Aegnor Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 The HH books have been many of my favourite books in the 40K-verse. But, as someone alluded to in the "ADB 4 World Eaters" thread, Erebus is one character whose gone from moderately interesting to just annoying. His appearances in First Heretic are fair enough as it was a book about the Word Bearers and I was glad he was largely an absent figure in that novel. But beyond that specific instance, in later books, for me at least he's got to the stage that Spectre reached in the Bond series - Blofeld was a cool character, but it's time to end this dance and move on. I'd actually quite like to see him get his comeuppance BEFORE the Siege of Terra - I'll be quite annoyed if he survives and ascends to daemonhood. So who would you like to see kill him, and how? I have a couple of ideas I'd enjoy reading. One, he shows up and tries his puppet master act with another chapter AGAIN, but gets rumbled and iced by the loyalist elements/Primarch in question. Even better, he oversteps the mark with Horus, who then quite brutally murders him personally for his presumption. As he dies, Erebus is outraged that this is happening to him as the chosen tool of Chaos before realizing at the end that the Dark gods got what they needed from him and now their chosen tool is Horus. Think for his credibility as alpha bad guy, regardless of how he came to fall, Horus needs to show that he's the boss, not the puppet of a traitor marine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A D-B Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 The HH books have been many of my favourite books in the 40K-verse. But, as someone alluded to in the "ADB 4 World Eaters" thread, Erebus is one character whose gone from moderately interesting to just annoying. His appearances in First Heretic are fair enough as it was a book about the Word Bearers and I was glad he was largely an absent figure in that novel. Actually, I sort of feel the same, which is why I toned his appearances down in The First Heretic, rather than completely change him and risk annoying his fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegnor Posted January 25, 2011 Author Share Posted January 25, 2011 Without wanting to sound like a suck-up, I think you struck the right balance, and Argel-Tal's disdain for Erebus and Kor Phaeron was one of my favorite parts of the book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khestra the Unbeheld Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Even better, he oversteps the mark with Horus, who then quite brutally murders him personally for his presumption. As he dies, Erebus is outraged that this is happening to him as the chosen tool of Chaos before realizing at the end that the Dark gods got what they needed from him and now their chosen tool is Horus. Think for his credibility as alpha bad guy, regardless of how he came to fall, Horus needs to show that he's the boss, not the puppet of a traitor marine. Considering he's still very much alive courtesy of Dark Creed, this thread is nonsense. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegnor Posted January 25, 2011 Author Share Posted January 25, 2011 Ah, haven't read that one. Curses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gv0zD Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Erebus is the person who strongly associates with the Heresy, and so he is almost ever-present in most HH-related novels. Like he was the one to create Spear from Culexus assassin. - scary but it was a bit too much imho (still I like Nemesis a lot). I want Erebus dead! I mean it! The way I want him die is the following: Erebus, concerned of his greatness and invincibility, rallies the traitor forces to overcome the last resistance at the Eternity Gate - Sanguinius - and when he charges, Sanguinius slices him in two halves without noticing his great opponent... But honestly, I don't expect such an ending...Such sneaky person lacks both courage and honour (unintended mentioning of Ultramarines motto ) will never stand in front of warriors betrayed by him. What I really expect, is that Erebus flees with the traitor legions, where he ascends to daemonhood, and when his soul is being consumed by the "granted" daemon, he finally understands that the True Gods he believed in are nothing more than hungry deamons that prey on human ambitions, and that in the end the powerful Erebus is nothing more than a simple jealous and power-hungry human... And slightly off topic. @ A D-B: "The First Heretic" is a great book, and so far it is my favorite HH novel. Just awesome ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khestra the Unbeheld Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Ah, haven't read that one. Curses. Sorry to spoil it for you. He's quite alive in the 41st millennium, playing games with Kor Phaeron and genuinely being a jerk to the Council of Sicarus. No matter how much we wish it were otherwise (why, oh, why, couldn't he have gotten Xaphen's treatment?? ;) ) the good Mr. Reynolds staked a claim and the galaxy continues to suffer with Erebus in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gv0zD Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Ah, haven't read that one. Curses. Sorry to spoil it for you. He's quite alive in the 41st millennium, playing games with Kor Phaeron and genuinely being a jerk to the Council of Sicarus. No matter how much we wish it were otherwise (why, oh, why, couldn't he have gotten Xaphen's treatment?? :lol: ) the good Mr. Reynolds staked a claim and the galaxy continues to suffer with Erebus in it. ^_^ That's a shame :cry: Though I didn't read the mentioned book either, it is expected of such sneaky :cuss to survive all odds, and remain the puppeteer behind the heresy and the following events. What interests me, is did Erebus actually believe in the Dark