majorpayne327 Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 This model will not weigh as much as it's FW equivalent. I plan to use ball point pen springs or possibly stronger to deploy the gear encased in telescoping styrene tubing. I haven't worked out the details yet but I have this mechanism in my pocket. When the time comes I will expand on the concept. Sounds cool. I can't wait to see how that turns out... but for now, continue making magic :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxmarine Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 i really like it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackadder Posted October 21, 2011 Author Share Posted October 21, 2011 The gear well and landing pads scale = 13 ft X 7 ft per pad or 4 meters X 2 meters if you like. We now begin the excursion into attempting to build the retraction mechanism. http://i.imgur.com/xOCGil.jpg http://i.imgur.com/xOCGi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
majorpayne327 Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Well i had given it some thought and had two ideas. the first is to place a spring mechanism that pushes the landing gear away from the craft. This would require u to put a little locking device, possibly out of plastic card, that would over lap the gear forcing it to stay put. My other idea is making the gears like a pen. Somehow make them so they click into place like a pen, and when u want to retract them u just push them back in. Ik thats not very descriptive but i hope u understand. If i hav time later maybe ill draw a small diagram for u. The downfalls: The first is a quicker way in my opinion but u need to makke a lock strong enough so it doesnt break off by the force of the.spring. the secojd one is a little more complicated but would probably be stronger. I hope you could use any of this, id love to see how it turns out. Tell me wat you think :P Btws sry about any spelling, i replied on my phone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackadder Posted October 21, 2011 Author Share Posted October 21, 2011 Well i had given it some thought and had two ideas. the first is to place a spring mechanism that pushes the landing gear away from the craft. This would require u to put a little locking device, possibly out of plastic card, that would over lap the gear forcing it to stay put. My other idea is making the gears like a pen. Somehow make them so they click into place like a pen, and when u want to retract them u just push them back in. Ik thats not very descriptive but i hope u understand. If i hav time later maybe ill draw a small diagram for u. The downfalls: The first is a quicker way in my opinion but u need to makke a lock strong enough so it doesnt break off by the force of the.spring. the secojd one is a little more complicated but would probably be stronger. I hope you could use any of this, id love to see how it turns out. Tell me wat you think :P Btws sry about any spelling, i replied on my phone We can be very sophisticated in the gear up locking device but the strength of the material dictates that the gear down position is the resting position. Now even in the real world gear pins are required "installed" by the FAA when an aircraft is sitting on the ground as a safety measure. I shall probably use pins to keep the gear locked in the down position. The gear up configuration is purely a showboat feature and might look good in a "Convention" display but not a necessary play feature. I therefor shall use the same pins to lock the gear in the up position as well. Of course all this is subject to change as the work progresses and in a fit of divine inspiration I may come up with a workable trigger device that allows the gear to deploy so much the better. All that remains as idle speculation at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackadder Posted October 22, 2011 Author Share Posted October 22, 2011 The gear well skin surface covered with the actual model for reference. http://i.imgur.com/K4MPml.jpg http://i.imgur.com/K4MPm.jpg http://i.imgur.com/QQn5vl.jpg http://i.imgur.com/QQn5v.jpg Now in most of the images I have seen the gear is canted outboard. This will pose a problem as the centering strut ( That which keeps the gear aligned with the direction of flight/landing) will have to pivot as the gear raises or lowers. This posed no problem for FW as their gear doesn't move but it appears unique in my experience with aircraft unless the gear folds out from the centerline in the manner of say a Boeing 727. The problem is that the main strut descends vertically down so the centering 'down and locked strut' jams on deployment. A pretty pickle of a problem. Also the 'Down and lock' strut has no where to go when the gear is retracted; Ha! What's up with that???? FW really dropped the ball on this; engineeringwise. IMCO -- E. Blackadder Quit 'cher bellyach'n Blackadder and stop make'n excuses! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackadder Posted October 23, 2011 Author Share Posted October 23, 2011 The resolution of the foot pad is pretty pitiful but this is what I gleaned from it. http://i.imgur.com/xOrIUl.jpg http://i.imgur.com/xOrIU.jpg http://i.imgur.com/W2i3Ql.jpg http://i.imgur.com/W2i3Q.