Brother Tual Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Good O - thanks for sharing. Just a thought... I see you are employing this unit with a razor back. Is there a reason for this? I understand you are using a psyback with the intention of light armour/infanty type target with secondary role of covering your LR. I see how the psyback is ideal for this. The parts that confuse me a little are... The 3 man unit is no stronger than any other 3 man unit. Dying to an exploding razorback is just as likely. To use the weaponry you have to disembark... not ideal (henchmen dont have lasguns... only pistols...) Not a big deal but they dont have 24" range without upgrading. Have you considered a chimera instead? You loose some of the advatnages of the psyback (rending) but still retain a decent str and range (same as the psybolter) and can fire from the top hatch without needing to disembark or counting as open topped. This all comes at a reduced cost allowing you to potentially increase the power of the psyker attack? I am toying with a similar idea. I am using the lazerback with 3 basic henchmen (I have absolutely no intention of getting these guys out in any circumstance) and I consider them a 12 upgrade to make the tank scoring... I use range and cover to keep this unit alive whilst providing some of the cross table shooting I am used to (codex marines) which is otherwise lacking in any GK list. I muddled in a chimera with 5 psykers (str 7 ap2) as a replacement and I enjoyed both. Obviously they provide different abilities to my list and I get more use from the parts by employing the chimera. Just a thought as you are trying to get something more from the parts than JUST the razorback.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crynn Posted December 15, 2011 Author Share Posted December 15, 2011 Good O - thanks for sharing. Just a thought... I see you are employing this unit with a razor back. Is there a reason for this? I understand you are using a psyback with the intention of light armour/infanty type target with secondary role of covering your LR. I see how the psyback is ideal for this. The parts that confuse me a little are... The 3 man unit is no stronger than any other 3 man unit. Dying to an exploding razorback is just as likely. To use the weaponry you have to disembark... not ideal (henchmen dont have lasguns... only pistols...) Not a big deal but they dont have 24" range without upgrading. Have you considered a chimera instead? You loose some of the advatnages of the psyback (rending) but still retain a decent str and range (same as the psybolter) and can fire from the top hatch without needing to disembark or counting as open topped. This all comes at a reduced cost allowing you to potentially increase the power of the psyker attack? I am toying with a similar idea. I am using the lazerback with 3 basic henchmen (I have absolutely no intention of getting these guys out in any circumstance) and I consider them a 12 upgrade to make the tank scoring... I use range and cover to keep this unit alive whilst providing some of the cross table shooting I am used to (codex marines) which is otherwise lacking in any GK list. I muddled in a chimera with 5 psykers (str 7 ap2) as a replacement and I enjoyed both. Obviously they provide different abilities to my list and I get more use from the parts by employing the chimera. Just a thought as you are trying to get something more from the parts than JUST the razorback.. Just a quick note, when I say psyback I am referring to a heavy bolter razorback with psybolt ammo. significatnly cheaper than the psycannon variety and withgreater range and against dark eldar i need that range, hence me stating 36" range not 24" the advantage to the psycher in the unit is that it gives the unti some functionality. Yes I can leave them inside the transport however the transport will likely die as it is providing cover to other units. If it doesn't then my opponent is an idiot and I will just proceed to hide paladins and give cover to everything, not to mention tank shock. Because I expect this vehicle to die having a scoring unit inside is irrelivant as it will just get shot with boltguns or things of that nature, the unit with the psycher on the other hand will rarely be in the vehicle instead blasting at their troops from 36" away. At that distance it is pretty much out of range of most anti infantry weapons. if they want to fire somethign bigger at them then go for it, it's an 18 point unit I'll go to ground an there is a good chance you will kill none. In kill points they will be held on reserve and moved into back corners out of range of the enemy, they might be lucky to get a shot off at an enemy infatry straggling around the edge of the board. In the 3 games I used these units they made up their point costs and more where as the henchmen died. Due to their range I also only lost the units of them in one game which wasnt kill points and I didn't care. To your other question, chimeras are great but weaker on the side armour (which is the best way to give to your models turning vehicles side on) and doesn't have fortitude so when stunned any units I was giving cover to now have to walk or drive around the chimera wasting valuable movement. Regards, Crynn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Tual Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 Tops. Just adding to the thread mate. I like your idea and I will try it out as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Paladin Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 Crynn, Stumbled onto your thread and been reading it for 2 days. Gotta say I'm a big fan of your list and of your batreps. Love your articles in 3++ as well. Keep up the great work! And thanks for sharing your experience and knowledge. