Grey Knights 1750. on a winning streak.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Your army is not a net list by any means - thus most likely the appeal here.

 

G :P

[Crynn]

Your army is not a net list by any means - thus most likely the appeal here.

 

G :P

 

There is a disadvantage to having a 'non net list' and that is that when trying to explain my lists and how they work many people instantly pass them off as rather underwhelming or crap due to odd choices that go against the norm, the advantage is people underestimate you on the tabletop!

 

Thanks for being the 100th poster on the thread BO, you are such a forum sl*t, haha.

 

Regards,

Crynn

[Zeratil]

You do a very good job of explaining how you're playing the army I think, maybe for 3++ do a battle report with some good pics (preferably one where you win! :lol: ), cover what you do and why you do it, with reference to your army list choices. I think something along those lines is the best way to explain why your army works despite some differences to what the internet considers 'the best'.

 

Something you've gotten me to consider is the Godhammer raider for GK, the main reasons it see's little action for other marines is the lack of frag assault launchers and that it's long range firepower is cheaper to field elsewhere (amongst others). THinking about GK however, everything has easy access to grenades and one of the things GK generally lacks is long range anti-tank. Now psyfleman are superior for the anti-tank role with 4 shots compared to 2, but the raider has the assault capacity and I think some opponents might be more willing to ignore it than a redeemer or a crusader. Particually with the paladins and psyfleman on the field...

[Crynn]

Just a quick update on how the list has been travelling.

 

I have slowed down on the game front as I have rounded up playing at tournaments and am furiously working on completing my army (I borrowed about 15 of the minis for it over the last 2 moths) and I have been converting every model as I love the army so much. So far I have built all the paladins but they are not yet painted, Henchman are all built and getting painted coteaz is completely done minus his base. Land raider build and majority painted as is the ven dread and the strikes are just being built. My GM is essentially a full scupt and is about half done.

 

I still play a game most weeks just to keep up to scratch with it. So far the record stands at 19/1/0 so just the single draw. I will write up that battlereport as I am sure it will be more interesting to read than some of the wins.

 

Hopefully I'll get some photos up of the army on the condition you guys give proper critique and actually tell me what you like and DO NOT LIKE. looking forward to showing you the other side to my hobby.

 

Regards,

Crynn

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I can't wait to see the pix. I'm sure you're army is a real beauty to behold indeed.

 

G :cuss

[Zagman]

"In the end my Ven sits on home objectives, the pallies go for the middle objectives, (plural, I always place obectives so multiple ones are close to each other)"

 

Am I missing something, how on earth could a Ven Dread sit on multiple objectives? I understand paladins, I do it routinely, but a dread will be shy of the 2nd objective by 3" due to the 12" minimum distance.

I know they are the best objective sitters we have, but I didn't know they were that good! :D

 

 

I like expansion idea #1. I've been running Venerables in my Driagowing lists for a while and they are outstanding, in fact I will be bringing two of them to Ard Boyz Finals in ten days.

[antique_nova]

Just a quick update on how the list has been travelling.

 

I have slowed down on the game front as I have rounded up playing at tournaments and am furiously working on completing my army (I borrowed about 15 of the minis for it over the last 2 moths) and I have been converting every model as I love the army so much. So far I have built all the paladins but they are not yet painted, Henchman are all built and getting painted coteaz is completely done minus his base. Land raider build and majority painted as is the ven dread and the strikes are just being built. My GM is essentially a full scupt and is about half done.

 

I still play a game most weeks just to keep up to scratch with it. So far the record stands at 19/1/0 so just the single draw. I will write up that battlereport as I am sure it will be more interesting to read than some of the wins.

 

Hopefully I'll get some photos up of the army on the condition you guys give proper critique and actually tell me what you like and DO NOT LIKE. looking forward to showing you the other side to my hobby.

 

Regards,

Crynn

 

I should come over to your local gaming area and give you a GK verses GK game! :) with my non net list :D.

[antique_nova]

Your Paladins would have been reduced to I1 due to Purifier Psyk-out Grenades, their Halberds would have swung first and you'd have been swarmed by the sheer number of attacks coming your way.

 

Sorry, but I think only one random paladin would have been reduced to I1 due to Purifier Psyk-out Grenades attack. Look at codex for ability Brotherhood of psykers:

If the Grey Knight unit suffer the Perils of the Warp, or any attack that specifically targets psykers, it is resolved against the Justicar or Knight of the Flame (if he is alive) or against a random non-character model in the squad if Justicar or Knight of the Flame is dead.

 

 

Crynn, many thanks for your reports, very interesting.

