Just played my 46th draigo wing game

[breng77]

I'm pretty sure stright Draigo win is just about auto lose at 500 points you get

 

Draigo

 

2 x 2 Paladins (one with something master crafted)

 

This list just about auto loses as soon as it runs into 2 melta guns or lascannons, or a vindicator.

 

You could do a little better by taking 2 Paladins and a 5 man strike squad with a psycannon, but it would still be pretty poor.

 

The problem being that you have no shooting to speak of and not enough attacks to win against horde armies. Sure Draigo is strong, but he will still lose to tons of attacks.

 

Orks at 500 points for example can run a Big mek with a power claw and 60 boyz, and just walk through your army. You simply would not have enough attacks for it to matter. It is likely they could use one squad to tie your army up all game if not kill it, sit on an objective with the other and win.

[jhrovii]

Just curious...

 

What is everyone's 500pt Draigowing list? :)

It's funny you should mention that (even if intended to be tongue and cheek).

Oh I'm completely serious. I've got a box of old GK termies I've been dying to use. Cheapest 500pt army ever.

 

You know what I like most about it? Practically no movement phase. As a green tide player myself, I might field them for exactly this reason. :) You ever moved 100 orks for 5 hours straight? I was begging my opponent to kill them.

[nurglez]

How about, Draigo and 4x1 paladins? Close range and that's 4 holocausts you can throw out, though you lack will ranged anti tank....

I still take ages to move my paladins, its having to decide what to do with such few units, of course once I've decided my movement turn doesn't last very long :P

Oh, and here's some better pictures of my paladins, received them today and am very happy with them ;)

Good photography, shame about the editing ;)

 

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c397/nurglez/Palliespainted.jpg

 

I rather like the falchion guy ;)

 

Edited to add stuffs instead of triple posting

[kleve920]

So after failing with mordrak over and over again I went on the search for soemthign else... I found you guys, when I orginally started warhammer a few months back the first thing I bought was an NDK, draigo, 5 GK, and 5 GKT, along with the codex. Not knowing how to play at all draigo looked cool but people told me he was to expensive. He was put on the shelf and forgotten about while I built an army based around Mordrak. Trying to do Mordrak 1st turn in your face with Dk's failed miserable, although I'm sure me being a noobie didn't help much.

 

So I ran Draigowing for the first time last night, same basic set up as Nurglez and Zag, thanks guys! I had a vindicare in there as he has been in all my armies but he failed to impress me... I played my best friends Necrons, wasn't going great at all and then we realized he was playing 2500 points vs my 2000... I ended up making it a draw with draigo, 1 pally, and 1 NDK left. It was a crazy mission he got out of the battle missions book. So for once at least I didn't loose! Next game I played was against blood angels, LRC, Death Company, 2 squads of jumpers, 2 ball predators, and 1 squad of missle launchers and a plasma gun, was nervous about these guys. Dawn of War, 3 objectives, I placed two as close to eachother as possible in cover for my 10 man squad to sit on. I screwed up off the bat and deployed draigo and the pally's without the libby who walked on with the other 5 pally's. Anyhow I got charged by his death company and squad of 10 jumpers right away. Suprisingly I mulched them up quick and he was very dissapointed. Then with some great shooting he took most of that squad out. toward the end the PT DK shunted for an objective and killed a ball predator, 1 objective to me, 1 lone pally sat on an objective with a non PT Dk standing in front, he was unable to get his jumpers through the NDK which killed his whole squad. 2 objectives to me. I had my 5 man squad on the final objective and couldn't kill the dreadnought of his contesting it for the life of me, bad pen and glance rolls. Anyhow I ended up winning 2-0 and was very happy. Gonna have to replace the assassin though, maybe a dreadnought or PT on the other DK.

Kinda a crummy battle report but I'm at work and don't have a ton of time to type, GL at your tourny Nurg!

[nurglez]

I wont be the only draigo wing player there..... 4 GK players total, and alloyslayer is coming along with his... Would be rather interesting if we ended up playing each other :lol:

 

Glad to hear you are doing well kleve920, I do rather like having as few models as possible. 18 models at 1750 points is just too fun, until it all goes wrong...