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackadder Posted October 25, 2011 Author Share Posted October 25, 2011 The gear temporarily installed in gear wells to check for clearance and operating space. There appears to be sufficient room and the struts remain within the hull instead of poking out through the wing root :D whew! http://i.imgur.com/lWAZPl.jpg http://i.imgur.com/lWAZP http://i.imgur.com/03w7wl.jpg http://i.imgur.com/03w7w -- E. Blackadder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackadder Posted October 26, 2011 Author Share Posted October 26, 2011 Found some shots of the landing gear and bays of the FW resin kit: http://www.flickr.com/photos/8476775@N05/2596192384 http://www.flickr.com/photos/8476775@N05/2596192018 Whoa those are some fantastic shots, much better than anything I have. Very much appreciated; I am in your debt. Viewing these it very much reinforces what I have suspected all along; FW got the main gear retraction all wrong. As the forward (angled) retract cylinder contracts it pivots the main strut forward. the landing pad with what I assume is a leveling cylinder collapses forward with the main strut intersecting with the hull well forward of the gear well opening instead of covering it forming a door as FW intends. My main strut perforce will collapse vertically and the angled retract cylinder will be more of a stabilizing/centering device to keep the gear from swiveling. The whole hydraulic/mechanical structure from an engineering standpoint is totally inadequate for a vehicle the size of the T'hawk but at least my interpretation will keep the external configuration intact with the gear retracted. The forward strut is a different case and I may be able to adapt the FW design by placing the foot pad further aft on the shock strut the short strut/pad may intersect the hull where FW intended when retracted and cover the well. The Blackadder, I'm not an engineer but I play one on the internet :) -- E. Blackadder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtle Discord Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 Stunning work, really. I'm amazed at the build/modify-as-you-go method, right down to sketching on the model. I've seen this before, but this is more elaborate than most, and your results are much sharper/cleaner than most as well. You obviously take your time to do it right. Have you ever considered a simple CAD program to help create simple (or even elaborate) panel shapes before attaching? A few CAD designs, combined with your level of modifying skills, would give you results that would take much less modifying-as-you-go, giving more time to really go nuts on the detail you appear very fond of making. The time taken to learn a simple CAD program might save you many work-hours in the long run. I couldn't scratch-build without without CAD, and anything I've made I can reproduce anytime, since I have the design. Regardless, keep up the great work and I look forward to seeing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackadder Posted October 26, 2011 Author Share Posted October 26, 2011 ................................Have you ever considered a simple CAD program to help create simple (or even elaborate) panel shapes before attaching? A few CAD designs, combined with your level of modifying skills, would give you results that would take much less modifying-as-you-go, giving more time to really go nuts on the detail you appear very fond of making. The time taken to learn a simple CAD program might save you many work-hours in the long run................. I'm afraid I am an old dog. Extemporizing is the way I've always worked and learning to use CAD would probably consume all my time that I now devote to modeling. I average about an hour a day working on models and surprisingly I spend more time answering replies on various forums which I enjoy very much. I'm such a slothful fellow almost anything can distract me from building. I look at CAD the way I look at calculators; a great aid to those who are use them but something of the mechanics of mental creativity is lost because the electronics do the lion's share of the work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtle Discord Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—. I took the one less traveled by ~ R. Frost Fair enough. First rule is always do what works best for you. Keep up the amazing work. I personally used CAD in the most basic two dimensional manner, just to get really exact lines and angles for each panel or length of trim-work. After that, it's transferred to sheet plastic and hand cut and shaped. For me it's the best way to take the three dimensional picture in my mind and 'lay it flat' so I can carve it out of plastic. I just can't freehand draw what I see in my mind, it's too complex. I was lucky to be learning basic CAD in school when I was first getting into Warhammer 40,000, so I was able to transfer the skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Studio Silvernale Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 Any chance of posting templates so we can make our own? =D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackadder Posted October 26, 2011 Author Share Posted October 26, 2011 Any chance of posting templates so we can make our own? =D Sorry as you may have gathered from the last few posts, I neither use nor make plans. I'm working purely off of the 3D images posted at the beginning of this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackadder Posted October 27, 2011 Author Share Posted October 27, 2011 I'm trying to build the wings as light as possible because I want the upper wing appendages with the lascannons on the tips to be movable and not be a truss for the support of the lower main wing as in the FW model. FW really ought to research into drilling and tapping threads into resin and installing machine screws to hold the heavier pieces together. Crazy glue and even epoxy sometimes just isn't enough. When I get to mounting the wings on the hull I'll do a tutorial on screwing. Not what you're thinking, Blackadder Back when I was building Lucie I bought some gray ABS plastic box beam tubing manufactured by Plastruct. I don't recommend using this stuff but I've got to get rid of it.so I'm using it to frame the engine mounts and the wing core assembly. It's stronger than styrene but doesn't cement well with styrene glue unless you rough the surface up with sandpaper. Or you could use ABS cement which I believe is mainly acetone. http://i.imgur.com/3ydfPl.jpg http://i.imgur.com/3ydfP http://i.imgur.com/TPmC6l.jpg http://i.imgur.com/TPmC6 Before you get your 'nads in a knot the just installed beams will be cut very short; they're just left long for now to insure they are parallel. That is a building hint; it's easier to insure frames are parallel and true if they are long than short. The discrepancy in trueness is easier to detect with the longer length. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackadder Posted October 29, 2011 Author Share Posted October 29, 2011 We're starting at the ground floor building the wings so there shouldn't be any question later on how it was done. Now if I can just do it without a mistake. http://i.imgur.com/ZDVp7l.jpg http://i.imgur.com/ZDVp7 I calculated the wing outboard of the engine should extend 17.5 mm excluding the wing tip armament That seems a bit small to me but figures don't lie. We'll just have to see I can always make them bigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackadder Posted November 2, 2011 Author Share Posted November 2, 2011 The wing core plates in 2.0 MM styrene cut out and ready for install. http://i.imgur.com/3H6Ull.jpg http://i.imgur.com/3H6Ul http://i.imgur.com/NAmztl.jpg http://i.imgur.com/NAmz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackadder Posted November 7, 2011 Author Share Posted November 7, 2011 I'm afraid you gentlemen and mayhaps ladies perhaps have hitched your wagon to a falling star. I wasted a week on a futile bit of building that did not pan out. Going back to square one I have in a flurry of desperation managed to come up with a better way of doing the wings. This morning I started gluing the first wing together and the foreground piece is the second wing which I hope will be more facile to build now that I think I know what I am doing. http://i.imgur.com/T15nGl.jpg http://i.imgur.com/T15nG http://i.imgur.com/FNTlEl.jpg http://i.imgur.com/FNTlE The extremely fallible Blackadder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Xeones Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 Well, don't be too hard on yourself. I too have had to back up on projects and re-think my approach. Chalk it up to experience, use the ruined bits for basing materials, try again --that's been my approach anyway. It just goes to show you (or, rather, us as your audience) that projects like this are ambitious and even people like yourself don't always get it right the first time around. I'm enjoying your updates. Hope to see more soon. --X P.S. Seeing your square styrene stock also reminds me that I'm running low and need to pick up some more somewhere... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackadder Posted November 8, 2011 Author Share Posted November 8, 2011 Well, don't be too hard on yourself. I too have had to back up on projects and re-think my approach. Chalk it up to experience, use the ruined bits for basing materials, try again --that's been my approach anyway. It just goes to show you (or, rather, us as your audience) that projects like this are ambitious and even people like yourself don't always get it right the first time around. I'm enjoying your updates. Hope to see more soon. --X P.S. Seeing your square styrene stock also reminds me that I'm running low and need to pick up some more somewhere... I posted that self-deprecating reply to demonstrate that scratchbuilding is fraught with pitfalls and that to achieve a decent model one shouldn't be afraid to redo ones work. My motto is "Good enough is never good enough." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtle Discord Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 I posted that self-deprecating reply to demonstrate that scratchbuilding is fraught with pitfalls and that to achieve a decent model one shouldn't be afraid to redo ones work. My motto is "Good enough is never good enough." Well said! Do it right or don't do it. One of my pet-peeves are 'hackers' - people who slap things together with little finesse just to get it done. It's your model/money/time, so don't get me wrong, do whatever you like. Don't mind me if I cringe, however. It's painful if that means starting again, but deep down you know the final result will be satisfying, not annoying. As a rule of thumb, if I'm really torn by working with something or scraping it and starting again, I'll sleep on it, or do some work on another project/component. If after a short time to reflect I still can't get over the 'flaw' I'm debating, it will change in some way. Sometimes I can even come up with an alternative to completely restarting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackadder Posted November 22, 2011 Author Share Posted November 22, 2011 Lost time is not a consideration as I learn greatly from my mistakes and passing that information on to my loyal readers is the raison d'être of this thread. After much rebuilding and modification I seem to be on the right track regarding the wings. It is not too apparent in the photos but the leading edge of the wing tapers forward giving a nod to the necessity for an airfoil on a lifting surface. Of course the 'wing' (for lack of a better term) has all the aerodynamics of a truncated brick but that's the way the rendering looks. http://i.imgur.com/Wg7sOl.jpg http://i.imgur.com/Wg7sO http://i.imgur.com/L08g7l.jpg http://i.imgur.com/L08g7 Now I can proceed on the other wing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiny sam Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 O_O... the more I look at your work the more I'm amazed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roninmodern Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 I can't believe I've only just now seen this thread, it's amazing. It must take some cunning planning to get this done, and I really look forward to seeing where this is going to end up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackadder Posted November 23, 2011 Author Share Posted November 23, 2011 The wings as I build them are difficult to assemble building as I did virtually inside out. There is a lot of guestimation as to where to put the internal substrate i.e. the internal panels, then there is the problem of gluing and clamping in place in the confined area (8MM) between the wing upper and lower panels. There has to be an easier way to accomplish this but I can't perceive it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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