETLY different from a shawl of gold chain (and besides primarches are huge, so the chain must be inmense as well :nuke: ) saying you got tears of your own to tell someone you dont need a CEREMONIAL gesture to mourn your men has nothing to do with beeing girly either. its politics. (either that or not wanting the stuff on your face :D) sorry man i know your justs voicing your opinion here but tbh, look at the whole picture and every detail of the wording, imho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 I sure would be very happy if it's a good/great read. Swallow can't retcon too much since it's all pretty well known how everything works out. I'm hoping the setting is on Terra and takes place during the siege. I think that would be pretty epic stuff. G :nuke: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindhamster Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Well yes they were mourning deaths, but it wasn't at a funeral. Which real armies paint their faces and wear 'shawls' while crying about the lives lost? Which other Imperium ones do it? Women do that... I'm sorry but nowhere else in any 40k fluff does another commander/leader/primarch do that sort of thing. You are trying to insult me because you don't like it but this has nothing to do with my view of humanity... and I didn't write Sanguinius wearing a shawl and mourning 'make-up' either. Heck even shedding tears for their lives is somewhat understandable... but to announce, "I have real tears"... by a Space Marine!? ...while wearing a shawl and face paint? ...really? I'm the only one that thinks that is wrong? seems so :nuke: another fun note... he's not a space marine... but in all seriousness, Sanguinius has always been described with words such as Beautiful when in a normal situation, and it's been implied for a long long time that he was very 'human'. Not only that, but showing grief for the deaths of hundreds (well... a hundred) of your children... brothers or friends is also understandable. He is supposed to be more closely linked to his chapter than any other Primarch, it's why he flies into a rage (on more than one occasion) when they are threatened, both before and after he becomes the leader of a legion. Also, in that scene, the implication is that he is Grim, not bawling like a woman, he feels loss because he was able to PHYSICALLY feel the loss of so many of his marines. Horus describes Sanguinius as 'The best of us' Again I believe in that same book. This is because he apparantly shares the Emperors soul and desire to bring humanity forwards.... To me Sanguinius has always been described as something of a dual natured Primarch, in normal situations words such as Angelic, Lovely, Awesome, Inspiring, Beautiful would be fitting. He would litterally be along the lines of artwork from old bibles for Angel Gabriel sort of thing. On the other hand, when he gets mad (which he does on many occasions, but ALWAYS because his 'children' or 'family' are threatened') He would be more like some of the classic winged vampire artwork about, terrible, fearsome, destructive... while likely still Awesome and perhaps Inspiring. But again... he's only shown to be that much of a bad ass on the occasions either he or his legion are horribly wronged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demoulius Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 think we shouldnt forget here that he broke the lord of all bloodthirster's back over his knee! how is that NOT bad ass :nuke: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague Angel Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Oh by the way, an old point I forgot to mention, regarding opinions: Black Orange said that "Prospero Burns" has been universally panned, but on the other forums I frequent I've seen nothing but praise for it. I haven't read it yet myself so I can't comment. Though I wouldn't be surprised if it's not Abnett's best, seeing as he's said he's not a fan of the Wolves. But hey, you know: Opinions, man. Opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Gunzhard Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 For the record (again) I don't think there is anything wrong with mourning the dead, or even having make-up party rituals and the like... but regardless of how you've read/interpreted the history and fluff of our chapter PRE-HH-books, Sanguinius was never that guy. There has been a LOT written about Sanguinius in the past and I've collected all of it... so to me the change seemed drastic, nor was I a huge fan of the change. He was always noble and angelic, and beautiful... but there was never anything even remotely close to the person that wears a 'shawl' and make-up and says, "I have real tears." So I guess I am the only one that finds that change distasteful which is fine, but I think it's entirely inaccurate that you guys are saying that this is just the personality of Sanguinius and he was always like that - he wasn't. He was only written 'extra sensitive' in the few mentions of him in the HH books... is it a big deal? - no of course not. I now have every book that ever mentioned Sanguinius sitting