[Ranting Fool]

Orks at 500 points for example can run a Big mek with a power claw and 60 boyz, and just walk through your army. You simply would not have enough attacks for it to matter. It is likely they could use one squad to tie your army up all game if not kill it, sit on an objective with the other and win.

 

This is the reason I've started putting all my Orks in Battle Wagons / Trukks, takes too long to move the Green Gits. That and Nurglez WHOLE army is in one tiny little box... I've been really very tempted to join the ranks of power armoured killers but I think I might just hold out for the Necron Codex... Orkrons will rule all B)

 

@Nurglez, since you just text me your win you'll have to change the thread to 21st Draigo Wing Game but then beating a 12 year old should count :D ^_^

[nurglez]

Right, played in a small (22 players) 4 game one day tournament today. The return of kthulu! I went with Commander Sasha and RebG, Ranting Fool bailed because he was scared, or stuck in bed being ill, one of the two ;)

 

I took Draigo, 10 paladins with 4 psycannons (2 MCed), 2 hammers 2 swords 1 falchion rest halberds (some MCed stuff for full wound allocation). 5 paladins with 2 psycannons and 1 hammer, 1 sword and halberds with 1 MC, 1 DK with PT HI and 1 DK with PT HI GS, for 1750 points.

 

Just some quick battle reports, as I didn't take any pictures at all due to it being my first ever tournament and stuffs...

 

Game 1, pitched battle capture and control.

vs chaos (typhus, some termies, chosen, dread, 2x10 chaos marines, 5 thousand sons, 1 oblit, 1 defiler and 1 vindicator). With no transports, this list didn't do very well, was a very nice chappy (rather young guy who won the coveted wooden spoon for losing all 4 games but stayed happy throughout it all and was a great sport). He conceded on his 4th turn as I had wiped out all his troops and my 10 man squad was happily sitting on my objective, giving me a win and full victory points, putting me on to the "top table".

 

Game 2, spear head seize ground (3 objectives).

vs tyranids (tyrant, 2 tyrant guard, 2 hive guard, 3 zoanthropes, doom in a spore, 2x30 hormagaunts, 2x3 warriors and a Trygon prime). I rather foolishly decided to give my DK's reroll wounds of 1's instead of scoring, and didn't combat squad. By the end of turn 6 I had 5 slightly wounded paladin's on one objective, 2 out of the 10 paladins on the central one, and my surviving DK sitting on the one in his objective, with only a mycetic spore remaining from his army (I had forgotten to shoot it, eager to assault the warriors on his objective).

 

Game 3, dawn of war annihilation.

vs Draigo wing (draigo, tooled out libby, 2x5 paladins with 2 psycannons, apoth, warding stave, hammer, banner and 2 halberds, 2xDK with HI's). This game was both interesting and boring. Having never played against draigo wing before, let alone with a draigo wing, this game revolved around shooting each other a lot, and saving most of the wounds. I won 3 kill points to 2 when the game ended on the 5th turn, we had both lost our DK's and my draigo had helped finish off a wounded 5man paladin squad. Very much like a dance of the death, only with more dancing then death...

 

Game 4, pitched battle 1 objective/annihilation (special mission, you nominate 1 hq in your force, he/she/it is the champion, and is the only one who can claim the objective, if no one claims the objective it goes to kill points, and the enemy champion is worth 2 if killed).

vs space wolves (2rune priests (jaws+something, living lightning+murderous hurricane, 7 hunters with wg in a drop pod, 5 hunters with wg in twin las razor back, 7 hunters in a rhino, 5 hunters with wg in a rhino, 2x6 longfangs with 5 missiles in las plas razor backs, 1 asscannon heavy flamer dread, 1 asscannon twin auto dread, 2x1 landspeeder typhoon). Draigo got jaws'ed a few times, but I didn't lose him, and I slowly killed things while the luck has abandoned my opponent. took him 3 turns of long range fire to kill 1 of my DK's, and by the end of the 5th turn he had no rune priest's left, while I had draigo on the objective and had about 12 kill points to his 2.

