nurglez Posted November 27, 2011 Author Share Posted November 27, 2011 there are 3 alternatives to not having enough psycannons. 1: buy some more (either more boxes of terminators, or from bits sites/trades) 2: use power armoured psycannons with a bit of conversion 3: do what I did and make my own (using chaos vehicle gargoyles and psilancer guns) Not sure how that sort of list would work, seems quite decent though, I would be tempted to try and fit a chimera in there so you can transport a squad of terminators with draigo, or even have coteaz attached to the 5 man combat squad that has 4 psycannons, it lets them do drive bys ^_^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Grimaldus+ Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 Thank you nurglez! I will control if the power armored psycannons are the same size as the terminators ones (I want my paladins to be perfect :P) I was also asking myself if in a list including Draigo at 1500 points if I had to put 15 paladins at least... Because I think that draigo and 5 paladins themselves are really great (even if they are only 5) allowing me to put much more differences in my gk list like land raider,pagk, purifiers, ecc... Also because I think that 10 paladins are a very overkill unit but not immortal, especially in mirror games versus dca... Remembering that draigo is a Beast! And the best grand master in the codex (not mentioning mordrak). What do you think? I know that you have won lots of games with this list so I want to know how it has to be played :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Silver Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 Hi all... Some time ago I win tournament (38 players) with this list: Lord Kaldor Draigo (HQ) @ 275 Pts Librarian (HQ) @ 165 Pts Nemesis Force Sword; Might of Titan; Sanctuary; The Shrouding Venerable Dreadnought (Elites) @ 195 Pts Twin Autocannon (x2); Psybolt Ammunition Venerable Dreadnought (Elites) @ 195 Pts Twin Autocannon (x2); Psybolt Ammunition 5 Paladin Squad (Troops) @ 285 Pts Paladin with Nemesis Daemon Hammer and Storm Bolter Paladin with Nemesis Force Sword and Storm Bolter Paladin with Master-crafted Nemesis Force Halberd and Storm Bolter Paladin with Nemesis Force Halberd and Storm Bolter Paladin with Nemesis Force Halberd and Incinerator Paladin with Nemesis Force Halberd and Storm Bolter (Troops) @ 55 Pts Paladin with Nemesis Force Halberd and Storm Bolter (Troops) @ 55 Pts Nemesis Dreadknight (Heavy Support) @ 260 Pts Nemesis Greatsword; Heavy Incinerator; Nemesis Doomfist; Personal Teleporter Nemesis Dreadknight (Heavy Support) @ 260 Pts Nemesis Greatsword; Heavy Incinerator; Nemesis Doomfist; Personal Teleporter Land Raider Crusader (Heavy Support) @ 255 Pts Models in Army: 14 Minimum Killpoints: 10 Total Army Cost: 2000 I have different opponents and have 4 wins and 1 draw game. I think that this list is very fun to play but it some time very difficult especially game against Space Wolfs with 11 razorback with LC/TLPG and 20 RL and I can score win in this KP final game :lol: Also I beat: CSM with Abba, 2x3 Obliterators and DP with Lash IG with 5 veterans (PG, MG), and a lot of tanks Tau with a lot of crisis and 2x2 broadsides... and have a draw against nice round SW list (my big mistake was in deployment) Hope that somebody can find something interesting in my list ;):P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglez Posted December 15, 2011 Author Share Posted December 15, 2011 Thank you nurglez! I will control if the power armored psycannons are the same size as the terminators ones (I want my paladins to be perfect :P) I was also asking myself if in a list including Draigo at 1500 points if I had to put 15 paladins at least... Because I think that draigo and 5 paladins themselves are really great (even if they are only 5) allowing me to put much more differences in my gk list like land raider,pagk, purifiers, ecc... Also because I think that 10 paladins are a very overkill unit but not immortal, especially in mirror games versus dca... Remembering that draigo is a Beast! And the best grand master in the codex (not mentioning mordrak). What do you think? I know that you have won lots of games with this list so I want to know how it has to be played ;) wow, meant to reply to this and then forgotten, has it been that long? My only experience running paladins has been in a pure paladin army. Draigo and 10 paladins is just nasty, able to get cover and still fire 4 psycannons easily, however Draigo is rather expensive, and is more worth while the more paladins you include (as you make them troops and scoring). If you are already bringing 2 troops, you may just want to go for a normal grand master, thus letting you take all the funky grenades, or an extra psycannon or what ever you want him to have. You can also just take Draigo and 2-4 solodins, and then buy extra killy stuff. bring some servo skulls, and deep strike in the solodins mid-late game to capture, or preserve them in kill point games (all theory, as I've never tried them like this). Crynn