in a pile right next me, except the green Realm of Chaos that is in storage. Honestly guys, I don't need you to agree with me, but just because you like the Primarch (so do I) and perhaps even the new 'sensitive/emo' version, that I do not so much like; doesn't mean I'm some indecent savage. Some of your comments, Demoulius are insulting and really just wrong. Again we are talking about Space Marines, not the cast of 'the view'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANCIENT FALOR Posted January 14, 2011 Author Share Posted January 14, 2011 I believe we are entitled to view sangunius as we like with in reason. I personaly feel he was emotional closer to his men. than other primarchs Why would the violent death of 500 veterens at Ka'bandas hands. render him unconcious? There's a strong bond there. Sanguinius should of been the warmaster. Humble, strong, charismatic,loyal, fierce, brave. A true leader. We will see him as never before in the novel. Let's have faith the BA and Sanguinius will be done Right. Though anything done will have its critics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demoulius Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 sorery if i insulted you m8, but tbh calling someone who mourns the dead a wuss and other such names seemed likewise distastefull in my eyes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Gunzhard Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Hmm yeah I never used those words... but no worries... regardless of which ever version you prefer, you have to remember that Sanguinius, like all of the Primarchs, is a warrior; not a politician, even though Horus was thrust into that role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demoulius Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 hmm yea rereading your posts i cant find it either, but the way your talking about someone mourning the loss (whatever their position) kinda set me off. i agree on the fact that the passage was somewhat odd, but tbh people in daily life get enough flak with culture clash allready. i thought it abit odd to mix this up in 40k as well. different people different customs right? he grew up on baal, not much is known about the customs of those people (aside from the fact that theyre bad ass) so something of this scope doesent seem so off in my eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daboarder Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 It's a ritual funeral. Real armies have them. I'm sure the other armies in the Imperium have them, too. Well yes they were mourning deaths, but it wasn't at a funeral. Which real armies paint their faces and wear 'shawls' while crying about the lives lost? Which other Imperium ones do it? Women do that... I'm sorry but nowhere else in any 40k fluff does another commander/leader/primarch do that sort of thing. You are trying to insult me because you don't like it but this has nothing to do with my view of humanity... and I didn't write Sanguinius wearing a shawl and mourning 'make-up' either. Heck even shedding tears for their lives is somewhat understandable... but to announce, "I have real tears"... by a Space Marine!? ...while wearing a shawl and face paint? ...really? I'm the only one that thinks that is wrong? one where the officers own sons are killed by aliens in a xenophobic society that believes suchs soldiers are the pinnacle of mankind and therefore the loss of even one let alone hundereds is a cause for anguish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Gunzhard Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Let me not mourn this dead horse... but so what your saying is that when a company of Space Wolves is lost to the warp, we should expect Leman Russ to don a 'shawl' (yes a shawl), paint a wolf on his face, and cry publicly? ...because I'm pretty sure he lost a company or two and I'm pretty sure he didn't wear a shawl, paint his face and cry. ALL of the primarch's had major losses and mourning is of course right and reasonable... that is not my point though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Weasel Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 A) Sanguinius didn't cry publicly, Russ WOuld probably wear the fur of some wolf, and Russ is pretty much a prick, so no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malatox Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 I'm thinking it'd be a good idea to drop this subject since it seems everyone had thier say and it may turn offensive and detract from the good news we should be sharing in... Everyone is entitled to thier views, I truely believe that. Sometimes I disagree strongly with someone on forums (especially when fluff and personal perseptions are concerned), I try to state that it's just my view and try not to form anything offensive... C'mon guys, it's Signum Prime! It's Blood Angels kicking some Khonates Deamons behinds! It's Sanguinius and Ka'Bandha knocking lumps out of each other! :D I can't be the only one imagining a great hulking bloodthirster rolling through the sky, locked in arms with our Primarch :D... Imagine the epic battles, imagine