pchappel Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 Rule question about Sammael… I’d read somewhere that his Jetbike cannot join a unit of Ravenwing, is this correct? I would have thought that Jetbikes being a subset of “Bikes” (Yes, I play Wolves too, wording from the JoTWW FAQ ruling) he would be able to, though he’d lose some small benefits like ignore terrain during movement (and probably skilled rider?)… Found some of the ancient RT era jetbikes and though one could be converted and him with a squad would work out fairly well… Assuming it is legal of course… Sorry if I missed something obvious and thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherHostower Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 He can't join another unit because, under his rules, he doesn't have the independant character tag sadly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pchappel Posted February 15, 2011 Author Share Posted February 15, 2011 Wow, didn't even occur to me that he wouldn't be... Mkay, thanks much! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exsulis81 Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 that isn't the only thing he looses by not having the IC rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanhausen Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 What other things does he lose because he isn't an IC? Can't think of any... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gillyfish Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 The skilled rider rule - which all independent characters have as a matter of course. There's another one too, which I can't remember at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValourousHeart Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 The other would be move through cover... but as bikes (and jet bikes) always move up to their full movement but suffer dangerous terrain, move through cover wouldn't actually do anything anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanhausen Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 You can tell I don't use un-attached IC :) I did know about the move through cover though, a buddy surprised me in a game detaching his BA libby and assaulting a shooty dread... You guys are sharp :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HsojVvad Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 Now I am lost. Who has the skilled rider rule? I don't recall this rule at all in the DA codex. Infact I thought this was a complaint because it wasn't in the codex. So what am I not understanding? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breng77 Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 All independent Characters have skilled rider Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krewl Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 Yup. It used to be that ravenwing had the skilled rider rule (And a jink save) but that dissapeared from the codex in the current version. However a skilled rider rule does exist in the main rulebook and there it is given to all independent characters. As Sammael however is an individual and not an "independent character" he can not join units etc, but also can not claim the "move through cover" and "Skilled rider" special rules. So the ironic thing is that the DA FAQ tels us that characters (Librarian of Chaplain) on a bike are not part of the Ravenwing, yet they are the only ones who are skilled riders, while the master of the biker boys is not, as are his "born in the saddle" bikers. :P As they ARE independent characters they do get skilled rider (and move through cover but that doesn't do anything on bikes as said above.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HsojVvad Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 All independent Characters have skilled rider Is this in the BRB? I never remember reading this at all. Now I have to go find my BRB and check it out. Thanks for letting me know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breng77 Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 Yeah it is in the Independent character section, I believe it is called moving independent characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HsojVvad Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 Yeah it is in the Independent character section, I believe it is called moving independent characters. I found it, thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother_Darius Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 That is just absolutely nuts and something that will absolutely be fixed in the Unforgiven Codex, project being worked on in the development section Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Avoghai Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 That is just absolutely nuts and something that will absolutely be fixed in the Unforgiven Codex, project being worked on in the development section I don't think so... Actually GW surely didn't want the jetbike to join normal bike unit. + the LS version didn't have to be a IC. To compensate the fact that the jebike can now be targeted as any independant unit they gave him the Iron halo + the Admantine cloak so that he could survive the first unsaved lascannon shoot. If you want to bring back the IC status then you'll have to take the cloak off to compensate... Or raise the price but that way you could not switchLS/jetbike version anymore (which is something fine in the current version) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPK Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 That is just absolutely nuts and something that will absolutely be fixed in the Unforgiven Codex, project being worked on in the development section I don't think so... Actually GW surely didn't want the jetbike to join normal bike unit. + the LS version didn't have to be a IC. To compensate the fact that the jebike can now be targeted as any independant unit they gave him the Iron halo + the Admantine cloak so that he could survive the first unsaved lascannon shoot. If you want to bring back the IC status then you'll have to take the cloak off to compensate... Or raise the price but that way you could not switchLS/jetbike version anymore (which is something fine in the current version) Wait, are you saying that they couldn't make him an IC because of the Speeder option? Would it not have been simpler to give him IC status yet note that it only applied to the jetbike option? Or are you saying they might have had other reasons that a jetbike should not join the bike squad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValourousHeart Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 @ EPK, I am not sure any justifcation we might provide will be acceptable to you. But try this one from a model eye view. Bikes driving on the ground... Jetbike FLYING through the AIR. None of us like this, but from the model's view, it looks pretty clear. Also from a fluff perspective it also makes sense, as Samie is supposed to gather information about the fallen, avoid capture and report back to the inner circle. Not really possible if he is stuck with a unit that gets trapped. It was why in the 3rd codex MORW was the only member of DW that wasn't intractable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breng77 Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Well if they want to sell more sammi models, maybe he'll become the next mephiston/sanguinar, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPK Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 @ EPK, I am not sure any justifcation we might provide will be acceptable to you. But try this one from a model eye view. Bikes driving on the ground... Jetbike FLYING through the AIR. None of us like this, but from the model's view, it looks pretty clear. Also from a fluff perspective it also makes sense, as Samie is supposed to gather information about the fallen, avoid capture and report back to the inner circle. Not really possible if he is stuck with a unit that gets trapped. It was why in the 3rd codex MORW was the only member of DW that wasn't intractable. Both very acceptable reasons actually, the first didn't even cross my mind as far as rules go. The second fluffy reason I was not aware of but makes sense. A thought occurred to me - perhaps this could be a reason for a "jet bike honor guard" of some sort to accompany Sammie? Something like 2 Ravenwing Vets on jetbikes max. Just a thought. I know jetbikes are rare, so I wouldn't give them more than 2. I see a trio of Jetbikes in formation as quite an interesting unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freman Bloodglaive Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 They need a rule that they can fire plasma cannon and storm bolter at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValourousHeart Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 I think that RW rules should enable them to avoid CC, not dominate that phase. Perhaps a version of hit and run where they leave at the beginning of combat instead of at the end. I also think that any sort of body guard will just encourage using Sammie as a CC element. But as far as simple changes to Sammie that would better his CC ability, I suggest changing his twin stormbolter to 2 twin bolters. He would have the same shooting ability as he does currently at over 12" out, but under 12" and when he charges he would have 4 bolter shots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPK Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 I like that, a little buff to thin the enemy numbers if he does have to charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breng77 Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Personally I think all bikes should have hit and run. Just from a fluff stand point, these guys are zooming into combat bolt pistol/chainsword blazing, and then driving right on by. I always think it's silly that bikes can get locked in combat automatically, it seems like the guys drive up and then climb off their bikes to fight. I'd be fine if it was hit and run but they could only continue in the same direction of the charge to represent continuing momentum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPK Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Yea, I'm for hit and run as well. The bikers, especially as they are currently are are much too fragile to throw into assaults and get stuck. I'd be fine if it was hit and run but they could only continue in the same direction of the charge to represent continuing momentum. I suppose that's a nice balancing point, but they are expert riders after all, it's not outlandish to think they could cut to the right or left or even back the way they came if need be. The assault could simply representing them hitting the flanks of a unit anyway, so pulling away in any direction should be possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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