Grey Knight Rumors Thread

[Brovius]

Indeed. ;)

 

A maximum penetration of 39, with an average of 17.

 

And then +1 on the damage table for being AP1.

 

And with BS 8, even if you roll a 1 to hit, you will still hit 50% of the time. And you now have an unlimited number of Turbo Penetrator shots.

 

Ouch, and I thought 4th edition Rending Carnifexes were dangerous to vehicles!

[SamaNagol]

Invalidating expensive conversions of GK with THammer and Storm Shields is rather annoying...

[Gentlemanloser]

I always wanted to build a unit of Terminators with Storm Shields and Eviscerators (Or counts as chain fists!). ;)

[Justcar]

I've been thinking more and more about personal teleporters for GKSS. All in all these things are pretty cool and with any luck (if BoK is wrong about this, not that I doubt it but fingers crossed that they are) if these guys remain troops and we can give them scout from the Grand Strategy. Lets say we get first turn and we use the 30 inch teleport move to drop a couple of our GKSS right in the heart of our opponents deployment. Scoring isn't really necessary but it sure doesn't hurt. Even more frightening, imagine doing this exact same thing with 3 Dread Knights. Suddenly the points for the PT on Dread Knights don't seem so bad to me. The more I think about it, the more amazed I am at the flexibility of what the GK Codex could possibly offer.

 

If you noticed on the leaked dex, it also says that SSGKs can Deep strike!!

[Valerian]

I've been thinking more and more about personal teleporters for GKSS. All in all these things are pretty cool and with any luck (if BoK is wrong about this, not that I doubt it but fingers crossed that they are) if these guys remain troops and we can give them scout from the Grand Strategy. Lets say we get first turn and we use the 30 inch teleport move to drop a couple of our GKSS right in the heart of our opponents deployment. Scoring isn't really necessary but it sure doesn't hurt. Even more frightening, imagine doing this exact same thing with 3 Dread Knights. Suddenly the points for the PT on Dread Knights don't seem so bad to me. The more I think about it, the more amazed I am at the flexibility of what the GK Codex could possibly offer.

 

If you noticed on the leaked dex, it also says that SSGKs can Deep strike!!

 

Yes, but with no Locator Beacons on the field, or other rules to make it safe, it'll be too dangerous to use. How many guys with regular Jump Infantry (regular SM assault squads for example) do you know that ever Deep Strike them in? The only ones I've ever seen try it are Blood Angels, but they've got Descent of Angels or even attach to Dante for no scatter.

 

I like that we have the option, but I don't expect that I would use it much.

 

V

[Vhalyar]

I like that we have the option, but I don't expect that I would use it much.

 

V

Purgation Squads, Storm Ravens and Mystics can all have (or act as) teleport homers.

[Justcar]

I've been thinking more and more about personal teleporters for GKSS. All in all these things are pretty cool and with any luck (if BoK is wrong about this, not that I doubt it but fingers crossed that they are) if these guys remain troops and we can give them scout from the Grand Strategy. Lets say we get first turn and we use the 30 inch teleport move to drop a couple of our GKSS right in the heart of our opponents deployment. Scoring isn't really necessary but it sure doesn't hurt. Even more frightening, imagine doing this exact same thing with 3 Dread Knights. Suddenly the points for the PT on Dread Knights don't seem so bad to me. The more I think about it, the more amazed I am at the flexibility of what the GK Codex could possibly offer.

 

If you noticed on the leaked dex, it also says that SSGKs can Deep strike!!

 

Yes, but with no Locator Beacons on the field, or other rules to make it safe, it'll be too dangerous to use. How many guys with regular Jump Infantry (regular SM assault squads for example) do you know that ever Deep Strike them in? The only ones I've ever seen try it are Blood Angels, but they've got Descent of Angels or even attach to Dante for no scatter.

 

I like that we have the option, but I don't expect that I would use it much.

 

V

 

You can't deep strike turn 1

 

use grand master to up the reserve roll and use the teleport homers when you want to deep strike...

 

I agree that I would rarely use it, but it adds even more tactical flexibility to an already great unit!

 

I heard that the chapter size has shrunk to 1000.

 

Has anyone else heard that?

[Resv]

I like that we have the option, but I don't expect that I would use it much.

 

V

Purgation Squads, Storm Ravens and Mystics can all have (or act as) teleport homers.