has experience of only using 1 squad of paladins, so check out his thread. Draigo + coteaz/inquisitor would be a good combo in my book, letting you either bring DCA or some other sort of unit to balance out the eliteness of paladins. @John Silver, I like your list. has even less models then I do at 1500 points ;) I'd prefer some hammers on the solodins, and some psycannon's on the 5 man squad, as psycannon's are awesome, however as you are allready tight for points I don't see how you would fit them in. I have wanted to try out solodins for quite awhile, but I have stopped playing with my Draigo wing against my friends as its unfair and not fun, though I will be bringing them to the april uk throne of skulls, my usual 1500 point list should be fun to try vs people I don't know (17 models, but 4-5 kill points :) ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Silver Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 ...@John Silver, I like your list. has even less models then I do at 1500 points :D I'd prefer some hammers on the solodins, and some psycannon's on the 5 man squad, as psycannon's are awesome, however as you are allready tight for points I don't see how you would fit them in. I have wanted to try out solodins for quite awhile, but I have stopped playing with my Draigo wing against my friends as its unfair and not fun, though I will be bringing them to the april uk throne of skulls, my usual 1500 point list should be fun to try vs people I don't know (17 models, but 4-5 kill points :tu: ). Thanks for comments :( About solodins - they are really great! In one game solodin charge 3 chaos terminators and win the day... But and this moment I think to use them with swords or falshion, because the most problem is fists in small squads... with sword solodin will have nasty 4++ and can still beat a lot of enemy, with falshions he can beat enemy faster and so can wipe out they before fist can attack... But I also prepare different list for next tournament: Lord Kaldor Draigo (HQ) @ 275 Pts Librarian (HQ) @ 175 Pts Nemesis Force Sword; Servo-skull (x1); Might of Titan; Quicksilver; The Shrouding; Warp Rift 5 Paladin Squad (Troops) @ 310 Pts Nemesis Daemon Hammer (x1); Storm Bolters (x3); Nemesis Warding Stave; Nemesis Force Halberds (x3); Incinerator (x2); Master-crafted Weapons (x1) 5 Paladin Squad (Troops) @ 310 Pts Nemesis Daemon Hammer (x1); Storm Bolters (x3); Nemesis Warding Stave; Nemesis Force Halberds (x3); Incinerator (x2); Master-crafted Weapons (x1) Stormraven Gunship (Fast Attack) @ 205 Pts Twin Lascannon; Twin Multi-melta Stormraven Gunship (Fast Attack) @ 205 Pts Twin Lascannon; Twin Multi-melta Nemesis Dreadknight (Heavy Support) @ 260 Pts Nemesis Greatsword; Heavy Incinerator; Nemesis Doomfist; Personal Teleporter Nemesis Dreadknight (Heavy Support) @ 260 Pts Nemesis Greatsword; Heavy Incinerator; Nemesis Doomfist; Personal Teleporter Models in Army: 16 Minimum Killpoints: 8 Total Army Cost: 2000 So we are small, fast and deadly... At this moment I'm waiting for my stormravens (I live in Russia and don't have any shop in my city which sale GW products, so I need a lot of time (more than moths, usually) to get my order from GW webstore), and only one question break my mind: change second DK for a 2 Dreadnoughts with AC and DCCW or not... What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglez Posted December 16, 2011 Author Share Posted December 16, 2011 Dreads bring 2 benefits, long range and psychic protection. With an assault cannon they don't bring as much compared to psycannon paladins, but with psy bolt autocannons they bring something you lack, and with 2 storms I'd want to bring some dreads, however dks work well in pairs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglez Posted January 13, 2012 Author Share Posted January 13, 2012 quick update, after a break to play some malifaux, and work on my dark eldar, I have played 2 games with a revised list, trying to decide what I shall take to throne of skulls in april (1500 points). Draigo inquisitor, terminator armour, psycannon, daemon hammer, psychic communion and 3 servo skulls 10 paladins 2 solodins dreadknight heavy incinerator dreadknight heavy incinerator, great sword First game was a draw, vs nids, capture and control. second game was a loss vs vulkan led space marines, seize ground, 5 objectives. I'm still not sure if this list is as good, I have 1 big unit that can pump out 5 psycannon shots, but only against 1 target (I am loath to combat squad the 10man). I shall alternate testing it out and using my regular 1500 point list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gornall Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Thank you nurglez! I will control if the power armored psycannons are the same size as the terminators ones (I want my paladins to be perfect :)) I was also asking myself if in a list including Draigo at 1500 points if I had to put 15 paladins at least... Because I think that draigo and 5 paladins themselves are really great (even if they are only 5) allowing