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Tual Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 Crynn, You have played different points levels with your list (it seems this list was not intially designed to be used under 1750) and as a result you have played with 10 man paladin unit or 5 man paladin unit. I was wondering how much this drop in 'paladin power' forces you to alter your play style. Do you notice a drop in performance? or does the reduced total army point value mitigate this loss enough to allow you the same freedoms? I am also curious if you feel restricted by the number of units you have on the table and how you manage to cover the table as well as you do. Deep strike is a great tool and it must help a great deal. Have you outflanked the Paladins? Why / why not? What determines in your mind when deep striking is favourable? How strong are the strike units? At first glance/memory (I read your bat reps when you posted them) they are not mentioned a great deal and seem to be over shadowed a great deal by their bigger brothers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crynn Posted December 25, 2011 Author Share Posted December 25, 2011 Crynn, You have played different points levels with your list (it seems this list was not intially designed to be used under 1750) and as a result you have played with 10 man paladin unit or 5 man paladin unit. I was wondering how much this drop in 'paladin power' forces you to alter your play style. Do you notice a drop in performance? or does the reduced total army point value mitigate this loss enough to allow you the same freedoms? I am also curious if you feel restricted by the number of units you have on the table and how you manage to cover the table as well as you do. Deep strike is a great tool and it must help a great deal. Have you outflanked the Paladins? Why / why not? What determines in your mind when deep striking is favourable? How strong are the strike units? At first glance/memory (I read your bat reps when you posted them) they are not mentioned a great deal and seem to be over shadowed a great deal by their bigger brothers. Hey mate, lots of questions, I will try to answer them as best I can. First off reducing the Paladins to 5 man in games under 1750 (1500) - I only played 3 games at this point level and you are dead correct that the list was meant to played under 1750pts, infact it was not meant to be player over 1750 as the synergy for me at least is perfect at 1750. I find I rarely add to list I've already made at new points, rather a start again maybe using the same core unit or two however some things work at one point level but at another they just dont fit in, you may end up with 50 extra points which can you whittle away on upgrades however this may not be the best use of 50 points. say you had 100pts you could do something usefull with them but the 50 adds less than 50 point of worth to your list if you see what I mean. I will give you an example. I am looking at an 1850 point tournament and a mate of mine who I regualrly play asked me why I was so upposed to spending the next 100pts on upgrades I've always wanted in my list or that could be usefull. Suggested upgrades includ a hammer and psybolts for the strikes and upgrading the GM to Draigo. These changes really do change the list quite significantly but don't really add 100pts worth of potential in my mind. Instead I am looking at cutting the strike unit back to 5 guys in a psybolt razorback and adding a standard psyfleman dread. I feel though I lose 5 strikes I have gained a transport for the unit and a second transport for the deathcults if the raider gets destroyed. Also I improve my ranged anti tank which is a slight weakness of my list, the dread isn't venerable due to the fact that on average I wont be able to make it scoring like the ven with Grand Stratergy. So in this way it is definately easier to work the list for higher points costs than it is to lower it however the list was designed to be played at exactly 1750, no higher no less. The 1850 point list I am looking to take to ETC (European Team Championship) if I get picked is actually drastically different to this list only due to the point limit changing. Does 5 Paladins drastically change the play style of the list at 1500 - Short Answer, yes. Dropping any other unit leaves me with not enough units to effect the enemy if they are so inclined to go the MSU spam route. 