ancient god Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 Hey guys, I'm looking at this picture here: http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y254/ancientgod/Dark%20Angels/Ravenwing1_gross.jpg The tribal bands on his sword hilt and on the bike's handlebars are simply testaments to his origins, the Plains World I think. I guess he's either the company master or at least the company standard bearer. The power sword and heraldic pad reminiscent of the current Sammael model's make me think he's master. The standard seems a little big for personal heraldy and makes me think he might just be the standard bearer. I have no idea what the lightning bolts on his shin guard and left shoulder, around the chapter insignia, designate. I guess the crossed swords on the knee pad might be random decoration with no deeper meaning. Can any of you guys who date back to 2nd edition shed some light on these markings? I'd love to know what they meant, or if they meant anything, so that I can use them on my own Ravenwing. If you know of online resources on the matter, I'd appreciate those too. Thanks in advance and I hope that some of you can help me out! :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlauG Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 If I remember right, he;'s actually an Assault Marine rather than Ravenwing.... IIRC there's a colour version of that pic, and it's green, he makes up part of the Assault Reserve company's now-retconned biker contingent. No longer got Codex: AoD to check though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ancient god Posted February 20, 2011 Author Share Posted February 20, 2011 If I remember right, he;'s actually an Assault Marine rather than Ravenwing.... IIRC there's a colour version of that pic, and it's green, he makes up part of the Assault Reserve company's now-retconned biker contingent. No longer got Codex: AoD to check though. I have Angels of Death at home, I should have checked there first. Thanks for the heads up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlauG Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 No problem! Even if it's not in AoD, I am 100% certain that there's a colour version of this and they're Green. :whoops: It's annoying the hell out of me that I can;t remember what the crossed swords mean at the moment, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPK Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 Also, Isiah's site has these army insignia's listed: http://www.thedarkfortress.co.uk/librarium/army_insignia.htm I'm not sure where they are form, but I'm sure he does. Perhaps the bolts could be a reference a "long-range patrol detachment". Of course it's on the chapter badge and not it's own separate marking, so it's a stretch, but it does make sense for a bike squad to be used as such.. I've also seen lightning bolts on the left shoulder of old metal lightning claw terminators for what its worth around the crux. Could the crossed sword be an indication to a campaign/crusade? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ancient god Posted February 20, 2011 Author Share Posted February 20, 2011 EPK, I went through Isiah's index yesterday and found it very informative. I didn't recognise the source, though, so I'm not sure if the index is canon, and how old the info might be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodunius Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 Heres the colour pic, its from late RT not 2nd editon: http://cf.geekdo-images.com/images/pic401772.jpg Despite the green I believe they are in fact mean't to be Ravenwing - the banner has ravens on and there was no mention of Ravenwing having black armour until Codex: Angels of Death came out. Also Armies of the Imperium didn't give the DA non-Ravenwing bikes & speeders, it wasn't till Angels of Death they got them - tho in fact the evidence there was 2:1 against. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPK Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 Ah, here is what I meant by lightning bolts on the crux - http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/...dId=prod1400026 Perhaps this is assuming too much, but maybe they had represented power weapon wielders (doesn't account for old metal terminator sarge)? But the rest of that squad doesn't have them on the pad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ancient god Posted February 20, 2011 Author Share Posted February 20, 2011 Wow, Vodunius, thank you very much for the picture and the info. That puts things into perspective! <_< In that case I would go as far as to say that the markings might just as well have lost or changed meaning when the colour change occured in 2nd Ed? To cut to the chase - my goal is finding out which of these markings might be worn by whole RW squadrons, and which would be unique as they belong on a squadron leader, or only the banner, or only the master, or whatever. The picture looks like only the nearest biker has any of the extra shoulder markings. The knees and shins are not visible on the 2 other bikers. EPK, that sounds reasonable. GW has in the past used lightning to designate fast attack units, psyker units, power weapon bearers and force/tanks in general. So it might be any one of these or several combined... sometimes I wish I'd gotten into this hobby earlier, just to know all that old stuff now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Tyler Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 Crossed swords are an alternate badge for Assault Squads. Whether or not this convention is used by the Dark Angels/Ravenwing isn't certain, but that does mesh with GlauG's post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlauG Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 Brother Tyler, I thought that was the case but didn't want to say so without anything to back it up... I recall applying those markings to my old 2E metal DA Assault Marines, but then, I was young enough to be making a mistake in doing so. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Blaire Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 In addition to the Crossed Swords being an alternate Assault Squad marking, they also use the crossed swords pointed down as the chapter symbol for the Guardians of the Covenant (not that this has a bearing on AG's question). Personally, I am glad that GW is finally getting more details added to Marine kits, because in all the drawings for Marines in each Codex show them wearing rather ornate or ornamented armor, but most of the kits have been rather plain. AG, I say go nuts with the iconography, anything extra can only make it look that much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Belial Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 Something I have not seen mentioned is the lightning bolt on the leg being a campaign badge for the current theater. Campaign badges date back to the RT days as the metal DW came out just prior to 2nd Ed. I just dated myself with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandalphon Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 If my crusty brain serves me correctly i thought back in 2nd ed. lightning bolt was for fast attack.. so it kinda makes sense. Also, the lightning bolt transfer came with the bike kit and the crossed swords came on the DW transfer sheet, but you only got a few... some red, some black iirc.. so maybe it was to indicate rank. As far as being green goes, when they changed the DA from black to green between RT and 2nd ed would probably be where the biker's colourscheme came from. The RW were around back in RT (chapter approved jet bike company no.7) and were black, because all DA were black then.... then they were resurrected in angels of death as 2nd co. and came back.. in black... so im guess it was done in that hazy period pre-aod and post RT? back when our primarch was lovingly referred to as "Lynol Jacobsen or Jonsen" :) don't know if any of that helped tho ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ancient god Posted February 20, 2011 Author Share Posted February 20, 2011 Thank you for all the extra info, guys! I've really been wanting to paint some Ravenwing bikers since I noticed those markings. I've never had a weak spot for the marine bikes but I do indeed have one for armour markings. Off to the hobby cave! Or actually... off to bed and then to work and then home. But then, right off to the hobby cave! I don't know which smiley I should use here, I'm kind of confused myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darmor Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Here http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/...jsp?aId=5800004 The last page of campaign pack - "All of the Dark Angels in the Piscina IV campaign bear the crossed swords emblem on the right greave of their armour" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isiah Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Wow good sleuthing Darmor! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ancient god Posted February 21, 2011 Author Share Posted February 21, 2011 Awesome, thank you very much for that, Darmor! I wasn't aware of that campaign set either, so that's going to provide me with additional tidbits I bet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zincite Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 If I remember right, he;'s actually an Assault Marine rather than Ravenwing.... IIRC there's a colour version of that pic, and it's green, he makes up part of the Assault Reserve company's now-retconned biker contingent. No longer got Codex: AoD to check though. I have a White Dwarf (WD 155) where this was on the front cover, and he and his mates are green. The lightning bolts and knee pad are all yellow, and the banner is white. I doubt that anyone cares about that, but it did give me a small feeling of self-worth ^_^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayward Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 The lighting bolts were part of the Emperor's personal heraldry, or his pre unification faction's, or were that of the empire in his beginnings, cant remember wich one of this one was... Anyway, its old fluff, maybe it isnt so anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkseer Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 The lightning bolts are still there and associated with the Emperor. Look at the storm shields and thunderhammers. Look at the Razorback transfer sheet. Look at Tyberos The Red Wake's chest armour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ancient god Posted February 21, 2011 Author Share Posted February 21, 2011 I had a proper look at that campaign PDF just now and found another crossed sword knee marking. http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y254/ancientgod/Dark%20Angels/Untitled-1.jpg This doesn't look like it's the Piscina IV campaign badge as it's on a knee pad, and only on the sergeant's knee pad at that. I think I'll use them randomly like I use blood drop honour badges on my BA. On a side note - anyone notice the square holes on the bolter muzzles? Haven't seen that before... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandalphon Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 hmm funnily enough, i drew this a while back and look where the crossed sword is! :cuss it was done without reference so something must have told me 'crossed sword on right knee looks cool'. as for the square/ rectangular bolter nozzle.. if thats where empty shells are being dispensed it makes sense..otherwise i'd say it was artistic license ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Neo Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 the bolter sheels are dispensed, the same as any rifle, from the body of the rifle itself. holes in muzzles are flare and stability for the ejection of a round to keep it straight and true to the target Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Uriah Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Hmm. I'd always figured the crossed swords were a reference to the Piscina Campaign (many of my 3rd Company are marked with it, as veterans of the campaign). Even my TDA-armoured Belial has them painted on his left greave, as he is no longer in the 3rd Company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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