 

I would prefer it to be FAQ'd and you guys are now going to have this question in my head all night long as i am without my codex. Wondering if psyk-out grenades are attacks etc.

 

I going to have to phone up GWS to clarify it for an upcoming multi-store war. Hopefully they will add this to the next GK FAQ.

 

thanks

antique_nova

[Borinar]

Expansion 3:

Psybolt ammo upgrade for the strikes (which I have always wanted them to have)

A psybolt razorbacks for the Deathcults and one for the strikes (both will rarely be used as transports) This allows me to split the strikes and put both in razorbacks to move around in, also with str6 weapons they will also be useful in supressing light vehicles like dark eldar venoms and getting side armour shots on chimeras. They will also be useful in blocking LOS to paladins giving them an easier march up the board.

drop 1 MC on paladin with the psycannon and hammer

take 1 psyfleman dread.

I gain an extra Dread with good ranged capabilities and two transports capable of performing tank shocks and blocking firing lanes, they are also able to annoy transports. I also gain psybolt ammo on my strike allowing them to combat squad and still be useful against transports even without a psycannon if i split the 2 psycannons into one unit. I can also re-deploy units into these transports if needs be. I gain 3 kill points however the dread is still reasonably resistant and if am really planning on winning the mission by kill points I can simply reserve the razor backs and bring them on late using GS into corners of the board where they cannot be targeted.

 

I like this Option. It would suit your playstyle IMO. You win your games with shooting and target limitation. The Psybolt ammo will get you more damage in shooting. I also imagine a line of transports with the landraider followed by just enough to get the heavy bolter to peek out from the 1st razor followed by just enough to get the second heavy bolter to peek out with the paladins waltzing behind. Also another Dread in the background giving pressure will do wonders even if it is hiding behind a Razorback. I think T/L str 6 would be better than 12" str8 for your playstyle.

 

Something to consider, a Vindicare. He has good range and grab 4 dice and try not to pen a Land Raider with his rifle. Another thing to consider if you go with Draigo have you though about a Techmarine to bring the grenades instead?

 

Lastly. I look forward to reading some articles by you on 3++. He and the boys from texas often fixate on how many transports can you pop per turn or how many wounds can you cause in CC instead of actual tactics based on rules of the game.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Vindicares can get one shotted and have a low rate of fire. The dreads are all around much better for fire support.

 

G :)

[Crynn]

Expansion 3:

Psybolt ammo upgrade for the strikes (which I have always wanted them to have)

A psybolt razorbacks for the Deathcults and one for the strikes (both will rarely be used as transports) This allows me to split the strikes and put both in razorbacks to move around in, also with str6 weapons they will also be useful in supressing light vehicles like dark eldar venoms and getting side armour shots on chimeras. They will also be useful in blocking LOS to paladins giving them an easier march up the board.

drop 1 MC on paladin with the psycannon and hammer

take 1 psyfleman dread.

I gain an extra Dread with good ranged capabilities and two transports capable of performing tank shocks and blocking firing lanes, they are also able to annoy transports. I also gain psybolt ammo on my strike allowing them to combat squad and still be useful against transports even without a psycannon if i split the 2 psycannons into one unit. I can also re-deploy units into these transports if needs be. I gain 3 kill points however the dread is still reasonably resistant and if am really planning on winning the mission by kill points I can simply reserve the razor backs and bring them on late using GS into corners of the board where they cannot be targeted.

 

I like this Option. It would suit your playstyle IMO. You win your games with shooting and target limitation. The Psybolt ammo will get you more damage in shooting. I also imagine a line of transports with the landraider followed by just enough to get the heavy bolter to peek out from the 1st razor followed by just enough to get the second heavy bolter to peek out with the paladins waltzing behind. Also another Dread in the background giving pressure will do wonders even if it is hiding behind a Razorback. I think T/L str 6 would be better than 12" str8 for your playstyle.

 

Something to consider, a Vindicare. He has good range and grab 4 dice and try not to pen a Land Raider with his rifle. Another thing to consider if you go with Draigo have you though about a Techmarine to bring the grenades instead?

 

Lastly. I look forward to reading some articles by you on 3++. He and the boys from texas often fixate on how many transports can you pop per turn or how many wounds can you cause in CC instead of actual tactics based on rules of the game.

 

While I love the idea of a vindicare I find in practice I agree with BO. 1 shot still has less than a 50% chance to do anything once the unit has cover and I don't like playing against the odds. Every time (only twice) that I have played against a vindicare it achieves nothing, once it got a single shot off before my ven killed the other time my ven just killed it. Remeber most of the time if it can see me I can see it and they aren't exactly tough. For slightly less I'd also rather the psyfleman.

