Would the Primarchs have been better off with a mother?

[Legatus]

I dunno, from the description of Shrike it looks more like he did a very good job in that campaign and got famous for it. Similar to how the populace in a sector might hear of the exploits of Captain Lysander during his actions there and then wish he were there if another threat emerges. That does not mean that Lysander is closer to the people or compassionate.

 

The Salamandrs and the Space Wolves have allways been described as being closer to the common man, and especially teh Salamanders go out of their way to help common citizens in need and are still very close with the population of their own homeworld. While the Space Wolves can be a bit rough, they are still very famous among the population and common soldiers. Though perhaps now they are supposed to be completely terryfying, I dunno.

 

While the Ultramarines are generally also described as benevolent, for them it could be seen as simply an ethical act, since that was just what Guilliman had learned from his philosopher king foster father. They do not necessarily do it because they feel empathy for the weak.

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

I dunno, from the description of Shrike it looks more like he did a very good job in that campaign and got famous for it. Similar to how the populace in a sector might hear of the exploits of Captain Lysander during his actions there and then wish he were there if another threat emerges. That does not mean that Lysander is closer to the people or compassionate.

I'm not sure where you're getting this point of view from? He completely ignored the other Imperial Commanders and attacked the enemy on worlds that were considered doomed but still had humans on it. That seems to be an act of compassion to me, but who knows, I may be the one who is off.

[Paradill]

Just because no mother figure is mentioned doesn't mean there weren't any. It's highly unlikely that the tribes/households the Primarchs were adopted into were mono-gendered beard fests..

 

But the Primarchs weren't ordinary humans, depending on when they landed on the planet and when they were found, their adoptive parents might both be long dead. Having a mother figure to teach you as well as a father is no guarantee you'll turn out as a rational and/or stable person. Especially when you are a demi-go with a legion of planet crushing post-humans and innumerable soldiers and battlefleets at your command.

 

Paradill

[Pulse]

Your right there is no garantee but the percentage of that happening is much higher with a mother figure.

 

Lets be honest though, the Primarchs were created to lead armies, not cuddle marines with grazed knees.

[SyNidus]

I dunno, from the description of Shrike it looks more like he did a very good job in that campaign and got famous for it. Similar to how the populace in a sector might hear of the exploits of Captain Lysander during his actions there and then wish he were there if another threat emerges. That does not mean that Lysander is closer to the people or compassionate.

 

As pointed out by Thirst, Shrike often disregarded other imperial commanders and instead fought for those unable to defend themselves. The humans whose cause has been left behind.

 

Furthermore, Corax has always been close to the people. Not only was he raised by them collectively to be a leader of their resistance, when the emperor came to deliverance corax demanded that the twin worlds be made peaceful. I can't see that as more than an act of compassion for the citizenry.

 

More on topic, i do believe that Corax had a mother figure growing up. Raised amongst the slaves, i'm pretty sure one family would have taken him in.

[Legatus]

My bad, I was reading over his description and got most of my impression from the first few stages of the campaign described, and I glanced over the bit at the end where the Raven Guard help out worlds that were abandoned by other Imperial forces. However, I would still say that the Salamanders are more widely known for their care for the common man. Their Index Astartes describes them protecting civilians on Armageddon. Their ties with the nive population of Nocturne is not merely a description line in their Index Astartes, it is the basis for their Chapter organisation (one Company for each of the major settlements). While Shrikes actions could be seen as intended to highlight the Raven Guard Companies' famous independence (not going where the Imperial Commanders want them, but picking their own targets), the Salamanders' actions are unambiguously about sticking up for the little guys.

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

Oh yeah, Salamanders are definitely much more closely tied to the people than the Raven Guard, but the Raven Guard are still considered more compassionate than most other chapters.

[c-wrex]

I feel like pointing out that mothers can also be a source of terrific abuse, especially adoptive ones. Who's to say that perhaps some of the Primarchs did have mothers, and that they were conniving, cruelly manipulative figures? Maybe, or maybe not.

 

Honestly, I don't think it would actually make a difference in their character as individuals. Perhaps it would engender certain attitudes or views of behavior, but in the end, I'm sure all the Primarchs would have come out the same way.

[Iron Lord]

Russ had a mother figure. It was a Fenrisian wolf- but it was still a mother figure.

[Lawgiver 67]

LOL... I can see it now, Russ and Angron fighting over who gets to breastfeed first...

[Drac0]

All I have to say is that The first king (and founder) of Portugal ended up fighting against his mother's armies.

So whether or not the primarchs had a mother, it would likely end up in a heresy as well. xD

[OMordha]

I don't think ANY of the primarchs would have fallen if the emperor was a woman. At some point every son questions the athoraty of there father, especially physically. But mothers word is law, my father and I bicer relentlessly because now I'm bigger and stronger than he is and he gives up, it's the way of nature, but I know even now in my 20s my mother could turn me to dust with a glace

 

You never challenge your mother...or your grandmother for that matter, they usually carry wooden spoons or swichs and those are worse then power weapons

[PyronusSouria]

Is anyone else compiling all the suggestions and ideas in this thread into a reality TV show in their mind?

[SyNidus]

I don't think ANY of the primarchs would have fallen if the emperor was a woman. At some point every son questions the athoraty of there father, especially physically. But mothers word is law, my father and I bicer relentlessly because now I'm bigger and stronger than he is and he gives up, it's the way of nature, but I know even now in my 20s my mother could turn me to dust with a glace

 

You never challenge your mother...or your grandmother for that matter, they usually carry wooden spoons or swichs and those are worse then power weapons

 

 

Actually, i beg to differ. It seems too generalized a statement imo.

