Inache Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 Actually I think it's the highest compliment. Adeptas Sororitas are so faithful and pure that their blood with the proper usage can turn back the Bloodtide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sothalor Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 Depending on the way it's written, it could come off as a sacred offering type of deal. Maybe it's a long standing arrangement between the Sororitas and the Knights for the most dire of circumstances. The Sisters are ritually slain to empower whatever defense and are honored and remembered as martyrs. I mean... it's not like the Grey Knights secretly snatch them from their dormitories in the dead of night, right? :huh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmande Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 The thing that irked me about the Sisters of Battle bit in the book was that it was to prevent a Bloodthirster spreading the Bloodtide. They killed women to stop the Bloodtide So wrong on so many levels. :confused: It makes sense. Time in the warp doesn't move at the same rate that it does in real space. With help from Malcador and Big E, they could have established a tide pool if you will in the warp where time was sped up. Big E and Malcador see everything going wrong side up, and take drastic measures. Garro assembles the most loyal and badass Space Marines he can find. They get a moon, enough bodies to create a fighting force, and then they transition to the warp, protected by planetary Geller fields. They accomplish in a few years real space time what it took the Emperor decades to do. Obviously they missed the fight at Terra, but as a last ditch effort to design and create a fighting force that could stand toe to toe with Horus' new daemon toys they succeeded, just a little bit too late. So Ward inserted the Hyperbolic Time Chamber into 40k? :huh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 Grandmaster Gouku was the second GM after Janus. :confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espada Azul Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 Hmm, so if I understand this right, Garro and his merry band of 'volunteers' (I recently listened to Legion of One) weren't technically the first Grey Knights? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmk17 Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 Garro's not mentioned by name, no. Neither is Iacton Qruze. The end events of Flight of the Eisenstein are vaguely referenced, that the Emperor started building the Inquisition very quickly into the heresy. 4 humans and 8 Space Marines are the beginning. The Humans start the Inquistion while the Marines start the Grey Knights. Due to Ward not wanting good fluff, he ignored the Black Library and tells of how 8 space marines are led to Titan. There shrouded by Malcador's massive psychic force was an entire moon turned fortress monastery. Everything was stocked and ready to go, including banks of geneseed. Also present were aspirants and space marines from other legions, totaling 992 people. Janus, one of the 8, is elected the first Chapter Master and Malcador flies off. Ward actually comes up just short of saying that Malcador actually wrote the Codex Astartes, with Guiliman filling in gaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irbis Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 Even if that was true, how exactly it is different from feeding a 1000 innocent souls every day into a glorified lighthouse? The psykers who get sacrificed to the Astronomicon are the psykers most dangerous to themselves and everyone around them. They A) survived until Black Ship shown up; B) survived Black Ship travel; C) survived necessary training. So, went through 3 very serious filtration sieves and lived. They would make very good Sanctioned Psyker material, but, sorry boys, we need to keep the lighthouse burning, tough luck. Or turning 90% of potential space marines into mindless servitors, just because there's tiny problem with their adaptation to geneseed, instead of training them as stormtroopers, as they are the very best human material already? Potential Space Marines are violent, preindustrial thugs - they are not Stormtrooper material. That completely ignores the fact that A) a big portion of marines are prime human material (say, these from Earth, Macragge, or any number of other civilized worlds) and B) stormtroopers in Schola Progenum aren't that different before indoctrination. Strongest, dumbest (relatively) humans in SP won't become Comissars of Officers, they go to veteran training, and are very good in such role. And both of these are groups of nameless nobodies in a population of trillions. Having the Grey Knights use another, allied faction's troops as a blood sacrifice in some dark rite is a more direct insult to that faction's players than the death of a dangerous psyker or barbarian: it's Matt Ward saying "my army is more important than your army". Insult? Saying 'we aren't pure enough, can you help us with that' is supposed to be insult? Besides, Sister themselves aren't above using the objects consecrates by blood of their martyrs, why would they object to their usage by the only force more critical than they are? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonofblood Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 Ward actually comes up just short of saying that Malcador actually wrote the Codex Astartes, with Guiliman filling in gaps. Maybe it is just me.. but I'd prefer that.. Malcador is infinitly cooler than Mr. Ihavenoemotionorcharacterdepth Guilliman in my book(pun intended?) and it could potentially lessen all the "Guilliman saved the Imperium after being absent from 90% of the Heresy!" cries going around and maybe reduce some Ultrahate(who I think are a cool chapter besides their primarch). But that's just me of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inache Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 Garro's not mentioned by name, no. Neither is Iacton Qruze. The end events of Flight of the Eisenstein are vaguely referenced, that the Emperor started building the Inquisition very quickly into the heresy. 4 humans and 8 Space Marines are the beginning. The Humans start the Inquistion while the Marines start the Grey Knights. Due to Ward not wanting good fluff, he ignored the Black Library and tells of how 8 space marines are led to Titan. There shrouded by Malcador's massive psychic force was an entire moon turned fortress monastery. Everything was stocked and ready to go, including banks of geneseed. Also present were aspirants and space marines from other legions, totaling 992 people. Janus, one of the 8, is elected the first Chapter Master and Malcador flies off. Ward actually comes up just short of saying that Malcador actually wrote the Codex Astartes, with Guiliman filling in gaps. Actually he's not ignoring fluff. If you listen to the Garro audiobooks, you'd find out that Garro has been given a mission by Malcador to go out and gather a handful of exceptional Space Marines from around the galaxy. He's given a new set of armor, unadorned by chapter markings save the heraldry of Malcador, the symbol =][=. And considering if he put detailed stuff in the founding that's basically spoilers for whatever HH books they decide to do about the =][=. Broad general strokes leaves the BL authors room to pump in more fluff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexHolker Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 They A) survived until Black Ship shown up; :mellow: survived Black Ship travel; C) survived necessary training. So, went through 3 very serious filtration sieves and lived. They would make very