5 Paladins are still a formidable unit indeed however loosing half the rock unit for only a 250 point reduction in game limit really changes the dynamic. for 5 paladins to have the same feel or presence on the battlefiend as the 10 does in 1750 the game length would have to be around 1000pts. The 5 Paladins were still a great unit but their uses changed from dirrect assault to a more support role filling in where the army needed them, sometimes shooting, sometimes cc but never as the centre point of the army. In fact the army started acting much mor eindipendantly as the land raider wasnt always shielding the Paladins. Though I managed to win the tournament I didn't finish the list was as strong at 1500pts My 1500 BA Meph army is stronger in my opinion due to it's outrageous speed, though it still uses a landraider in a similar way. How does the army cover so much board space? - Very difficult question to answer thoroughly, I will try my best. In short, it doesn't. However the army also forces the enemy to focus their own army. In Kill point missions you are automatically on the front foot and theres is no need for you to cover ground or be anywhere except for where is the most optimal place for you to kill them taking minimal dmg in return. on objective missions it gets more tricky. First you must place the objectives well. in every instance but when there are 4 objectives and you have to place one first you can force most of the objectives to be within 12 of each other whether it be 2 in a line or 3 in a triangle. In this situation all you have to do is dominate this one are which a 10 man Paladin unit is great at doing. It also only take 5 Paladins to easily spread to capture two objectives 8 can get all 3 so they can never ever ignore the paladins unless they are planning a last turn tank shock on to objectives tactic. the outer objectives is where the desicion making comes to play, you can very well leave them alone and fight for the main 2 or 3 however if you do this and your opponent manages to even contest one of these and take the outer reaching objectives you will draw the game, the take 1 or contest 2 you loose. this is where the strikes come in, they can deepstrike onto these objectives and hold them so that even if the enemy contests all 2 or 3 ones you have focussed your force on you will stll win. Now you force the enemy to send forces out go rescue those onjectives and we are not talking those little objective sitters like 5 dire avengers or tac marines i'm taking a unit that can deal with 5- 10 strikes, now beacause you don't come down to between turn 2-4 generally they cant do what most good generals will do which is sweep there whole army over these untis easily destroy them than head for the main force, you arrive to late if they do that they will not have the time to redirect their force back to your main force. So they have to take these units on with something reasonably combat capable. if they leave units on these early you get the jump on them as you accurately deepstrike down using skulls and get the first shot off which can sometimes be enough to swing that shoot out in your favour. Now the more units the send to get these objectives the more units are redirected away from your paladins raider and dreadnaught, and generally it takes the whole army to bring these boys down, which usually means they are just making your job of holding those objectives easier as most armies cant mount 220 points worth of units to leave behind and beat strike knights so in order to win those objectives they dedicate 400pts worth which now cannot fight everythign else in the army. In essence the board is only as big as the objectives are apart and due to accurate relaible deepstrike and good mid ranged weapons you can play into this. What rle do the strikes have - Well I think I have eessentially answered this in the paragraph above. however don't underestimate the power of ten strikes in a kill point mission they will punish mehichles with psycannons and light infantry for 220 point worth of unit. they are an excellent generalist unit, they are what tactical morines aspire to be. Much of the time the army will also be needing to fire at units that have already been whittled down or are just small, say 3 darkeldar trueborn remain in a unit with 2 dark lances, this is a waste for the paladins dread or raider to fire at but the 5 strikes are perfect to finsih this unit off without rediculous overkill which is a much more important role than most people give it credit for. There is nothing worse that having to fire 4 psycannons and 6 stormbolters and 3 guys. I hope that answers some of your questions. I have a big 1750 point tournament coming up and though my army isnt fully painted I am still looking to win it (this tournament gives points for painting and such) if not at least win best general. I will get battle reports up as soon as I hit the