 

Strangely enough, Librarians also have the option to take a Teleport Homer. This makes "The Summoning" that much more interesting. According to the draft PDF this power allows the Librarian to summon any non-vehicle unit that isn't locked in combat on the battle field and they deep strike any where within 6 inches Librarian. Using the teleport homer to make sure there is no scatter seems like a good idea.

[Valerian]

I like that we have the option, but I don't expect that I would use it much.

 

V

Purgation Squads, Storm Ravens and Mystics can all have (or act as) teleport homers.

 

Yes, but of those, only the Stormraven is likely to be where you want to Deep Strike to. Purgation squads and Mystics are likely to be in the backfield, and you can just walk on back there.

 

V

[Justcar]

I like that we have the option, but I don't expect that I would use it much.

 

V

Purgation Squads, Storm Ravens and Mystics can all have (or act as) teleport homers.

 

Strangely enough, Librarians also have the option to take a Teleport Homer. This makes "The Summoning" that much more interesting. According to the draft PDF this power allows the Librarian to summon any non-vehicle unit that isn't locked in combat on the battle field and they deep strike any where within 6 inches Librarian. Using the teleport homer to make sure there is no scatter seems like a good idea.

 

I think it's necessary! If you have to deep strike the unit within 6" of the librarian, there is a large possibility of scattering onto your libby and destroying the unit! 15pts or so will be worth preventing your paladin unit from being destroyed in a deepstrike accident.

[Valerian]

The Librarian has so many other good powers that I don't see myself using the Summoning anyway. The mobility in this army looks so much better than it used to be.

 

V

[Marmande]

Can someone repost/compile the needed changes in the OP summary? I need to edit it a bit... :P

 

As for the .pdf, I think I've decided to just wait for the preview copy and hope they made some changes. Nothing huge, really, but that and the fact that any small change in points costs/revelation of what certain pieces of wargear do make it unwise to work on a list right now.

[gil galed]

I've just noticed that all of the assassins baring the vindicare have been massively nerfed.

 

Callidus now can't assault on the turn she arrives and while we get the cool new d6 str 4 ap2 attacks on one unit she'll get destroyed after that.

 

Eversor is just not as good as he used to be.

 

Culleux now can't target psykers.

 

Great :/

 

 

~Gil

[Justcar]

I've just noticed that all of the assassins baring the vindicare have been massively nerfed.

 

Callidus now can't assault on the turn she arrives and while we get the cool new d6 str 4 ap2 attacks on one unit she'll get destroyed after that.

 

Eversor is just not as good as he used to be.

 

Culleux now can't target psykers.

 

Great :/

 

 

~Gil

 

Maybe the release will include a new vindicare model? Though it doesn't bother me, because I always liked the vinidcare the best with the calidus as a close second.

[Oiad]

Can someone repost/compile the needed changes in the OP summary? I need to edit it a bit...

 

As for the .pdf, I think I've decided to just wait for the preview copy and hope they made some changes. Nothing huge, really, but that and the fact that any small change in points costs/revelation of what certain pieces of wargear do make it unwise to work on a list right now.

The latest version of my summary can be found here. I've made notable changes based on what is given by the draft and any info by sources that succeed it (i.e. Kate Drake @ Heresy) but if there is anything erroneous then feel free to pass them along so I can make the correct changes to my own post.

[SoulReaver296]

I have a discussion on assassins prepared, with pros and cons... eh, i'll just post it. keep in mind its a bit old

 

WARNING: WALL OF TEXT THAT WAS WRITTEN AT 4 AM ONE MORNING (haven't proof read it, so here's hoping I made sense )

 

 

So now that assassins will be (apparently and hopefully) be available without the need of an Inquisitor (and you may be able to field more than 1, just not the same temple... more on that later) they are starting to look like a much more attractive option. The thing is, some of them have changed (a lot), while others have (apparently) barely changed except for the statline. So, keeping in mind that this is based off of rumours, a discussion on the Assassins then and now

 

Firstly, the stat line has changed dramatically:

 

WS BS S T W I A LD SV

OLD 5 5 4 4 2 5 3 10 4++

NEW 8 8 4 4 2 7 4 10 4++

 

Add to that some form of FNP (I've heard 4+ and 6+, so we'll have to see), and they've certainly improved (with a price increase as well). Onto specific temples

 