good Sanctioned Psyker material, but, sorry boys, we need to keep the lighthouse burning, tough luck. Wrong. They are not good Sanctioned Psyker material: SacrificesThe psychic levy inevitably harvests many whose powers are too random and minds too vulnerable. If left unrestrained they would soon perish, and their doom would lead to further deaths and maybe even to the destruction of entire worlds. In a teeming universe their loss is of no great matter, but even in death they can serve - for the Emperor must feed upon raw psychic energy if he is to survive as the protector of humanity. These sacrifices are fed into the Emperor's Golden Throne so that the Emperor and the Imperium itself can continue. That completely ignores the fact that A) a big portion of marines are prime human material (say, these from Earth, Macragge, or any number of other civilized worlds) and :D stormtroopers in Schola Progenum aren't that different before indoctrination. Strongest, dumbest (relatively) humans in SP won't become Comissars of Officers, they go to veteran training, and are very good in such role. Do you have a cite for any recruit who could be considered "prime human material" suffering this fate? And if you do, do you still claim that that "killing" such a recruit is comparable to the audience (the players) as killing a fellow soldier from another faction? Insult? Saying 'we aren't pure enough, can you help us with that' is supposed to be insult? Besides, Sister themselves aren't above using the objects consecrates by blood of their martyrs, why would they object to their usage by the only force more critical than they are? Yes, in the same way that the other players in a D&D game staking out the female paladin in front of the dragon would be an insult. And as I said, it's the OOC interaction that annoys me most about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inache Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 Do you have a cite for any recruit who could be considered "prime human material" suffering this fate? And if you do, do you still claim that that "killing" such a recruit is comparable to the audience (the players) as killing a fellow soldier from another faction? Well considering that it's common fluff knowledge that Space Marine recruit washouts become serfs or servitors I don't think it needs to be cited. And that Space Marine recruits are chosen because they are "prime human material". Yes, in the same way that the other players in a D&D game staking out the female paladin in front of the dragon would be an insult. And as I said, it's the OOC interaction that annoys me most about this. :P D&D is not grimdark. Sacrifice, brutality, and necessary evil are all hallmarks of 40k. Since I haven't seen the released codex, I can only assume that it was a necessary evil. If I remember correctly the Bloodtide is a semi-sentient now daemonic nanovirus from the dark age of technology. The blood of a martyr would be well suited to combating it, and if anybody has martyrs its the Sisters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Tezdal Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 So, whats the new fluff on Chapter organization, is it still vague like in old codex? How many GK are there supposed to be now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 So, whats the new fluff on Chapter organization, is it still vague like in old codex? How many GK are there supposed to be now? 1000. Same as (almost) every other Chapter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inache Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Yeah, the 1,000 is messed up. They should have stuck with 3,000. Made so much more sense. A chapter of 1,000 can barely cover their area of influence, so how are 1,000 GK's supposed to cover the galaxy? I'll be taking a pen to my copy of the codex. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Validar Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 This is while the vast majority of the Knights are dedicated to keeping the Eye of Terror from pouring into the imperium........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inache Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 This is while the vast majority of the Knights are dedicated to keeping the Eye of Terror from pouring into the imperium........... Is that how it's explained? Because I could see 2,000 GK's surrounding the myriad paths out of the Eye to contain it, but just retconning 2,000 GK's out of existence is a little much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Chapter size being 1000 was just so that they couldn't turn on the imperium again and mount a serious threat. This would hardly be an issue for the Grey Knights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmande Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Or because they had to be even more like Ultramarines :) At the rate they mention bringing in new recruits (practically streaming in from all corners of the galaxy all the time), even with the harsh training regimen I can't see the chapter neatly staying at 1,000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Yeah, the 1,000 is messed up. They should have stuck with 3,000. Made so much more sense. A chapter of 1,000 can barely cover their area of influence, so how are 1,000 GK's supposed to cover the galaxy? I'll be taking a pen to my copy of the codex. :lol: What was the source for the 3,000 number anyway? Was it in the old codex or IA article? I've seen it thrown around here in the forum a lot, but don't remember reading it myself from an original design studio source. V Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inache Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 You know, I don't know. There's nothing definitive in Daemonhunters besides that they don't follow the Codex Astartes at all. And after reading the IA article, I didn't find any reference to force size. It seems to be apocryphal. Hmm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Tezdal Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Well that's pretty stupid, only 1000 Grey Knights? When a daemon incursion can happen anywhere in the Galaxy.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justcar Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Well that's pretty stupid, only 1000 Grey Knights? When a daemon incursion can happen anywhere in the Galaxy.. I don't think that it makes up for it, but... In the new dex, GKs have an army of specialist psykers that predict daemonic incursions before they happen. They are called prognosticars. They monitor the warp for disturbances that would indicate a rift in the dimensional veil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Tezdal Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Well that's pretty stupid, only 1000 Grey Knights? When a daemon incursion can happen anywhere in the Galaxy.. I don't think that it makes up for it, but... In the new dex, GKs have an army of specialist psykers that predict daemonic incursions before they happen. They are called prognosticars. They monitor the warp for disturbances that would indicate a rift in the dimensional veil. Oh, like Farseers eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inache Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 They were piloting the Wraithlords they stole. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonofblood Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 I haven't seen this posted, but according to the new dex. It pretty much confirms that the Grey Knights use the Emperor's geneseed. Which if I recall was a "msyterious rumour" in the 3rd Ed codex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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