Just played my 46th draigo wing game

[SirDuck13]

Alright, I've finally caught up with this thread's history and tried out my first Draigo wing game tonight. It was a miserable failure. Not because of the list, or my tactics, but because of my rolls. I'm not even exaggerating when I say I literally failed 75% of all of my saves. 2+ armor, 3+ Invuln, 4+ cover... It didn't mater. I failed them all with equal ease. Mater of fact, I failed more 2+ armor saves (Both percentage wise, and raw numbers) than I did invuln and cover saves. For instance, Driago failed 4/5 saves and died in turn 2. It was ugly...

 

So anyway, I'm not giving up just yet. I'm not even considering this a legit play testing round.

 

With all of the negative stuff said, here's what I was running.

 

Draigo

 

Ordo Xenos Inquisitor

-Power Armor

-Servo Skulls x2

-Power Sword

-Combi-melta

-Rad Grenades

 

Paladins x10

-Psycannons x4

-Halberds x7 (some MCd for wounds shenanigans)

-Hammers x2

-Sword x1

 

Paladins x5

-Psycannons x2

-Halberds x4 (some MCd for wounds)

-Hammer x1

 

Vindicare Assassin

 

Dreadknight

-Personal Teleporter

-Heavy Incinerator

-Greatsword

 

Dreadknight

-Personal Teleporter

-Heavy Incinerator

-Greatsword

 

 

His list was a purely terrible matchup... IG chimelta vet spam.

 

Company Command Squad

Commander

-Plasma Pistol, melta-bombs

-Plasma guns x4

 

Chi-metla vet squads x5

-Meltaguns x3

-Demolitions

-Shotguns x7

 

Vendetta x3

-Heavy Bolter sponsons on all

 

Leman Russ Battle Tank

-Heavy flamer on hull

 

Leman Russ Demolisher x2

-Heavy flamer on hull

 

We rolled Capture and Control, Pitched Battle. There was the appropriate 25% terrain coverage that was fairly well distributed along the whole table. He rolled to go first and set up almost entirely on one half of his deployment zone. I deployed opposite him. His Vendettas were off to the opposite flank. I set my vindicare in a piece of area terrain where he could see the 3 Leman Russ tanks that were positioned at the front of his lines. I deployed my servo skulls to prevent him from outflanking me with the vendettas along the far board edge and to keep most of his army in front of me. My big squad was set up between two pieces of area terrain with enough on each edge touching them to be in cover. My smaller squad did the same on the opposite side. I gave my two NDKs scout and scout moved one forward 12", putting the other in reserves for later.

 

Turn 1.

This was a fairly even turn. I lost 3 wounds off of Draigo and I think one paladin to a lascannon hit. The big squad also lost 2 paladins to instant death from the combined shooting of the vendettas and the demolishers. I lost the vindicare to focused fire and I lost 3 wounds off of my NDK that moved up-field towards his lines. He also managed to pick a guy out of the 5 man squad with his Battle Cannon. My responce was to pop a transport that had his command squad in it, immobilized a Demolisher and immobilized the Battle Tank as well as taking it's turret in assault, and shot the other Demolisher with psycannons from the large squad, popping it.

 

Turn 2.

This is where things started to get ugly. He finished of Draigo, my NDK, and started to really peel wounds and models off of my Paladin squads. He moved up 3 squads in their Chimeras towards my position. He dropped out two squads focused on my smaller squad of men, and 1 squad on the large squad. The shooting from those killed three guys from the small squad, reducing it to one man with a Psycannon. The shooting from two vendettas and the third squad, as well as some multi-laser shots finished Draigo and reduced the paladins to 3 psycannons and the Inquisitor. My response was limited. I shot and assaulted the squad that was close to the remains of the 10 man squad. I routed them in the CC bit of the turn, and consolidated back into cover. 1 lived and managed to run away (he would go on to regroup, thanks to the Company Commander being along his path to the edge of the board). I also assaulted the one remaining man from the 5 man squad into the two squads of vets that he had shot me to pieces with. There were no wounds inflicted on either side.

 

Turn 3.