tournament. Otherwise please feel free to leave anymore questions for me to answer. I will come back to spell and grammer check this as I can't be bothered right now as I'm in Thailand and the weather is too nice here to spell check. Merry Xmas guys!!! Regards, Crynn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Tual Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 Good O. I would like to discuss your insights further, if you have the time. Dropping any other unit leaves me with not enough units to effect the enemy if they are so inclined to go the MSU spam route. This implies you believe your army to be 'small' through low unit count. I can see the obvious downside - lack of offensive options. I have played DW previously and I understand this. What I found most debilitating however was not the low number of units per-se but the low speed of my few units making it very difficult to react to threats or play the game in any other way apart from one set during deployment. If you deploy or have to walk this unit on, in order to physically reach just past the table centre it is going to take 3+ turns (effectively 50%) of you movement from you. Whilst not terrible, it potentially denies you freedom of movement beyond forward at 6". 10 Paladins mitigates this perceived weakness somewhat because they control and dominate so well. A real example of this situation would be committing your Paladins to the enemy objective in their deployment zone only to have your GKSS destroyed by a fast unit such as incubii or outflanking Stealers etc. I found it so frustrating being committed to a draw outcome because I lacked speed, once deployed, to react. I know you have a dread you can make scoring and the Death Cults are enabled to be responsive and your record shows this is 'enough' but have you actually ever felt like your list lacked pace? What I do really like about your list and game style is the ability to 'switch' your units. You have 3 very strong units that can play defensive OR aggressive. I am assuming this is how you guard against being avoided. You can use your paladins to secure the home objective - instantly forcing the draw and use the GKSS to capture the win or vice versa with the DCA and LR supporting either position. I assume alot of this is decided by you before deployment just by looking at your opponents list gauging comparative speed and power. Is it fair to state the above as being close to the core workings of your list? Whilst I realise GK is not DW, I struggled interchanging my attack and defence ironically because all units were essentially the same. It is impossible to selected a 'better' option because I effectively only had one... 5 terminators. All I could do was increase the number of units I committed. Otherwise DW and GK appear very similar. Same effective range, same pace and same deployment options. I am trying to relate your insights to my experience to help understand. I have read a few of your other threads, both here and 3++. Psychic defense is something I agree to be a major boon to any space marine based list and whilst GK have inbuilt defense, it is pretty basic. I have been trying to mix in a Librarian into my own builds and wonder why you have looked past this IC. I understand you use the GM to make units scoring but lack the ability to capitalise fully on his other abilities - aka the alpha strike. Does making a unit scoring far outweigh a librarian and his psychic defense? Is there a reason other than points restrictions why you dont employ alpha strike? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crynn Posted December 30, 2011 Author Share Posted December 30, 2011 As I am mainly a blood angel player I definately notice the difference in speed between the two armies however I still find this grey knight list faster than most marine based armies and fast enough to keep within contact range of my enemies. The army has many deployment options that I can generally get each unit in my army to get the first shot at the enemy. Once deployed the army becomes quite slow however with decent ranged weapons I find as long as I'm towards the centre of the board I don't really need to be excessively fast. I have a few long range elements in my list that I use to draw the enemy closer as both targets are very tough destroy. The paladins can dominate an area and if the enemy is fast I can drop them and generally down a transport or 2 with them slowing down another 2 units who occupied the transport. Essentially against fast opponents i used my tough ranged units and perfect deep strike to remove my opponents mobilty as apposed to being mobile myself. Death Wing are really a differnt force all together, I personally only like the TH/SS variety as the storm bolters are really innefective on 43 point models, on a 20 point strike marines sure, but i aint getting paladins for stormbolters. DW are great against some opponents however while they ahve great deepstrike option and can use bikes to do this accurately they cannot scout, outflank delay deepstrike or anything like