I am desperately trying to add Draigo to the list however I am not willing to give up the grenades and skulls from my GM. Now the Techmarine does solve this when going to 2000 pints however upgrading to draigo and the the grenade-techmarine cost around 200pts and for that I am not really getting anymore dmg just resilience, Also in many cases I will not be making them most of GS as the paladins will already be scoring, I still want the scoring ven dread but if I roll a 3+ I will waste the other abilities I might have, it does mean I can then upgrade my strikes to interceptors however again that upgrade pack nets me little to no additional dmg, just toughness and some flexibility. It is indeed something to think about though.

 

In regards to the 3++ articles I intend to write about less commonly employed tactics and army building theories/metrics. People may be surprised to find out that I actually advocate for MSU based armies with a strong focus on being able to down 'x' amount transports and lay down 'y' amount of wounds per turn. I believe this a good way to create a strong core army and helps with good BASIC list design. There are more technical design philosophies that are overlooked by many players regarding interaction of units and thus all we hear about is "how many of this can you kill?" Resilience and movement are largely disregarded at this point of list design and these are things that I want to address. It's not to say I am above these people and their ways of army list writing, I just believe they are tailoring these articles for the lowest common denominator, the new player (which is fine) however really advanced tactica is hard to find. So hopefully Kirby will be like my first article (it's about more advanced uses for landraiders i.e. beyond drive forward and assault) and I will be able to make some interesting contributions to the site.

 

I may end up turning this thread into a kind of 'Crynn - GK, BatRep and Tactica thread' and link any relevant articles I write that in some way relate to GKs here, that way perhaps the thread will evolve from what it is now. I am happy just posting army updates and batreps while answering tactica questions for the moment though.

 

Regards,

Crynn

[Crynn]

Hey guys, so I sent in my first draft article to 3++ last night just as an example write up. Woke up this morning and bang, there was my draft article already up, they work fast at 3++ it seems! So you will have to mind any grammatical errors but please have a read and tell me what you think, always interested to hear the communities thoughts and opinions.

 

The article is about Landraiders in 5th ed, something that I have touched on here however this goes into more depth. Hopefully it is an easy read and if you have any questions or ideas for other articles you would like me to write a piece on please let me know. Oh and if you want to be extra nice, write a nice comment under my article so they'll have me back. Thanks for the support guys, I will update this thread with any external work I do as well.

 

Here's the link

http://kirbysblog-ic.blogspot.com/2011/10/...n-5th.html#more

 

Regards,

Crynn

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

You're in the pink now. ;)

 

G :D

[Crynn]

You're in the pink now. :)

 

G ;)

 

touché. (even though we are not in a debate) my girlfriend may not be so happy to hear the news.

 

Regards

Crynn

[Fenric]

I have a question to you Crynn regarding the 10 x Paladins

3x halbard, 1x sword, 1x hammer, 1x banner, psycannon halbard, psycannon hammer, psycannon sword, mastercrafted psycannon halbard.

 

Lookign at this you have 3 normal halberd guys who are equipped the same and how does that work with splitting the wounds taken? Do you have to take all the wounds on the those 3 first or can you split even though some are the same and others are different? I don't fully understand the wound allocation play in these multi wound units yet ;)

 

Sorry if this isn't the right place to ask but figured might aswell ask a person who use it all the time.

 

Also love your list and hope you don't mind if i take some inspiration from it ;)

[Crynn]

Good question, an a rather difficult one to explain so I'll start with the most obvious reason. I didn't have enough pouts to mc the last two weapons for full wound allocation. Many people get really hung up on this however with a grand master in the unit it takes 9 wounds before there is even a chance of a halberd dying as at 9 2 halberd take wounds and this very rarely happens. My list has points shave everywhere so that unlike a regular draigowing list I have more flexibility to deal with MSU armies and dark eldar. I have tried to mitigate some of draigowings weaknesses by loosing a little on it's strengths. (I don't actually like rock paper scissor lists). What I find is paladins die to one thing only, str8 ap2 weapons, even with my 7/10 wound allocation I have maybe lost 6 or 7 paladins to general wounds in the 21 games this list has played. The ten points spent on mc'ing weapons gives me mc stormbokter qhich is a total waste and a mc halberd also useless because if my paladins even sniff combat they will demolish anything thy touch, remember I have a full compliment of grenades as well. The reason I left the wound off the halberds specifically is because the only chance I hbe of loosing models to lots of wounds is in combat, Whig I will win overall anyway, the halberds almost always strike first and thus have generally already attacked if a bunch of power weapon wounds come my way and for some reason I take a rediculous amour of wounds, I want to keep my swords to try and save any powerfist attacks that come my way.