me to put much more differences in my gk list like land raider,pagk, purifiers, ecc... Also because I think that 10 paladins are a very overkill unit but not immortal, especially in mirror games versus dca... Remembering that draigo is a Beast! And the best grand master in the codex (not mentioning mordrak). What do you think? I know that you have won lots of games with this list so I want to know how it has to be played <_< I'm not as experienced with Nurglez, but I have had a lot of success with Draigo and 5 Pallies in a 1500 list. I provide them with support from GKSS in Pysbacks and Dreads. Between the Mech and the Pallies, it tends to overload my opponents S8/AP2 capabilities. It's not the most optimal list, but it is fun to play and has a lot of tactical options. I have posted some bat reps on my blog if you are interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spec.ops Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Excuse me, but I was wanting to know what you GK commanders thought of the Brother Banner on a 10 man Pali squad? And, mastercrafted Psy Cannons. Are they worth it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedemptionNL Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 I always take a banner in a 10 man squad. It's not only a decent piece of wargear, it helps with wound allocation. I normally don't take it on 5 man squads though. I usually only master-craft Psycannons for complex wound allocation, or if I can spare the points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crynn Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 I always take a banner in a 10 man squad. It's not only a decent piece of wargear, it helps with wound allocation. I normally don't take it on 5 man squads though. I usually only master-craft Psycannons for complex wound allocation, or if I can spare the points. +1 Exactly what this fine gentleman has said. He is spot on. Regards, Crynn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spec.ops Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Sounds good. :D I will most definitely take the Banner. However, what if I didn't maximize wound allocation? Example: Pal: 4xPC (MC) w/ 9x NFH .......Apoth w/ Banner Is this OK or will this squad die a hundred horrible deaths every game. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 you do something like this PC+sword pc+halabard pc+hammer pc+falchions halabard MC halbard halabard MC stormbolter hammer dude with banner apothercarcy with halabard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 I think a good combination for a five man squad is to arm the standard bearer with a psycannon. G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dexo Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 In a five man squad i will not use a banner. 5x Pal/Termi = 10 FW attack 5x Pal/Termi with banner = 12 FW attack (12,5 point par extra attack) So youer paying 25 point for 2 attacks, in a 10 man squad its a other story 10x Pal/Termi = 20 FW attack 5x Pal/Termi with banner = 27 FW attack (3,5 point par extra attack) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spec.ops Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Hmmm...7 extra attacks for 25 points. It doesn't sound so great now when its put in that perspective. LOL Thanks Dexo! Oh, and one more question. LOL If I was going to add a second HQ to buff my Dragowing who does it best? I'm thinking its the, GMGK, because he gives me an extra PC and access to another Grand Strategy almost guaranteeing scout moves for everyone meaning I'm that much closer to shoot + assault everything. ;) But, it seems a lot of people prefer the, Lib. So, he gives me Psy defense and Shrouding. Maybe I am just missing something, but whats so good about shrouding? isn't it just a 6+ cover save out in the open? And, Sanctuary stops assaults. So, in essence he allows me to turtle up in the center field and shoot the hell out of everything unabated by enemy fire (6+ CS - big whoop) and denies assaults so I can continue to shoot. Hmmm... He certainly is geared more towards - Nidzilla style of play. :P Thoughts? :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglez Posted January 19, 2012 Author Share Posted January 19, 2012 I have never used either a brotherhood banner or an apothecary, so I can't comment on them really :) A second GM isn't really worth it, unless you have a lot of units, as per the faq. Q: Can one unit be given two different roles by two different Grand Master’s Grand Strategy special rules? (p22) A: No. Shrouding gives a 6+ cover save and also stealth, which is +1 to a cover save, so if you are behind cover that gives a 4+ save, its now 3+. go to ground and its now a 2+ :) A libby is a very good force multiplier, almost too good. I dont use one until I get to 2000 points because they are just too good (for friendly play amongst my friends anyway). if you have draigo, pallies and a libby you can go up to str 7+2d6 armour penetration, which just beats vehicles. shrouding helps protect units from shooting, and sanctuary