Gods and worshiped them, or he just saw them as a means to obtaining his own goals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khestra the Unbeheld Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 What interests me, is did Erebus actually believe in the Dark Gods and worshiped them, or he just saw them as a means to obtaining his own goals? From what I could infer, Erebus is the true believer, while Kor Phaeron is "Keeper of the Faith" but seemed to be more the user of them than a devotee. I attribute that to Erebus having a much clearer understanding of Chaos and knowing exactly what he was getting into. Judging from Dark Creed's events, they don't share exactly the same viewpoints on the nature of the Chaos gods and what they may or may not want, and this dichotomy has led to several internecine "cullings" based on differences of doctrine in the Legion. Lorgar, having sequestered himself entirely since his ascension, apparently communicates only in scriptures he occasionally stuffs under the door, leaving the two of them to their internal politics. I would like to say that Lorgar, being a daemon prince, takes great pleasure in watching the two of them trying to one-up each other in the name of Chaos, but probably knows that neither of them will ever ascend because no matter how long they keep this up, they're still basically as petty as they ever were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A D-B Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Ah, haven't read that one. Curses. Sorry to spoil it for you. He's quite alive in the 41st millennium, playing games with Kor Phaeron and genuinely being a jerk to the Council of Sicarus. No matter how much we wish it were otherwise (why, oh, why, couldn't he have gotten Xaphen's treatment?? :lol: ) the good Mr. Reynolds staked a claim and the galaxy continues to suffer with Erebus in it. :cry: Naw, it's been established fluff in a few places that Erebus survived. I think it's in the Word Bearer IA article, and it's definitely in Tales of the Dark Millennium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billuriye Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 From what I could infer, Erebus is the true believer, while Kor Phaeron is "Keeper of the Faith" but seemed to be more the user of them than a devotee. I think it is the exact opposite. Erebus is the power hungerer and uses Chaos for it while Kor is your typical dogmatic fundamentalist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khestra the Unbeheld Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Ah, haven't read that one. Curses. Sorry to spoil it for you. He's quite alive in the 41st millennium, playing games with Kor Phaeron and genuinely being a jerk to the Council of Sicarus. No matter how much we wish it were otherwise (why, oh, why, couldn't he have gotten Xaphen's treatment?? :lol: ) the good Mr. Reynolds staked a claim and the galaxy continues to suffer with Erebus in it. :cry: Naw, it's been established fluff in a few places that Erebus survived. I think it's in the Word Bearer IA article, and it's definitely in Tales of the Dark Millennium. Makes sense. I hadn't seen his name in anything I'd read until Horus Rising, and then his name got dropped in Dark Disciple and I put two-and-two together that they were the same guy. I still haven't read Tales and probably should do so. :cuss From what I could infer, Erebus is the true believer, while Kor Phaeron is "Keeper of the Faith" but seemed to be more the user of them than a devotee. I think it is the exact opposite. Erebus is the power hungerer and uses Chaos for it while Kor is your typical dogmatic fundamentalist. It could very well be. The First Heretic gives us one view of them, and Dark Creed flip-flops that perspective somewhat given Erebus' explained motivation for why he and Kor Phaeron are the way they are. Since one happens 10,000 years before the other, I attribute time as a factor in that change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khestra the Unbeheld Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Double post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A D-B Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Ah, haven't read that one. Curses. Sorry to spoil it for you. He's quite alive in the 41st millennium, playing games with Kor Phaeron and genuinely being a jerk to the Council of Sicarus. No matter how much we wish it were otherwise (why, oh, why, couldn't he have gotten Xaphen's treatment?? :tu: ) the good Mr. Reynolds staked a claim and the galaxy continues to suffer with Erebus in it. :o Naw, it's been established fluff in a few places that Erebus survived. I think it's in the Word Bearer IA article, and it's definitely in Tales of the Dark Millennium. Makes sense. I hadn't seen his name in anything I'd read until Horus Rising, and then his name got dropped in Dark Disciple and I put two-and-two together that they were the same guy. I still haven't read Tales and probably should do so. :) I'm so sick of seeing your name. Every bloody time, I think "God, that's a great name for a Chaos warlord... Don't use it... Don't use it... They'll say you come to B&C to steal ideas..." I hate you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khestra the Unbeheld Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 I'm so sick of seeing your name. Every bloody time, I think "God, that's a great name for a Chaos warlord... Don't use it... Don't use it... They'll say you come to B&C to steal ideas..." I hate you. It's not exactly trademarked. :tu: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kizzdougs Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 I love Erebus!! He is the boss. Primarchs and dance to his tune and worlds are extinguished at his command. Think how borring 40k would be without him...no heresy, no chaos marines just borring