One of the most changed was the Eversor, whose Neuro gauntlet is now just a lightning claw, executioner pistol is now a single new weapon, and lost his 12" assault for furious charge. Is he any better? Used right he is, but he no longer will inspire fear in wraithlords and carnifexes. BS 8 means he will often hit with his pistol, which has 2+ poisoned and ap2, so their's little question its better than his old sidearm. WS 8 means he'll hit more often against the ICs that he was meant to, and is in turn harder to hit back. With Lightning Claw vs poisoned 4+, LC wins up to 1 above the Eversor's strength (4 base, 5 on the charge thanks to furious charge so t5 and t6 respectively) and still keeps his +d6 attacks on the charge, though we'll have to see if he gets +1 attack for pistol and special weapon, since it is NOT an actual LC. Overall is he better? I would say so, but not by leaps and bounds vs average troops. It's against ICs and Hero units where he shines. In assault (assuming you get the charge and +1A for two weapons), The new eversor averages about 3.33 wounds against mephiston BEFORE he get to strike, as opposed to the old which averages 2 wounds AFTER mephiston goes. Couple this with .76 wounds from the new pistol, you got 1 almost dead mephiston. Of course, you have to catch him without the 12" assault, but fleet (another assassin rumour) does help a bit.

 

The Vidicare got a DEFINITE boost with these rumors, with a few negatives as well (so far). The two huge ones are bs8 (which makes sense for a super-sniper), and unlimited special ammo. While you lose the cover reducing spy mask (possibly still get it, but has not been mentioned yet), the fact that you are no longer limited to 1 shot of each type of special ammunition is huge. Every turn, you get a 2+ to hit (with 4+ reroll) with 2+ to wound ap1 shot that YOU choose where to place. If you're facing mech, it's a s3 ap1, 4d6 rending vehicle popper (avg of 17 penetration... yes, 17 meaning the average shot penetrates a land raider), still with that bs8. While it makes him a priority target, that's shots going to a single model, which could have been going onto your GKs, who also have tank popping ability. Tired of that 2++ save on that archon, or that stormshield on that relic blade captain? just use a shield breaker round. While it does no damage (only needs to HIT the target), it removes an invulnerable save granted by wargear for the rest of the game, allowing your normal squads to tear him apart with A LOT less trouble. Overall better? I think so, with the BS8, changes to the ammo and rifle, and unlimited ammo. Stealth has been rumoured to return, but again still no confirmation on it.

 

The Callidus got changed as well, though whether it's good or bad remains to be seen. "A word in your ear" appears to be gon, replaced with polymorphine, which makes a unit take d6 s4 ap2 hits, then pops her within 3" of them without scatter (but counts as deep striking). A nice disruption technique good for taking on firebase units or support HQs (like IG). Follow that up with the Neural Shredder (which is mostly the same, except it cannot harm vehicles), and you're talking about removing a unit in one fell swoop, possible removing a unit that was holding their back objective and leaving a dangerous foe on their side of the board. Now, rumours have said that the Ctan phase sword is just a power weapon, and I have also seen power weapon with instant death. If the former is true, then they really did a disservice to the callidus, whereas If the LATER is true, then i can accept that and can see the usefulness of it. Sure, she may not blow through a squad of termies with it, but against big things like ICs (see a recurring theme yet?), then she is a force to be reckoned with. Overall better? debatable, as there is a lot of debate over the sword and other things about her, and i'm sure many will be crying over the loss of "a word in your ear" if it turns out to be true. we'll see about this one

 

As for the Culexus? Theres been some change as well; Etherium changing LD test for shooting and assaulting to just needing a leadership test to assault it, No mention of the soulless, life drain, psychic abomination, or psyker assassin rules (not sure if they're gone, or just haven't been mentioned or even asked for), and the bonus shots with the animus speculum changing from 1 per psyker to 2 per psyker. I really don't know what to make of this one yet, as I think we're missing a fair bit of information on this one.

 

But the BIGGEST change, and one of the most important, is the change from 0-1 imperial assassin, to 0-1 of each temple assassin. While it may seem strange, using 2 elite slots for 2 ICs, it does make sense. First, since terminators have moved to troops (with paladins as elites), the synergy of 2 assassins working together makes a lot of sense, for not a HUGE loss in force org slots. Consider our eversor that just almost killed mephiston. While more likely that not, he'll end up dying, that puts a Vindicare in an excellent position to knock of that last wound and kill off mephy. Whats more, a vindicare can use his shield breaker to take off that invul save from that RB/SS captain, who then falls to the callidus' ID sword easily. A callidus softening up a large or tough squad of troops before an eversor charges in and lays waste to waste to the opponents "hammer unit". I think THAT is a game changer right there, if used wisely and properly.