More of the same pain... I lost two more paladins from the big squad to vendetta fire, but the inquisitor and his lone psycannon toting friend wouldn't go down for anything. The combat with the lone paladin on the other end of the battle raged on and I won combat by 1, causing the previously damaged vet squad to break and run (they would also regroup thanks to the company commander being between them and their board edge). The other squad stayed put and we remained in CC. My side of the turn came around and I rolled in my remaining NDK. He outflanked to the correct side and came in at the backfield behind his remaining two chimelta squads that were camping his objective. I shot the incinerator and got no luck on either of the two chimeras' side armor. I assaulted it and tried to take down one of them. I failed... Even with rerolls, I got no results. The last paladin finally took out enough guardsmen to cause the remaining squad to break (It regrouped and turned itself around). He consolidated towards my objective.

 

Turn 4.

He finished me off with shooting. I'd go into more detail than that, but with only 4 models left on the table and the bulk of his army still in place, I don't think it's really necessary.

 

So... Yeah... That didn't go well for me at all. I'm not giving up on the list just yet, but I don't think it's going to work in my local playgroup. Not because Its a bad list or anything, but because my local environment is dominated by the list I played against tonight. I also don't think this was a very good showing for the list I had put together due in no fault of its own. My dice failed me so hard it was painful to watch. So I'm going to give it another go or two and see what happens. The guy I played against is really the only competent player in my local group and he and I are prone to slugfests anyway, so it'd be nice to actually put up a fight next time.

 

Suggestions are welcome, but here's what I'm thinking about.

I'm dropping the assassin and the Inquisitor to add a libby and an apothacary to the 10 man squad. I'm also planning to run in my two NDKs as a team instead of running one in as a suicide distraction and the other outflanking. Splitting them up like that was a bad plan. I'm dropping the vindicare because I don't think his tactics aren't going to help me much unless I go first. Any other suggestions, ideas, tactics and thoughts are more than welcome. I'd love to not have this massacre occur again.

 

SD13

[nurglez]

The main problem with running such a low model count list is when your saves fail you, you lose a higher percentage of your list. I've had games where Draigo forgets to switch his shield on too, sucks heh.

 

A libby can be a very nice addition. I'm guessing you are playing at 1750 points, I've never used an apothecary yet, and still done quite well (check my win/draw/loss ratio :D ).

 

I actually make an effort not to use a libby, because I consider them rather over powered vs certain lists. Might of Titans, sanctuary and shrouding are really powerful spells.

 

Dk's need to be run as a pair, otherwise they die quickly. You can use 1 to give the second a cover save, and can also give your paladins cover saves in the open by putting a dk or 2 in front of them.

 

The main thing that also needs to be learnt, is how to prioritize targeting, as you can only affect a few enemy units each turn.

 

Keep trying and I'm sure you will do better next time, Draigo wing isn't the auto win some people think it is :D

[SirDuck13]

I wasn't expecting it to be an easy fight by any means and I'm not giving up yet. We play 2000 pts. Yeah, I'm gonna try to run them more closely linked and I think swapping out the other stuff for a libby with Sanctuary, Might of Titan, and Shrouding, as well as an apothacary for the 10 man squad is gonna be my first step. I was just disappointed and frustrated that my saves in my first game were that far below par. As I said, I'm not even going to count that game as a real playtest. It was just so out of the ordinary as far as die rolling went that I don't think I could learn a lot from how to change much other than the obvious stuff from the first turn, which was to drop the Vindicare for something more survivable and over the course of the game, the pair of NDK running together will probably preform better and do their job more reliably than one by one. Thanks for the insight though and really, it was because of you and Zagman's results that I wanted to try the army at all. I'm usually anti-elite lists, but I thought this one might be fun to try and more reliable than others.

 

SD13

[nurglez]

I'm still not sold on apothecary's, but I must admit I would like to try one out, I just cant spare the points. Would much rather have s teleporter, or pretty much anything else.

 

A libby is nice, I like the expensive version, warding stave, might, sanctuary, shrouding, summoning, warp rift, 3 servo skulls and brain mines.

 

Have you considered a dread? I'm generally the first one to support DK's over dreads, but they do have their place.

 

My new list idea is for 1750

 

Draigo

Inquisitor, terminator armour, psycannon, 3 servo skulls

10 paladins, 4 psycannon's, 2 swords 2 hammers, 6 halberds and a smattering of MCed weapons.

2 lone paladins, 1 with a hammer

Venerable Psyrifle dread

Dk heavy incinerator

Dk heavy incinerator, great sword, personal teleporter.

 

Still yet to try it out, am still assembling the contemptor, I've sprayed it army painter silver so far :)

[SirDuck13]

Alright, I have to vent a little about my weekend of gaming. There's more good than bad, but at the same time, I found it frustrating.