the characters that'll be developed, imagine all the good points! Let's here positive things about the new book coming out :D Malatox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANCIENT FALOR Posted January 14, 2011 Author Share Posted January 14, 2011 I'm thinking it'd be a good idea to drop this subject since it seems everyone had thier say and it may turn offensive and detract from the good news we should be sharing in...Everyone is entitled to thier views, I truely believe that. Sometimes I disagree strongly with someone on forums (especially when fluff and personal perseptions are concerned), I try to state that it's just my view and try not to form anything offensive... C'mon guys, it's Signum Prime! It's Blood Angels kicking some Khonates Deamons behinds! It's Sanguinius and Ka'Bandha knocking lumps out of each other! :D I can't be the only one imagining a great hulking bloodthirster rolling through the sky, locked in arms with our Primarch :D... Imagine the epic battles, imagine the characters that'll be developed, imagine all the good points! Let's here positive things about the new book coming out :D Malatox I agree brother malatox. I don't want anyone offending each other. We all have pride in tbe BA. We have different views but this thread is to share the news and discuss what we like to see. Like who is the" red angel " in the collected visions? Would anyone care to have that in the novel? Not to be at each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shatter Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Aww, it'll be ok. He's come a long way over the last decade. ADB mentioned they're kinda a team effort. His peers will take care of him should it be necessary... If they don't, we will. Right lads?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daboarder Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 why should we drop a perfectly valid topic of conversation incase it becomes nasty? this conversation has been civil so far and I see no reason why it should not remain so. If it does become nasty then by al means kill the thread but do not do it on a MAYBE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitefireinferno Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 I swear If he ruins another BA book I'm going to Replace his left ear with a Melta Bomb while he is asleep. I am not happy with Swallow getting the BA HH book, since his past books containing Us have Made us look like idiots Made Seth look useless had Fabious infiltrate Baal and ruin B) and the List goes on so Sadly I await a Crappy book for us yet again ;) (However expecting the worse is possibly the best approach) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gv0zD Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Speaking of what we can expect in the new book, I'd mention the Sanguinary Guard. In most HH novels the Primarchs were accompanied by Terminators (Magnus' Sekhmet, Mortarion's Deathshroud). I'd like to see Sanguinary Guard to fill this role, and they should be, judging by our latest dex. The description of Azkaelon would also be nice. Maybe there will be some hints on how he became the Sanguinor. What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Captain Kezef Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Speaking of what we can expect in the new book, I'd mention the Sanguinary Guard. In most HH novels the Primarchs were accompanied by Terminators (Magnus' Sekhmet, Mortarion's Deathshroud). I'd like to see Sanguinary Guard to fill this role, and they should be, judging by our latest dex. The description of Azkaelon would also be nice. Maybe there will be some hints on how he became the Sanguinor. What do you think? Sanguinary Guard where mentioned in "A Thousand Sons". When Magnus arrived on Nikea he was greeted by Sanguinius and his Sanguinary guard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judaz Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Well yes they were mourning deaths, but it wasn't at a funeral. Which real armies paint their faces and wear 'shawls' while crying about the lives lost? Which other Imperium ones do it? Women do that... I'm sorry but nowhere else in any 40k fluff does another commander/leader/primarch do that sort of thing. You are trying to insult me because you don't like it but this has nothing to do with my view of humanity... and I didn't write Sanguinius wearing a shawl and mourning 'make-up' either. Heck even shedding tears for their lives is somewhat understandable... but to announce, "I have real tears"... by a Space Marine!? ...while wearing a shawl and face paint? ...really? I'm the only one that thinks that is wrong? Jeez, get out of the macho-bubble. It takes a real man to cry in public. Much more so if it's considered wrong, or weak by the others. And wear a shawl and make-up? Ooooh, he must be gay! Or not. Sanguinius is more human than human. I'd say it's the manly, rough primarchs like Russ, Dorn and Mortarion that has problems with their sexuality, not Sanguinius. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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