helps vs assault. I've been trying out a inquisitor in terminator armour with psycannon, psychic communion and servo skulls, and he's pretty good, though 119 points. I've been thinking a lot about different 1500 point lists, due to heading to the uk throne of skulls in april: Draigo, 15 pallies with 6 psycannons and a dk with PT, GS and HI. my usual list, had a lot of success with it. Draigo, 15 pallies with 6 psycannons, libby with warding stave, teleporter homer, servo skulls and 3-4 psychic abilites and a bunch more MCed weps then usual Draigo, 10 pallies with 4 psycannons, 2 solodins, inquisitor terminator, psycannon, grand communion and servo skulls, DK with HI, DK with HI and GS. tried it out in 2 games and had a draw and a loss, but still feel it has merit, though if I dont combat squad I can only shoot psycannons at 1 target each turn. Draigo, 15 pallies with 6 psycannons, inquisitor terminator, psycannon, grand communion and servo skulls, psyrifle dread I really like my DK, even though he is well over costed, a shunting heavy incinerator is just so much fun vs some lists (4+ saves that rely on cover saves). The lists above are other ones I'd like to try, even though I feel the psyrifle dread is over powered, I wouldn't mind trying him out at throne of skulls, though I was happy that last time I went I was one of the few grey knight armies that didn't have psyrifle dreads... Which list above do you think is best? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spec.ops Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Wow, your asking my input - OK! :] I like these two: Draigo, 15 pallies with 6 psycannons, libby with warding stave, teleporter homer, servo skulls and 3-4 psychic abilites and a bunch more MCed weps then usual I plan to build a BA army before GKs, but my finished BA lists always focus on decked out troop squads with added support to push there strengths over the edge. So, this is why I like this one. However, I feel the top list is better served at a higher point level where you have more bodies for the lib to really come into effect. My phislosphy is the lower point level the higher the quantity and vice versa for higher and quality. Draigo, 15 pallies with 6 psycannons, inquisitor terminator, psycannon, grand communion and servo skulls, psyrifle dread Now, lets be real. in a 1.5k you can't reach out and touch everything in a drago list. Maybe in 2.5k, but certainty not 1.5. So, the inclusion of a PRD is a solid way to shore up that huge pitfall. Because, lord knows if I was IG I would let you go first knowing you would deploy center field allowing me to then split my force in two on both corners and blast away with intersecting fire. Now, I haven't touched the table in a long time so take my input with a lot of salt, but I'm thinking you might like this. Drago 3x5 PAL: 2x PC 2x1 PRD Its not fancy, but I'm thinking it should get the job done. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglez Posted January 20, 2012 Author Share Posted January 20, 2012 I shall try out both lists, and see. A libby really is useful, even at 1500 points. sanctuary messes up so many things on the charge, and can make an opponent think twice about trying to assault, while shrouding can really help (4+ cover happens rather a lot, and is easy to get with a 10man squad while not allowing cover from the 4 psycannons, and it effects the whole force if kept close together). A psyrifle dread and an extra psycannon will help with shooting, along with an extra psychic communion, although in this list it wouldn't be as needed (and I could swap it for 6MCed psycannons. Both lists give me servo skulls to help with deepstrike and preventing enemy scout/infiltrate. Model wise, I have both options already (I really like my rogue trader era grey knight libby, I also have a few rogue trader era inquisitors in terminator armour too :) ), while I have a forge world chaplain dread with autocannons and a contemptor dread needing some autocannon arms (bought some from puppetwars.eu but not totally happy with them...). As for the 3rd list, there is no way I am using 2 psyrifle dreads at 1500 points :) I really think they are like missile longfangs/oblitorators, too good for their cost vs certain things, and rubbish vs others. 1 I can allow myself to use, but 2 is just not on (for me anyway). I should be getting a few games in on monday, I'll keep you all updated :wub: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Clausel Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 You can aslo use normal termies? I use them every time and I think they are doing their job pretty good. plus the are a little cheaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglez Posted January 22, 2012 Author Share Posted January 22, 2012 Slight problem there, I only own 15 grey knight terminator models, with 6 of them equipped with psycannons... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Clausel Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Well thats a pickle :P Buy more :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglez Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share Posted January 23, 2012 Nah, I only need 15 paladins at the most, even at 2000 points. Don't want any power armoured models, apart from a tech marine or Inquisitor (to try out funky grenades, still haven't tried those out yet). Had 2 games today. I used. 1500 Draigo Usual 15 paladins Inquisitor with psycannon, psychic communion. Psyrifle dread. I played vs commander sasha's skavenids and codex space marines force (including commander sasha, a female count as vulkan and including pole dancing in his rhinos... :) ). First game was capture and control, quarters. vs skavenids (tyrant and guard, hive guard ymargal stealers, 2 genestealer squads, tervigon, shrikes, zoanthropes in a pod and some termagants). Grand strategy roll was 3 so both paladins and the dreadnought got Reroll to wound, this would prove useful. I won, holding his objective with 7 paladins and my Psyrifle and inquisitor with 3 rather wounded paladins holding mine. Tabled him. Decisive bit was Draigo holding a castle fort entrance and wiping out a squad of genestealers on his own and 9 paladins and the inquisitor multi charging 2 squads of termagants (20+) and 6 ymargls engaged with 4 paladins from the second squad). My opponent tried bubble wrapping but some bad luck let me charge 2 of the squads and left only 3 gaunts alive, surrounded by paladins :ph34r: Second game was seize ground, 3 objectives, (vulkan, 5 assault Termies. Landraider redeemer, 2x10 tacticals in rhinos, iron clad in drop pod, 2 melta attack bikes, thunderfire). We used the same terrain and this was his downfall, it was rather blocking for vehicles, (due to both of us playing foot slogging forces in the first game). This made it impossible for him to focus me down with his units and I took him on piece meal. High light was rolling really good invulnerable saves vs the Iron clad and vulken, while he lost 4 assault Termies before they could strike (i love halberds). So I have learnt what I need to know, I still have to decide between the Psyrifle dread and the inquisitor or my dk. I reslly missed the dk in the first game, he had a large gaunt squad on his home objective and had his buble wrap worked, would have kept me from his objective, I got lucky that he only had 2 spawns of gaunts from his tervigon before he rolled doubles... Had I had my dk I could have threatened his back field from the first turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglez Posted March 17, 2012 Author Share Posted March 17, 2012 well, I haven't read the "leaked" 6th edition rulebook, but I know the rule you are talking about. Wound allocation shenanigans really helps the increase the toughness of Draigowing, of that there is no doubt. Even if it is lost, I will still intend to play with them, as I love elite low model count armies (though with chaos due out, and being my first love, we will see). Even if they are less tough, I'm sure they will still be viable, part of the reason I don't play with them currently is that they are very tough for my friends to beat (100% win ratio in kill point games), though I am taking them to the april throne of skulls at warhammer world :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglez Posted April 23, 2012 Author Share Posted April 23, 2012 Right, reviving this old worn out thread, as I am off to Throne of skulls and warhammer world, Nottingham in less than a week, which means I can play with my Draigo wing again, yay! 4 of us are heading up, Imperial guard, Angels Sanguine (RebG), Iron warriors (Vlâdvar The Destroyer )and of course my Draigo wing. This is my second outing there and their first, so it should be interesting. As it is 1500 points this time round (apparently 1750 points allowed for too much spamming or beardyness according to rumor mongers) I shall take my usual list, the same one I first used: Draigo 10 paladins, 4 psycannons, 2mced halberds, 3 halberds, 2 hammers, 2 swords and 1 falchion 5 paladins, 2 psycannons, 1 mced halberd, 2 halberds, 1 hammer and 1 sword Dreadknight, heavy incinerator, great sword and personal teleporter I did try out replacing the dreadknight with a inquisitor with psycannon and a psyrifle dread, while I had better long range firepower, I felt cheap using a psyrifle at less then 2k points, and I missed the shunt and cover ignoring template of awesomeness (heavy incinerator). I do still feel that the dreadknight isn't as good, but he matches my playing style, and I'm one of the few that seems to like the look of it, so I will still use it :lol: So, currently I am painting up some objective markers, hope I can use them as they are made from non GW models, but I shall bring along some rather basic objective markers too just in case. My army has been ready painted since the October ToS (although my DK's and Draigo could use a bit of extra work), while my 3 friends are still frantically painting their armies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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