that. Whilst great in assault they still do not compare to paladins point for point, the best thing they can fight is paladins sure, but against other units with large numbers they become less effective. Both armies rely on eployment for their speed however DW units lack any tricks once they are deployed, hard to sling shot, no grenades not very good fire power bar the missiles, they really need to be taken with a standing DA force with dakka preds and typhoons in my opinion and as soon as you do that the army is wildly different from own GK army. To be perfectly honest, pure deathwing armies are probably my lists best match up. It doesn't look it on paper but deathwing are very predictable and can be easily forced to play the game I want. In terms of being offensive or defensive with my units, that comes from a wide range of variables from table lay out, objectives, kill points oppoenents lists etc. I have fond my list very good at adaptng to these variables, more so than most armies I've played with or against. Bar the Ven dread each unit is capable of being offensive or defensive depending on what is needed, knowing this is just experience, being a able to look at an opponents army and woring out what is the most effective means of taking them out, if I can't do that then what are my options in order to win the mission objectives? To be honest, and most people find this strange, unless the opponents army is completely overbaring I generally play 3 turns without worrying about objectives and just finding the best way to cripple my opponent whilst leaving as much of my force intact. Winning a mission becomes a lot easier when you have a significant point advantage left on the board by turn 3 or 4. Most players go or objectives too early and this always costs them games against me as they leave units out of position or do not maximise their own damage potential. If I am concentrating on just destroying my opponent the army will work as a cohesive force most of the time. Either the opponent will want to combat me in which case my units go into ranged combat/counter charge mode, or they will want to out shoot me inwhich case my units forward moving/ deepstriking mode where I will use the land raider for mobile cover when needed and any non DSing units for suppression to minimise return damage. I am not a 'water warrior' player or anything like that, I have my own phillosophy I stick to, however essentially in terms of how the units functions similarities can be drawn. My tactics start from list building. My lists are designed for me and I have seen countless players play my lists only achieve very little success with them. My armies always have 'not enough models', 'hammer units' which are also frowned upon. I find having an army that has a smaller battlefield footprint a good thing as it allows for my precise movement and the units can utilize terrain far easier and for effectively than large units or large armies. 100 orks is all well and good but how many of those orks will be in range to shoot each turn of actually attacking in the combat? Just to give you an idea of my play style, Mephiston is by far my favourite unit in 40k to use on the tabletop. I know many will frown on that and think he is a sledge hammer but they are wrong, he rewards good players. If I take Mephiston he only dies when I so choose. He has fantastic movement, great damage and durability, controls parts of the board, provides psychic defence and best of all has the smallest footprint a model can have. If a similar unit existed in the GK book I'd take it. I likr rock units, at least the good ones and they are underrated in 40k. The NOVA format of tournaments weakens them somewhat and this is huting their reputation. Psychic defence is a tough one., I believe that in any army of 1500points or more it is almost mandetory if available to the codex. The GK Librarian was the first HQ I toyed with and while an amazing unit, the fact h has to come in termiantor armour is a huge negative due to difficulties in transportation. He has great powers and is reasonabl costed so I he was my first choice. My list just does not have room for him for a number of reasons. 1, coteaz is the starting point of every list I make for reasons I won't go into here, in the start of this thread I explain why he is so good and especially important in this list. 2nd scoring is one of the most important aspects of 5th edition and employing rock type units that don't score is suicide when these units are upwards of 300 points. The GM makes Paladins and and the dread scoring most games or in KP he effective dishes out what would be equivilant to a psyhcic power, reroll 1's to wound or give scout. He also has psychic communion which is an underrated psychic power and pivotal for this list to use deepstrike. The only psychic power i'm missing is shrouding as coteaz provides sanctuary. So all I'm really losing is a psychic hood which sucks however lets loo at the alternatives. 1, I lose scoring paladins and ven dread plus psychic communion and all the grenades. 