 

I took home the prize, a space wolf battleforce box set, not getting off the top table after getting on it in round 2. both of the first 2 players had bad match up's in fighting me, and the other draigo wing was too non aggressive (we were both scared of being charged, but I managed to focus all my fire on his 5man squad, libby and 2dk's while he was spreading his around my 2 squads, letting me eventually grind him down). Apothecaries are damn annoying when you are relying on rending hits, especially with a libby along for shrouding. And the space wolf player had rather bad luck, the amount of 1's and 2's he rolled for hitting with missiles and lascannons was shocking, but he was a rather good natured guy. All 4 games I ended up going second, just how I like it :)

 

There were a total of 3 Draigo wing armies out of the 22 there, so we were getting a lot of flak about being over powered (one poor chaos player had 2 games against draigo wing, including the 4th game where from the second turn on draigo and 10 paladin's were sat on the objective...).

 

Also fighting against apothecaries has given me a bit more respect for them (I still will rarely use one due to the cost), it is very, very demoralising to see those eventual wound's that got through the terminator armour being ignored, almost enough to make me switch my fire priority. MC'ed psycannon's did help, and I will be sure to focus on buying these more often.

 

quick question, if you had a 10man with 4 psycannons and 6 storm bolters, would you spend 20 points upgrading to MCed psycannons or would you get psybolts?

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Well done.

 

;)

 

G :blink:

[cadaver2k]

@nurglez, congrats on win! I would and do take MC psycannons on my pallies over Psybolts. Out of 8 shots I always seem to get in about 7 of them, and the more that hit make more that can rend.

[greatcrusade08]

i agree on the master crafting, 5pts per is too good to pass up, plus with the S7? anyway your wounding most on a 2+ and a rending only happens on a 6 regardless if you have the extra strength or not.

 

onto the torunament, congrats, very well played.. out of the 3 draigwings you were definately the better player, which is IMO why you won all your games and why the others didnt.. they both had capable armies that were tough to beat (ill save my moaning for the relevant thread ;) ) but i have to cast doubts on the 'opinion' that draigowing is a point and click army, there are some tactical nuances that make for better results.

ive always been of the opinion that apoths are worth including in larger units (despite some quite rude repsonses about my ability to speak to that.. you know who you are) but its always a question of finding the points.

we had a few discussions about army make up yesterday, and i know you would rather field the teleporters on your NDKs than take apoths or librarians, but the librarians are definately worthwhile inclusions, especially given thier force multipling abilities (i forget the names of the powers).. i guess it comes down to finding points and personal preference.. personally id rather face a draigowing army without a librabrian, it allows for a more direct counter to the 2+/5++ 2 wound statlines without all the special rules getting in the way.

 

also from watching the games (and playing when my sub walked away from the table in disgust) i definately think having draigo with a larger ten man squadis the way to go, im not too sure if id ever combat squad them tbh.. if i saw a small 5 man pally squad without draigo in id be all over it.. but that larger ten man squad with draigo adds a 'fear' element, and the majority of melta/lascannon shots find themselves pinging off draigos storm shield, and as you say those 4 psycannons smash face real good.

also wound allocation works to your advantage better over a larger unit (obvious), in my game with the smaller 5 man unit sans draigo, i was easily causing 4 or 5 wounds at a time, and i found both his halberds died almost straight away, theres no way of knowing which wouns will roll ones and which wont..

i always hear that a pally unit can take one wound each and still be viable, but in practice thats not quite how it works.. on the bogger uniots though you get that extra element of control.. it doesnt remove luck entirely and what i described could still happen, but its less likely

 

edit: i may have a few pics, ill sort through them this evening and send you the link

[nurglez]

I agree that a Libby is well worth the points as a force multiplier. Especially playing against one. With wound allocation, it is a bit to do with skill and luck where you put the wounds, what army I'm fighting against will determine where I put what wounds. If I am aiming to shoot loads, I'll happily take all the wounds on my storm bolter guys and even draigo, just so I can keep shooting my psycannons, while if I think it will be settled in combat I will sacrifice paladin's to ensure Draigo makes it there. I'm generally quite good with wound allocation, as I used to play logan wing where generally each squad was unique equipped (though it is strange that after being hit by a few meltagun's from a squad, you hope to get more regular wounds... wound allocation abuse is a necessary evil).