 

I played three more games after the initial trouncing I received over the week. I played two with 2000 points of Draigowing. I had changed up my list a little to include a librarian and ended up dropping the inquisitor and vindicare to make room for him. This allowed me to pack in some extra MC weapons for wound allocation. I didn't end up having the points for the Apothecary, but I don't really think it's necessary. He played the same IG list as before.

 

We played two more games, one Capture and Control, one with 5 objectives. I won both of them. And despite these being the first 1v1 games that I've defeated this particular opponent, it felt distasteful. I'm not saying that Draigo is over powered or anything, or even that it's a great list. I'm a moderatlly skilled player, and I wouldn't call either of these games "push-button" wins. With that said, I had almost no fun playing them. His turns took twice as long as mine, were half as effective and the pace of the game was dull to me. Then again, I typically play a very aggressive BA RAS army with stormravens. It's a fun list in that I can just charge in and blend my army to a nice runny frape without worries for how many guys I lose along the way, and even losing is fun. I don't know if its just personal taste, or if its the way the two wins went, but it just seems like a lackluster army to field.

 

Nurgle, I can totally see why you pick dreadknights over psyrifle men. If I'd have been playing with dreads instead of knights, I'd have been even more bored during my games. That being said, the wins would have been much easier with the riflemen. The dreadknights really did create the only excitement I had in the three games and I wouldn't trade that fun for easier wins.

 

Basically, I guess I just used up a lot of space to bid my farewell to the Draigowing ranks. I don't hold this list against you guys or even think its OP as some of the other guys seem to think. I just found it pretty dull to field. So, I guess its back to the drawing board for me.

 

SD13

[Zagman]

SirDuck13

 

Your first problem was playing a competitive IG list, they aren't much fun to play against no matter who you are. His list is boring, and the way you beat it isn't going to be very exciting. Try playing some other opponents before you come to that conclusion.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Wise words from brother Zagman. You are playing against one of the most nasty armies. You're opponent probably knows every trick in the book for IG (and there are many) while you are just starting your new army. IG is a tough matchup for Draigowing. If you play him again ask him to play a killpoint mission - that is where Draigowing can really shine. Don't give up on your army ! Draigowing has been one of the most fun armies I have played in fifth edition - I'm sure you will get the hang of it in no time. ^_^

 

G ;)

[nurglez]

I too would suggest playing vs some other armies. I had 1 really Boring game at throne of skulls, but had 4 awesome games there too. Sometimes in order to win you have to play boring.

 

Another reason I like dk's is because they add something different. Although Psyrifle dreads are just so over powered vs most armies, I can see why a lot of people use them.

[Meatman]

Although Psyrifle dreads are just so over powered vs most armies, I can see why a lot of people use them.

 

Yeah, well, riflemen were so underused in C:SM, they had to buff them so that SOMEONE would use them. Now that they ignore 1/3 of the damage results and +1 strength, they're almost usable :)

[nurglez]

135 points for 4 twinlinked bs4 str 8 shots. Not bad indeed, its why the one im aiming on using will be a venerable :cuss

[SirDuck13]

So, I've played another batch of games over the weekend and used Draigowing for one vs. a rather nasty Dark Eldar army that I was sure would own me. He had something like 32 darklight weapons. I was sure they would make the game easy for him. Also, we rolled randomly for game type and deployment. He landed his perfect match against me for the tactic he was using. We got 5 objectives and pitched battle. He kept everything in reserve and tried to out maneuver me with his fast vehicles. The downside was that it gave me two turns to run out and get into position on 4/5 of the objectives with my two squads and place my PT equipped Dreadknights in good reactionary positions. When he finally did show up, he got some good reserve rolls and half of his army showed up. They only managed to put one wound on one paladin. Then in my turn to react, my DreadKnights managed to take down two squads the combined fire of my Paladin squads managed to take out a transport and another squad. The rest of the game, I killed things a little slower. He took down my Knights pretty quick after seeing what they would do if left alone. Other than that, he couldn't shift me off of the objectives, even with so many dark light weapons. I managed to hold out for the 3 turns of shooting and only lost the two Dreadknights, Draigo (finally died on turn 5), and maybe 3 other paladins. Easy victory, 4-0 on objectives.