loyalists, tyranids and necrons. The boss (Erebus) also happens to lead my dark congregation of Word Bearers. Whats not to love? Ps. fingers crossed for an Erebus special character in the next chaos codex :tu: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hummus Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 I love Erebus!! He is the boss. Primarchs and dance to his tune and worlds are extinguished at his command. Think how borring 40k would be without him...no heresy, no chaos marines just borring loyalists, tyranids and necrons. The boss (Erebus) also happens to lead my dark congregation of Word Bearers. Whats not to love? Ps. fingers crossed for an Erebus special character in the next chaos codex :tu: +1 to this i love the fact that the primarchs are essentially dancing to erebuses tune the fact that someone who started out life as a human is making all the moves is awesome If they ever do get round to making a new chaos codex he should definately be in as a special character Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razhbad Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 I do not dislike Erebus, i liked the idea that he is responsible for a lot of the Heresy, i did not like that he seemed to pop up everywhere. But the one thing i never got was in False Gods why Horus never killed him. Erebus may have brought Horus to Chaos but the fact never changes, he caused serious harm to the Warmaster and while he was in his fever state he peraded around his mind as his favourate son. Now if i was the Warmaster i would not have let him survive no matter what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khestra the Unbeheld Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 I do not dislike Erebus, i liked the idea that he is responsible for a lot of the Heresy, i did not like that he seemed to pop up everywhere. But the one thing i never got was in False Gods why Horus never killed him. Erebus may have brought Horus to Chaos but the fact never changes, he caused serious harm to the Warmaster and while he was in his fever state he peraded around his mind as his favourate son. Now if i was the Warmaster i would not have let him survive no matter what. That would have soured relations with Lorgar, whom Horus genuinely seemed to like. He must have known how high in regard Lorgar held Erebus, and the knowledge that he could exterminate Erebus whenever he wished to was probably enough to satisfy him without having to actually kill him and risk earning Lorgar's disdain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegnor Posted January 25, 2011 Author Share Posted January 25, 2011 I suppose he probably had a good sense that Lorgar might waver without Erebus to steer him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 No one actually "Danced to Erebus' tune.." since it was the plan of millenia old warp entities. Actually the most annoying thing I found was the whole.. Xaphen hating Kor Phaeron in The First Heretic, then suddenly not because the Word has changed.. it left a very much :) moment.. Whereas Erebus was merely a distraction from the events in other books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billuriye Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Actually the most annoying thing I found was the whole.. Xaphen hating Kor Phaeron in The First Heretic, then suddenly not because the Word has changed.. it left a very much :) moment.. Xaphen was probably jealous of Kor but when he became one of Lorgar's favoured sons his hatred faded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Actually the most annoying thing I found was the whole.. Xaphen hating Kor Phaeron in The First Heretic, then suddenly not because the Word has changed.. it left a very much :) moment.. Xaphen was probably jealous of Kor but when he became one of Lorgar's favoured sons his hatred faded. It wasn't jealousy, because it was stated that he hated him for "not being a true Astartes..", in that he was only augmented rather than elevated to the status of Space Marine - in the way that Luther or other of the Dark Angels were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A D-B Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Actually the most annoying thing I found was the whole.. Xaphen hating Kor Phaeron in The First Heretic, then suddenly not because the Word has changed.. it left a very much :) moment.. Xaphen was probably jealous of Kor but when he became one of Lorgar's favoured sons his hatred faded. It wasn't jealousy, because it was stated that he hated him for "not being a true Astartes..", in that he was only augmented rather than elevated to the status of Space Marine - in the way that Luther or other of the Dark Angels were. He still hated him for that, but it showed the difference between the Chaplains and the rest of the Legion. Argel Tal and Xaphen were close brothers. Then they find the truth, and we see them four decades later. Xaphen now respects one of the Legion's religious leaders for more than just hating him for his genetic legacy, because his priorities have changed; and he's keeping secrets, essentially showing a much more distant side to himself than we'd seen before. The "sudden" change wasn't sudden at all - it was a look at two brothers after 40 years have passed, and one of the brothers has been keeping very dark company. You expect it to be a happy reunion, but it's not. It's sort of awful. Xaphen has become a tool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yogi Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 I thought you were supposed to hate erebus. I personal never cared either way for him. Also isnt he in a dread in dark creed? so something bad happened to him. The person to dislike is Lorgar the gutless flip flopper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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