2 I lost the mystic and ability to deep strike perfectly almost guarantee the initiative wont be stolen from me whilst giving me a 30% chance to steal meaning my opponent really need to consider that prospect. I also lose stubborn on my paladins (very important, 1 psycher battle squad could end them otherwise) plus tha bility to stop outflanking or deepstriking withing certain areas due to coteaz being with 10 paladins or 10 strikes. I dont a psychic plus shroudig can compete with these especially when I have a ven dread providing reinforced aegis on my units and this helps to quell the really nasty psycic powers. I still use a lib when I play henchman lists so coteaz and a lib but my GK lists all revolve around a GM of some kind and coteaz. Hope that all helps, any more questions fire away. right now I'm in hospital with a broken face so forums are keeping me sane. Regards, Crynn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Something Wycked Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 right now I'm in hospital with a broken face so forums are keeping me sane. :cuss Are you alright mate? I hope your Thailand holiday trip didn't go terribly, terribly wrong ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crynn Posted December 30, 2011 Author Share Posted December 30, 2011 right now I'm in hospital with a broken face so forums are keeping me sane. :) Are you alright mate? I hope your Thailand holiday trip didn't go terribly, terribly wrong :( haha thanks mate, very nice of you to say. I'm alright, I came to Thailand under the assumption I might be getting surgery. Hospitals and surgeons here are amoungst the best and far cheaper than in Australia. I've broken my nise 3 times and the surgeon just broke it in a few more places in order to fix the damage I'd done myself. Right now my face is so swolen that my cheeks are blocking my vision! I'm alright, a little pain but mainly just bored. I wanted the surgery after new year but they couldn't fit it in then and still have me right to fly home in time. Regards, Crynn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Something Wycked Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 :P I had images in my head of you getting ambushed by... erm... Chaos Marines, or Daemons, or heretical cultists or something. You know, not a doctor breaking your face ;) Glad you're on the upswing at least. Also glad that you have the time to answer Tual's questions in depth, so I can pick tactics out of your brain by proxy ^_^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crynn Posted December 31, 2011 Author Share Posted December 31, 2011 :lol: I had images in my head of you getting ambushed by... erm... Chaos Marines, or Daemons, or heretical cultists or something. You know, not a doctor breaking your face :D Glad you're on the upswing at least. Also glad that you have the time to answer Tual's questions in depth, so I can pick tactics out of your brain by proxy ;) Always happy to answer quesstions, just been slow on it because I was on holiday. The worst thing you coud get ambushed by here is a pack of lady boys! I'll take the quick death by a Chaos Space Marine over that any day! Regards, Crynn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedemptionNL Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 You broke you nose 3 times? Ouch. Is your winning streak causing some bad blood? :tu: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markus Ramikin Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 It's a conspiracy by GK haters, I tell you. (Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L30n1d4s Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Crynn, any new updates? Always looking for your battle reps, as they have shaped how I think and play. Hope you get better soon. Regards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crynn Posted January 16, 2012 Author Share Posted January 16, 2012 Crynn, any new updates? Always looking for your battle reps, as they have shaped how I think and play. Hope you get better soon. Regards. Hey mate thanks for the concern. Sorry I have been away a while, surgery has kept me from being too active lately. I have a big (100+ players) tournament coming up in less than two weeks and I am taking this army so I will have 8 new bat reps I believe when that is voer as the tournament goes for 3 days! Tournament is mainly all battle point but some sports and paint and comp are included for the overall winner though best general is just pure battle points, and frankly that's all I care about, though I expect to do well in sports and paint anyway. By day 3 if I am fortunate enough to have won all my games I should be up against some very hard opponents which will put me and my army to the test. On another note I have been asked to be one of the potential players for the Australian team in the ETC. Whether or not I decide to go or even get chosen from amougst the other good players in the short list who knows, but it is a nice compliment none the less. Although with the ETC