 

After playing that game, I'm still not sold on it. It was better than playing against the IG, but not much. I just don't think this is the army for me. It plays out to be very stationary. In most games it feels like you'll be letting your opponent come to you, especially in objective matches. If he'd have played with everything on the table from turn 1, I doubt it would have been such an easy battle. I think the biggest decider in this army and something that I'd recommend to anyone thinking about running Driagowing is to play with a librarian with Sanctuary. It really offsets the low AP/high strength weapons that some armies can bear down with.

 

Tactically, it's amazing the amount of ground a 10 man paladin squad with the two ICs attached can cover. With that amount of space, its fairly easy to make sure that they get a cover save and still take a ton of space on the battlefield. Good advice for deployment in my mind is to keep the ICs near the middle of the spread out mob, with the 4 Psycannon guys split up on the ends. It makes a huge squad that can cover a ton of space, and put out some pretty respectable pain. If I were playing more serious games or in tournaments, I would definitely replace my two DreadKnights with some Psyrifle dreads for the extra long range punch and durability. Fortitude, extra armor, and Venerable rules combined would make them nearly unstoppable.

 

So, that's me checking in with my most recent and interesting match to date with this army.

 

SD13

[Crynn]

So, I've played another batch of games over the weekend and used Draigowing for one vs. a rather nasty Dark Eldar army that I was sure would own me. He had something like 32 darklight weapons. I was sure they would make the game easy for him. Also, we rolled randomly for game type and deployment. He landed his perfect match against me for the tactic he was using. We got 5 objectives and pitched battle. He kept everything in reserve and tried to out maneuver me with his fast vehicles. The downside was that it gave me two turns to run out and get into position on 4/5 of the objectives with my two squads and place my PT equipped Dreadknights in good reactionary positions. When he finally did show up, he got some good reserve rolls and half of his army showed up. They only managed to put one wound on one paladin. Then in my turn to react, my DreadKnights managed to take down two squads the combined fire of my Paladin squads managed to take out a transport and another squad. The rest of the game, I killed things a little slower. He took down my Knights pretty quick after seeing what they would do if left alone. Other than that, he couldn't shift me off of the objectives, even with so many dark light weapons. I managed to hold out for the 3 turns of shooting and only lost the two Dreadknights, Draigo (finally died on turn 5), and maybe 3 other paladins. Easy victory, 4-0 on objectives.

 

After playing that game, I'm still not sold on it. It was better than playing against the IG, but not much. I just don't think this is the army for me. It plays out to be very stationary. In most games it feels like you'll be letting your opponent come to you, especially in objective matches. If he'd have played with everything on the table from turn 1, I doubt it would have been such an easy battle. I think the biggest decider in this army and something that I'd recommend to anyone thinking about running Driagowing is to play with a librarian with Sanctuary. It really offsets the low AP/high strength weapons that some armies can bear down with.

 

Tactically, it's amazing the amount of ground a 10 man paladin squad with the two ICs attached can cover. With that amount of space, its fairly easy to make sure that they get a cover save and still take a ton of space on the battlefield. Good advice for deployment in my mind is to keep the ICs near the middle of the spread out mob, with the 4 Psycannon guys split up on the ends. It makes a huge squad that can cover a ton of space, and put out some pretty respectable pain. If I were playing more serious games or in tournaments, I would definitely replace my two DreadKnights with some Psyrifle dreads for the extra long range punch and durability. Fortitude, extra armor, and Venerable rules combined would make them nearly unstoppable.

 

So, that's me checking in with my most recent and interesting match to date with this army.

 

SD13

 

I don't know why it is taking people so long to work this out but just because you play with 10 Paladins doesnt mean you need draigo and then more paladin and dread knight. You can take 10 paladins and any Gm as a Solid care to an army then suoppliment it with strikes coteaz and henchmen and play a much more mobile and adaptable force which is a lot of fun and interesting on the battlefield.

 

Regards,

Crynn

[SirDuck13]

I've thought about other things as periphery to a 10 man pally squad, but I have a lot of hesitation to do so, since taking Draigo out of the wing means that you don't have his 3++ save and Eternal Warrior to soak up the instant death shots that would peal off paladins at an alarming rate. Especially against armies like the IG and the Dark Eldar that can bring tons of heavy firepower to the battlefield. I know that a "pure Draigowing" isn't the only option for this kind of unit to be fielded in, but I feel like it is the most effective by far.

 

SD13

[Archon_77]

I've been somewhat tossing around the idea of running Draigowing with a 10 man interceptor squad and a DK, if only to give me something to do (and my opponents another target) as I footslog Draigo and co across the board, thoughts?