[Vhalyar]

The Librarian has so many other good powers that I don't see myself using the Summoning anyway. The mobility in this army looks so much better than it used to be.

 

V

At 5 points for each power, it's pretty affordable to pick a few extra "just in case" powers. Then again, the Librarian can get costly real fast; at the very least, a warding stave is critical.

[Marid]

Invalidating expensive conversions of GK with THammer and Storm Shields is rather annoying...

 

I hear you. I have two conversions on my painting table right now. Nearly finished. :D

[Vhalyar]

Invalidating expensive conversions of GK with THammer and Storm Shields is rather annoying...

 

I hear you. I have two conversions on my painting table right now. Nearly finished. :D

Welcome to the club, share a seat with the Tyranid players and weep upon each other's shoulders.

[Marid]

Along with about 50 IST, 35 of which are fully painted and based. :cuss

[HERO]

Invalidating expensive conversions of GK with THammer and Storm Shields is rather annoying...

 

I hear you. I have two conversions on my painting table right now. Nearly finished. <_<

Welcome to the club, share a seat with the Tyranid players and weep upon each other's shoulders.

 

bahahahhahaha

 

I haven't laughed this hard for a while. So sad.. so true :(

[Ekgar_Wolf]

OK, assuming Daemonhammers double your S like Thunderhammers;

 

1: Might of Titan (Libby and Squad)

2: Vortex of Doom

3: Draigo (S10 versus Daemons/Psychers)

4: Mordrak (S10 with his MC Daemonhammer)

5: Ghost Knights (Free Daemonhammers)

6: Crowe (Max possible 13, so unable to hurt LR)

7: GM/BC (Daemonhammer)

8: Libby (Daemonhammer)

9: Graviton Beamer

10: Conversion Beamer (If it works the same as in C:SM)

11: Purifiers (Daemonhammer)

12: Venerable/Normal Dreadnought

13: Paladin (Free Daemonhammers)

14: Vindicare Assassin (4d6 Rending. Will penetrate anything in the game with ease)

15: Jokaero backed HB/PC Servitors (Rending HB can get AV15, and Rending PC can hit 16)

16: Terminators (Free Daemonhammers)

17: Strike Squad (Daemonhammers)

18: Purgation Squad (Daemonhammers)

19: Nemesis DreadKnight. :(

20: Land Raiders (Assault Cannons and Lascannons)

 

 

Why S10? Hammerhand adds +1S before other modifiers, like the Daemonhammer. If the DH was just +1S, there would be no need for the HH ower to include it in it's description. Even if it is, tkaing out all the DH squads, we're still left with (I've left of things like Psi-strike Missiles, etc) enough ways to pop armour. Even if it's just the Vindicare one-shotting a vehicle every turn.

 

So while it might be useful, or still the most cost effective, Melta spam is not required. <_<

 

A guy in other forum is telling that Daemonhammers ONLY double Strength to IC, rest of minis: +1 to S.

 

So perhaps we should not count on 6 options from that list, sorry.. <_<

[sonofblood]

According to the leaked Dex there were 2 types of Daemon Hammers, you had Nemesis Daemonhammers for just a few points, and then regular Daemon Hammers for the 3x the price. I'm guessing one will act like the current Daemonhammers in the 3rd Ed dex.

[Ekgar_Wolf]

According to the leaked Dex there were 2 types of Daemon Hammers, you had Nemesis Daemonhammers for just a few points, and then regular Daemon Hammers for the 3x the price. I'm guessing one will act like the current Daemonhammers in the 3rd Ed dex.

 

So we still miss that S10 on those 6 squads, and they do not have more than S6 (with HH and Nemesis DHammer), so problems if engaged with dreads and so on..

[Valerian]

The Librarian has so many other good powers that I don't see myself using the Summoning anyway. The mobility in this army looks so much better than it used to be.

 

V

At 5 points for each power, it's pretty affordable to pick a few extra "just in case" powers. Then again, the Librarian can get costly real fast; at the very least, a warding stave is critical.

 

With Nemesis Warding Stave and upgrade to Mastery 3 (why not?), along with a few powers to cast each round, my Librarian will be pushing about 250 points. I am seriously considering just taking a Librarian as my only HQ, until I get up to 2,500 point games. Even as nice as having a Grand Master with Grand Strategy might be, I think the Librarian brings more bang for the buck.

 

V