 

At least personally, i've never listened much to my mother, she could never communicate to me in a way i understood, and as i grew older, i found that she talks alot but has nothing to say.

 

My dad on the other hand...we argue, yes. Question his authority? undoubtedly! But our bond is always there, 90% of the time we understand each other and if we cannot, we accept each other.

 

My mother can give me all sorts of evil eyes and cold shoulders, doesn't phase me, but when my dad is upset, he doesn't even need to show me a look or say a word.

 

As for wooden spoons? pft, the worst ass-whuppin' i got was from my dad and his belt. I think if the Emperor whupped Horus' ass in the beginning, there'd be no problems.

[Pulse]

I don't think ANY of the primarchs would have fallen if the emperor was a woman. At some point every son questions the athoraty of there father, especially physically. But mothers word is law, my father and I bicer relentlessly because now I'm bigger and stronger than he is and he gives up, it's the way of nature, but I know even now in my 20s my mother could turn me to dust with a glace

There is no room for mother lovin' wusses in 40k, or in life generally. :D

[Codicier Lucion]

I don't think ANY of the primarchs would have fallen if the emperor was a woman. At some point every son questions the athoraty of there father, especially physically. But mothers word is law, my father and I bicer relentlessly because now I'm bigger and stronger than he is and he gives up, it's the way of nature, but I know even now in my 20s my mother could turn me to dust with a glace

 

You never challenge your mother...or your grandmother for that matter, they usually carry wooden spoons or swichs and those are worse then power weapons

 

To save people a rant i'm just going to post the most obvious response to this claim:

 

http://1d4chan.org/images/7/77/Commissar_NO.jpg

[OMordha]

Ok..not ment to be an authentic argument. More of a joke

 

And even the hardest vet loves his mama

[Codicier Lucion]

Ok..not ment to be an authentic argument. More of a joke

 

And even the hardest vet loves his mama

 

Yeah, sarcasm and some jokes tend not to translate well to the internet unless they're extremely obvious. And sometimes even then they don't work well.

[Jim Shady]

Lorgar.

 

His father shunned him so he would have needed a big old hug from his mother.

[plasman]

Mary Shelley's theory behind her novel Frankenstein is that without love people run the risk to become (social) monsters. Frankenstein's monster does not turn bad because he was born a monster, but because nobody loves him. The primarchs can, in a certain way, be compared to some kind of Frankenstein monsters, and just like with Shelley’s novel they lack a mother figure and some of them like Horus and Lorgar feel rejected and unloved. So yes to my point of view things might have gone better with an Emperor AND an Empress to care about the primarchs.

[Elric the Silvercoat]

Mary Shelley's theory behind her novel Frankenstein is that without love people run the risk to become (social) monsters. Frankenstein's monster does not turn bad because he was born a monster, but because nobody loves him. The primarchs can, in a certain way, be compared to some kind of Frankenstein monsters, and just like with Shelley’s novel they lack a mother figure and some of them like Horus and Lorgar feel rejected and unloved. So yes to my point of view things might have gone better with an Emperor AND an Empress to care about the primarchs.

And Horus wouldn't have been the one to mortally wound the Emperor. It would be like an espisode of Cops. "I didn't mean to shot him!" the Empress said. "He abused me so much after drinking and after a day of Crusading!"

[plasman]

And Horus wouldn't have been the one to mortally wound the Emperor. It would be like an espisode of Cops. "I didn't mean to shot him!" the Empress said. "He abused me so much after drinking and after a day of Crusading!"

;)

[2.71828]

Cuddle Marines. Very amusing. They would chase their enemies off the battlefield by threatening to kiss them…relying on the psychological recoil generated from the homophobic, macho identities of their opponents…very amusing…

Khorne berserkers breaking down into tears, a tiny Kleenex clutched in their crushing, defiled gauntlets; members of the black legion confessing to abandonment issues…

 

From my analysis, any mother of the Primarchs would not allow herself to be readily known as female due to the social and historical implications that this perceived controversy might raise. She would refer to herself as a ‘he’ and reject the predictive gender identity ascribed to her sex. The emperor himself could be female or androgynous and no one would truly know otherwise.

[Elric the Silvercoat]

Cuddle Marines. Very amusing. They would chase their enemies off the battlefield by threatening to kiss them…relying on the psychological recoil generated from the homophobic, macho identities of their opponents…very amusing…

Khorne berserkers breaking down into tears, a tiny Kleenex clutched in their crushing, defiled gauntlets; members of the black legion confessing to abandonment issues…

 

From my analysis, any mother of the Primarchs would not allow herself to be readily known as female due to the social and historical implications that this perceived controversy might raise. She would refer to herself as a ‘he’ and reject the predictive gender identity ascribed to her sex. The emperor himself could be female or androgynous and no one would truly know otherwise.

Well I am pretty sure that if this had happened (the mothers calling themselves he) the Primarches would have more problems than they already did.

 

And going with that we really don't know if some of the Primarch were really female and dressing up like men.......and apples would be oranges and bananna are apples......everything is so clear now.

 

Back to a serious note I am not sure if a mother figure would have done anything to these guys because almost everything abou them before the Emperor found them seems that they were already men in mind by the time they were found by the loyal people.

[2.71828]

The statement did not refer to the Primarchs as being female, only the Emperor.

 

Your statement regarding apples and oranges is unclear; please use coherent logic to support your statements.

 

It would also serve greater efficiency if you could provide reasoning as to why the Primarchs would have 'more problems' regarding the scenario of your prior refutation.