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

You need some long range to deal with mech.

 

G :lol:

[nurglez]

Deep striking squads can be useful for ranged tank hunting. As well as shunting units. Though I'm not a huge fan if deepstriking 300+ points in one go, the few times I've done it it has worked out well :tu:

[Crynn]

I've thought about other things as periphery to a 10 man pally squad, but I have a lot of hesitation to do so, since taking Draigo out of the wing means that you don't have his 3++ save and Eternal Warrior to soak up the instant death shots that would peal off paladins at an alarming rate. Especially against armies like the IG and the Dark Eldar that can bring tons of heavy firepower to the battlefield. I know that a "pure Draigowing" isn't the only option for this kind of unit to be fielded in, but I feel like it is the most effective by far.

 

SD13

 

I have not found Draigowing the most effective or competitive way to use 10 Paladins sure he can eat a singlwe instant death weapon a turn however there are other ways to protect paladins, A land raider costs less than draigo and can physically shield 10 palladins from any fire. Also by just putting vehicles with you paladin list you protect them due to the nature of Paladins and vehicles requiring anti tank weapons to kill. If all you ahve is paladins and draigo guess where all the anti tank weapons fire? If you have Paladins Psyfleman dreads, land raiders etc then suddenly he cannot afford to focus all that firepower on draigo. 2nd to that a GM armed with a full compliment of grenades makes a 10 man Paladin unit far more menacing in combat than adding draigo. Now 10 palaldins may not need to be more menacing in CC however if you only make it to the enemy with 5 paladins then grenades start being worth their wait in gold. Just my opion though.

 

Regards,

Crynn

[nurglez]

I believe you are right, if you only want 1 unit of paladins a gm is a better choice by far, however as soon as you want 2 squads, go Draigo :)

Dont forget the Agro that Draigo causes, certain armies will want to deal with him, and you can use him to taunt enemies, I used Draigo to tank a squad of enemy paladins, moving him into charge range to force them to react, and letting me get them charged by a squad of my paladins next turn :D

 

I lack dreads, or landraiders and take DK's to spam wounds. 18 models with a combined 42 wounds at 1750 points :)

[Archon_77]

My DK has a Greatsword, and the interceptors will be wielding at least one S10 hammer, (With hammerhand) and I'll put two in there if I can (dont have my dex handy, I think they can have 2 at 10 men)

[nurglez]

Interceptors are the one power armoured unit I would use with my paladins, If I was intending to add more models to my army (which I'm not :mellow: ).

 

Paladins are super tough, but they are just so damn slow. Interceptors would provide an extra option, from being scoring and capping your home objectives, to contesting enemy ones at the last turn :D

[Archon_77]

My thoughts exactly Nurglez... I'll get to playtesting after the holiday and report what I find

[nurglez]

I'll give it a go one day too :D

 

Been toying around with some silly lists. And here is one for 1000 points.

 

Draigo

Solodin, hammer

Solodin, hammer

Solodin, falchions

Dk, sword, teleporter, heavy incinerator

Dk, heavy incinerator

Psyrifle dread

 

3 scoring units, more with grand strategy. I could replace the teleporter with venerable on the dread, or another Solodin.

[Archon_77]

Ohh fun! But I think you die to melta/las too easy with those solodins... unless you plan to deepstrike them in late and psychic communion to make sure that happens? You can claim/contest multiple objectives better than normal, but you will struggle to actually hold them, the aforementioned shooting from high str weaps, but also wouldnt you want to maximize your hammers with making sure you get the charge? Which would pull you off any objective, and youd be easily tarpitted out. Lowly 10 man kroot squad takes 5 turns at best to die for example.. and thats assuming everything hits.

[nurglez]

Aye, it could be challenging, but that's half the fun of this list :D

 

Depending on the mission, I probably would reserve the solodins, and deepstrike them in. Can also use holocaust to try and take put hordes :D

[+Grimaldus+]

Hey guys! I was thinking about a different kind of list for the draigowing... I usually play 1500 points and wanted to try something with the so powerful Coteaz so... Here is the list! What do you think?

 

Draigo

coteaz

10 paladins 4 psycannons 1 flag

5* 3 warrior accolites with RB with psybolt ammo

 

but I don't like it very much... Not for his powers but for the fact that I prefer knigts to inquisition :yes:

 

oh I've got a big question... How can I have the right psycannons buying 2 boxes of terminators? I've bought them but there are only 2 of them... Help please!