 

I like my 2 DK's, having two monstrous creatures with personal teleporters gives me speed, and though I rarely used them as a team, they were good as one. They give me the option to keep them back and contest objecties later, or send them forward to kill certain units/distract my opponent from my paladins.

 

The whole subject of apothecaries being worth it or not really depends on the list I feel, as I said above, it is very demoralising to shoot normal shots at a squad and have the few 1's ignored, but on the other hand, I had a 10man squad and a 5 man squad to absorb the shooting he had, while he only had 2 5 man squads. Having constant luck helped me quite a bit too, though I didn't play any really fast armies, and having only 3 objectives in seize ground game helped (though as I wiped out the poor nids apart from the spore it probably wouldn't have made much difference..).

[Ranting Fool]

One thing I do find slightly odd is in the top 5 there is

Nurglez Gray Knights

Black Templar (Never seen them or even read the codex)

Nids

Nids (Commander Sasha's)

Blood Angles

(I've always heard complaints that after the nid codex was faq'ed they tended to be at a disadvantage, that and never having inv saves)

 

Out of 20 players 15 Power Armour guys. Since there was another drago wing and another GK army (Any idea what that guys set up was?) I was expecting more GK's in the top 5 (tho they did place 7th and 9th)

 

Did the Rune Priests stop you much or did they die out of range? as your GK psy abilities are a right pain in the arse and I would think that being countered on a 4+ might hinder you a bit. That and I assumed that Wolves would have had a lot better range and fire over you would have done better.

 

Big Grats though :P

[nurglez]

The other GK army was another Draigo wing. The rune priest's didn't effect me as in that game there was only 1 combat (between my 2 dk's and a drop pod squad), so I didn't cast any psychic powers. it was mainly a shooting game, where my psycannon's really messed up anything they shot (generally).

 

Also the space wolf player had quite a few missile's, but not that many lascannons, and they were generally shot one at a time (due to having a single lascannon on a razorback), which let me put it on draigo if he targeted the squad (though his luck was rather bad with his shooting).

[greatcrusade08]

Also the space wolf player had quite a few missile's, but not that many lascannons, and they were generally shot one at a time (due to having a single lascannon on a razorback), which let me put it on draigo if he targeted the squad (though his luck was rather bad with his shooting).

 

yeah i noticed that from my vantage point, on paper we looked at his army and thought he could give you a good game, but in practice, units with only one heavy like a razorback for example is going to ping off the storm shield.. you need lots of high Strength AP1/2 weapons firing at the same time to force wounds onto other guys.

i stand by my assessment that he shopuld have targetted the ML fangs at your pallies instead of going for your NDKS.. those four wounds it takes to kill one would have meant 4 dead paladins (maybe), and NDKs are doable in assault..

 

just my 0.02

[Ranting Fool]

Also the space wolf player had quite a few missile's, but not that many lascannons, and they were generally shot one at a time (due to having a single lascannon on a razorback), which let me put it on draigo if he targeted the squad (though his luck was rather bad with his shooting).

 

Which is what I found when I used Kanz with KMB's. Would shoot 3 but mostly only wound with 1 which you would take on a Stormshield / Drago and 3+ can just be depressing at times. I was thinking that maybe 45+ lootas might have more luck againts you..... foot sloging shoota boyz, lootas, grots so you can't charge/teleport too near/Maybe a Shorkk Attack Gun and just hide in a corner and hope that forcing you to role 1423523542 saves you might fail a few :P That said maybe Burna Boyz, 12 templates covering most your pally squad has a chance of causing a nice chunk of damage. Still though I find Draigo wings or pure termie armies really hard to deal with unless you have a silly amount of anti tank / ap2 guns.