having the format it does there is no guarantee I would get to play either of two favourite armies, BAs and GKs as players for those armies are in abundance!. Anyway guys I will try and get some articles up on 3++ before the tournament and I will leave some links here for them as well. I will also TRY to get some photos of my army progress which has gone no where since the end of last year but it would be nice to get your feedback on how you think my army is shaping up. Anyway guys I'll keep you posted on any news I have. Regards, Crynn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Good luck in the big tourney ! I'm pulling for ya bro . :D G :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crynn Posted January 29, 2012 Author Share Posted January 29, 2012 Hello readers and GK enthusiasts, I bring good news. This past weekend I went to a wargaming convention called 'Cancon' in a Australia's Capital, Canberra. It is a huge tournament run for many different systems with over 400 people in one massive hall. There must have been hundreds of gaming tables, it was quite amazing. The tournament ran over three days with 8 games overall 3 on day one and two and 2 more on day 3. It was a gruelling but fun event which saw 126 players in the 40k tournament alone. The missions were all varied focusing on a main objective and a secondary objective selected from the following scenarios; Tables Quarters, Kill Points, Objectives (Generally 5), Home Objectives (One objective in each players deployment zone), Kill Points and a mission that involved having the most amount of scoring units within 12" of the centre of the board. Each mission also had varying degrees of victory and defeat ranging from Minor Victory to Slaughter. The tournament was highly competitive with the big focus on battle. There were smaller scores for painting, sportsmanship and Composition however most of the players especially at the top tables were focussed on achieving the best battle score. After 8 2.5 hour rounds I finished the tournament with an overall 2nd place, but better still I took out best battle! I thought at the end I had indeed had the best battle score but coming second above others who had battle scores only a few less points than my own involved my opponents enjoying our games and giving me good sports scores as well as getting good painting marks from the judges, and my army while painted for tournaments isn't close to finished! So overall I had a great weekend with many stories as well as battle reports to write up as I know it's been a long time coming, but finally I have some more battle reports for you! I'm also completely blown away with this army with some slight variations recieving best battle in all 4 tournaments I have taken it to. Lastly, one other fun little tid bit from my weekend. As I walked around the convention looking at all the armies set up for painting scores I noticed a really well painted Grey Knight army that was a little strange in its make up. It didn't have the list with it but I could see a Landraider a dread 10 terminators some deathcults.... Upon further inspection I actually realized it was my list! The exact you one you I have written about in this forum, specifically the one I took to the Australian Team Championships some months ago. The guy had everything from the banisher and mystic with the deathcults to the exact Paladin weapon configuration as my own. To be honest Iw as flattered and the guy had done a great job of making the army look good. Better still, I travelled to the tournament with a friend who actually played the guy that was running the list and confirmed that it was indeed my own, better still the very next round my friend played with almost the exact same list! The other player said he had found my lsit on some forum that I don't post in, so it's funny how things do the rounds. Anyway guys, thanks for reading and I will endevour to get up some battle reports for you quick smart, so we can discuss and analize them together. Regards, Crynn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Very well done! Congrats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VAGABOND Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Congratulations mate and well done for doing the Grey Knights proud! I look forward to hearing more about your experience and how well your army performed in games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Something Wycked Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Best battle score out of 126 players? That puts you in the top 0.79% of players :) Well done, Crynn. I look forward to your battle reports! After you've taken some time to recover, of course :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Paladin Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Congratulaions and well done! Looking forward to your awesome batreps :D Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglez Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Well done, Can't wait for the battle reports :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raider Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 I want to say thanks for all the information provided in this thread. It took a while to read through it. :) Im going to a tourney with 1850 pts. soon and consider to play Grey Knights. Funnily I came up with the same 18pts unit as yours, half way through the thread, and almost posted it before reading the rest. Now here is a possible list for 1850 points including Draigo. Please comment! Draigo - 275pts Coteaz - 100pts 10 Paladins, 4 Psibolters - 630pts 6 DC Assassins, 1 Mystic - 100pts 8 Psioniks, Chimera - 135pts 10 Strikes, 2 Psibolters, 1 Hammer - 230pts Land Raider - 255pts Psyfelman Dread - 135pts In this build Grand Strategy isn`t needed to make units scoring. So instead of deepstriking next to servo skulls, scouting can be used to bring the Paladins into position. The Psioniks are meant to hang back and take an objective. The Dread will be made scoring only rarely and snipes around the Land Raider, so he doesn`t suffer much from losing venerable status. Chimeras seem superior to psybacks. Most importantly more shots and firing points for just 5 more points. Now of course you can "upgrade" the chimera with just one Psionik, but 8 seem to be even better: AP1 36" str.10 Template on the move without even exiting the vehicle. This will either strongly limit enemy movement when they hug cover, or enemy Paladins and Thunderwolves will take a high risk of instant death. And its even great against vehicles. In the tourney there will be a lot of Blood Angels and Grey Knights. I`m especially insecure about the mirror match against Draigo Wing. You spoke about weaknesses of that list. Could you be more specific? By the way there will be no kill point missions and many scoring units needed for objectives. That`s possibly an advantage for the above list (In all missions secondary objectives are to kill most expensive HQ, kill most expensive troop choice, have more units one the board in the end, lose less units, wipeout.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crynn Posted February 16, 2012 Author Share Posted February 16, 2012 I want to say thanks for all the information provided in this thread. It took a while to read through it. ;) Im going to a tourney with 1850 pts. soon and consider to play Grey Knights. Funnily I came up with the same 18pts unit as yours, half way through the thread, and almost posted it before reading the rest. Now here is a possible list for 1850 points including Draigo. Please comment! Draigo - 275pts Coteaz - 100pts 10 Paladins, 4 Psibolters - 630pts 6 DC Assassins, 1 Mystic - 100pts 8 Psioniks, Chimera - 135pts 10 Strikes, 2 Psibolters, 1 Hammer - 230pts Land Raider - 255pts Psyfelman Dread - 135pts In this build Grand Strategy isn`t needed to make units scoring. So instead of deepstriking next to servo skulls, scouting can be used to bring the Paladins into position. The Psioniks are meant to hang back and take an objective. The Dread will be made scoring only rarely and snipes around the Land Raider, so he doesn`t suffer much from losing venerable status. Chimeras seem superior to psybacks. Most importantly more shots and firing points for just 5 more points. Now of course you can "upgrade" the chimera with just one Psionik, but 8 seem to be even better: AP1 36" str.10 Template on the move without even exiting the vehicle. This will either strongly limit enemy movement when they hug cover, or enemy Paladins and Thunderwolves will take a high risk of instant death. And its even great against vehicles. In the tourney there will be a lot of Blood Angels and Grey Knights. I`m especially insecure about the mirror match against Draigo Wing. You spoke about weaknesses of that list. Could you be more specific? By the way there will be no kill point missions and many scoring units needed for objectives. That`s possibly an advantage for the above list (In all missions secondary objectives are to kill most expensive HQ, kill most expensive troop choice, have more units one the board in the end, lose less units, wipeout.) Don't be too worried about draigowing mirror matches as with your large balst psychers and extra dread + LAnd raider with lascannons you should ahve enough firepower to reduce his unit down a bit before combat. Also witht he raider you can use Draigo and the inquisitoe to sling shot the paladins into combat giving you a much larger charge range than the average Draigo wing army has. I like the chimeras and the other elements you have added. My only concern is that I believe most of the abilities from grand stratergy are only average compared to making units scoring, so I don't believe the army amkes the best use of Grand strat. I would probably just take one ven instead of two normal and use the points to change the strike squad into a purifier squad with 4 psycannons and buy them a chimera to shoot out of using henchmen. All up it seems very solid. Regards, Crynn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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