 

The ten points that would be required to give my paladins a minimal improvment in resilience and damage are better place on things such as my two servo skulls which have helped greatly in winning games with accurate deepstrike for side armour shot on vehicles or taking objectives as well stopping scouting meltas get ist turn 2d6 armour pen rolls on my land raider. In order to make the best pallie unit I could I'd need to spend 30pts on a warding staff and a mc halberd however that 30 points is the same cost as every grenade on my grandmaster and I can tell you now those grenades will save more wound with their abilities than a warding staff ever will. So it's all about compromise, yes I would like to have full wound allocation however there were other more important upgrades that neede to be purchased.

 

Hope that helps mate.

Regards,

Crynn

[Fenric]

Ye thanks mate and i fully understand and agree with you regarding the points. My question was also part rules question on how you split the wounds if not all are different. Lets say i get 7 wounds can i then split that freely amongst my units still?(sorry if i'm being a bit of a noob) And yes i must say I'm really puzzled how to split the wounds if I get 10 wounds for example.

 

Guessing from your answer that I can split the first 7 (without grandmaster) on the 7 different geared Paladins freely but then when it hits one of the "three" what does the rules say about that if it would happen?

[nurglez]

So you take 10 wounds on the 10 paladins. You assign 1 each, and roll like models together. So the 3 halberds you roll together, and If you failed them all, you would remove 1 paladin and the remaining halberds would have 1 wound.

 

full wound allocation is useful, and for me requires me to spend 20 points on top of the squad, with 2 swords, 2 hammers, 1 falchions, 5 halberds and 4 psycannon's. Also with my full Draigo wing there isn't much to spend 25 points on (how much I spend for full wound allocation on 15 pallies).

[Fenric]

Thanks Nurglez makes sense.

[Crynn]

Thanks Nurglez makes sense.

 

so with my unit if I take 8 wounds I take 1 on every individual paladin and 1 on one of the halberds and do not risk loosing a single guy.

 

Regards,

Crynn

[Brother Valerius]

Nice article, Crynn... although I'm somewhat surprised you didn't mention the scoring Land Raider trick. Having a unit the size of a Land Raider, as tough as a Land Raider, and can score really messes up your opponent's day in my experience. You can infer it from the mentioning of aura expansion, of course, but a trick like that bears special mention, I feel.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Crynn used that tactic very effectively in his match versus the Deathwing - brilliant. :)

 

G

[Crynn]

Nice article, Crynn... although I'm somewhat surprised you didn't mention the scoring Land Raider trick. Having a unit the size of a Land Raider, as tough as a Land Raider, and can score really messes up your opponent's day in my experience. You can infer it from the mentioning of aura expansion, of course, but a trick like that bears special mention, I feel.

 

Good point! It definately should have gotten a mention. I do however believe most people know about this 'trick' to some degree and I did try to focus on less used Landraider tactics though. Wish I could go back and edit it in! Thanks for spending the time reading Valerious, much appreciated.

 

Regards,

Crynn

[Crynn]

Hey guys,

 

I will hopefully have some batreps soon and those army pics, all the paladins are made now and have some of the gold done!

 

In the mean time, I have been put on as a wew.3plusplus.net author and have written an article around Mephiston and Grey Knights. I realise this doesn't specifical talk about Grey Knight tactics however it shows how a good player can use Mephiston to really damage GK armies especially because many GK players incorrectly assume Mephiston is not a threat to them due to force weapons on every model and other such things. I have played Mephiston extensively and in the right hands he is still a tough adversary for the Graey Knights.

 

Seeing as Mephiston is a common choice in competitive BA armies I thought I would post this link here so you guys can look at his potential and thus learn to counter it with your own Grey Knight forces. I have made special mention of things like Draigo, Librarians, Paladins etc so hopefully you will be able to work out what you need to do to make sure Mephiston has minimal impact on your army.

 

Here's the link

http://www.3plusplus.net/2011/10/mephiston-grey-knights.html

 

Hope you guys get something from it.

 

Regards,

Crynn

[Joe Mama]

Hey hey! I'm new at the game, have been reading blogs occasionally, only just started joining forums recently. I saw your 3++ post on land raiders which was really interesting (not sure how much you read the comments there). This list of yours is very very interesting I am tempted to try it. Do you think a version of this would work at 1500 points? Probably would require knocking the Paladins down to 5 and retooling things here and there.

 

My apologies if this was already asked, I did not read the whole thread yet./