[nurglez]

onto the torunament, congrats, very well played.. out of the 3 draigwings you were definately the better player, which is IMO why you won all your games and why the others didnt.. they both had capable armies that were tough to beat (ill save my moaning for the relevant thread ;) ) but i have to cast doubts on the 'opinion' that draigowing is a point and click army, there are some tactical nuances that make for better results.

 

QFT heh, I might have to siggy that :P

[Zagman]

Very well done. Especially winning the shooting match vs the other DriagoWing player. Did you attempt to bait him into charging you? Maybe with a DK, or moving your squads 11.5" away to bank on Sanctuary?

 

Having an Apoth in that unit would be absolutely nasty for you to have to deal with and about the best points he could have spent in that situation. I stand my my argument that the Apoth is just not worth it for an all comers list, but against a list with absolutely no S8+ firepower, its golden. Situationally amazing.

[nurglez]

I killed both his dks, then baited him with one of mine. I should have just backed off after getting 2 kp ahead, as baiting and trying to get a 3rd cost me 2 kp's... I didn't Have a libby, but I didn't cast many abilities and Draigo force weaponed one of his dk's.

 

Yes apothecaries are Damn annoying when you don't Have any str 8 weapons....

[Crynn]

Well done Nurglez! I just one a 22 player no comp tounrament with my paladin list as well! I'm putting up the bat reps along side my others here. http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...50&start=50

 

I must say, in a couple of games I wish I had taken draigo instead of a GM with all the grenades however in the last the grenades were more usefull and countless times before that, they are both so needed and it's so hard to go without one!

 

Regards,

Crynn

[jhrovii]

I need ya'lls advice.

 

Long story short, I got rid of a lot of my old GK army. Right now I only got about 2k pts worth, mostly tied up in "toys." For an upcoming 1850 tourney, I'm thinking of running Draigowing... But what should I take besides the Draigo/Libby/Ten-Pally Deathstar? I was thinking 10 Strikes at least... I'd probably have a ballpark 400pts left.

 

Stormraven? Landraider? Dreadknight? VenDread? I have too many toys.... :unsure:

[thade]

This is a quibble over terminology, but a "Driago Wing" means virtually all of your infantry are Paladins. So if you want to run it, it's 10 Paladins in one squad plus as many Paladins as you can afford in the other. <3

 

If you want to know what accompanies a Deathstar in non-Draigo Wings (which seems to be your goal :) ) Strikes are perfectly fine. Take some psyriflemen Dreads and/or a Dreadknight or two. Consider a temple assassin: Vindicare being the popular choice.

[jhrovii]

I have Draigo and 2/3 of my force invested in Paladins. Fine, I'm not Draigowing. Blackmoor's not Draigowing. Only YOU are Draigowing.

 

:huh:

[nurglez]

If you are only bringing one squad of paladins, you may consider taking a normal gm, as he will be able to take all the funky grenades and such. I too consider "draigo wing" to mean Draigo and paladins as troops, but you "other" Draigo users are still welcome here :huh:

 

On to the subject of what to take for support, this is totally up to you, both dreads and dks work well, a libby is very useful as you also suggested. The world is your oyster, so to speak :)

[thade]

I have Draigo and 2/3 of my force invested in Paladins. Fine, I'm not Draigowing. Blackmoor's not Draigowing. Only YOU are Draigowing.

 

:teehee:

Deathwing (the namesake) is only Dark Angel Terminators.

 

Wolfwing is only Wolfguard Terminators.

 

Just saying we should keep the trend up. <3

 

Your face is upside down there. @_@

[Fred Johnson the 3rd jr]

Few, I am so relieved now that we got the terminology settled. That was keeping me up at night. :teehee:

 

Anywhoo, I had a silly Draiowing idea. Anyone field both Psyfleman Dreads and DKs? Heck even at 1500 you can do it:

 

Driago

5 Paladins, 2 Psycannons

5 Paladins, 2 Psycannons

 

2 Psybolt Dreads

1 DK w/ teleporter and Heavy Incinerator.

 

Ok idea, or just crazy?