Grey Knights 1750. on a winning streak.

[Crynn]

Hey hey! I'm new at the game, have been reading blogs occasionally, only just started joining forums recently. I saw your 3++ post on land raiders which was really interesting (not sure how much you read the comments there). This list of yours is very very interesting I am tempted to try it. Do you think a version of this would work at 1500 points? Probably would require knocking the Paladins down to 5 and retooling things here and there.

 

My apologies if this was already asked, I did not read the whole thread yet./

 

Thanks for the positive feedback on the article, happy to help. I too have tried cutting this list down to 1500 but it is difficult, the paladins are the only easy removal however removing 5 +2 x psycannons and the banner leaves you with a spare 90 points and the army just seems a little off with 5 paladins. 90 points however can get psybolt ammo on those strike knight blus a razorback with psybolt ammo in it for cheap scoring and anti transport so the list wouls still be good however If I was to be ultra competitive I probably would change a lot in the list at 1500. I am actually trying to work out how to take it up to 1850 - 2000. It's surprisingly difficult as I find just adding units doesn't really work when everything in this list a specific purpose.

 

Maybe post up a 1500 point list believe is similar to mine and I can have a look and tell you what I would do.

 

Regards,

Crynn

[Joe Mama]

Ok, please critique it:

 

GM - Rad and Blind Grenades

Coteaz

 

Elite:

5 Paladins, 2 psycannon (3 halbreds (one mastercrafted), 1 hammer, 1 sword))

 

Troops:

10 Strike Squad, 2 psycannon, 1 hammer

5 Death Cult Assassns, 1 Mystic, 3 melta gun Warrior Acoyltes

 

2 Psybolt Autocannon Dreadnoughts

Land Raider

 

I dont' have my codex with me, but I think that is just under 1500. So besides losing 5 paladins from your 1750 list, I beefed up the henchmen a little, and swapped the venerable dreadnought for two regular ones.

[Crynn]

Ok, please critique it:

 

GM - Rad and Blind Grenades

Coteaz

 

Elite:

5 Paladins, 2 psycannon (3 halbreds (one mastercrafted), 1 hammer, 1 sword))

 

Troops:

10 Strike Squad, 2 psycannon, 1 hammer

5 Death Cult Assassns, 1 Mystic, 3 melta gun Warrior Acoyltes

 

2 Psybolt Autocannon Dreadnoughts

Land Raider

 

I dont' have my codex with me, but I think that is just under 1500. So besides losing 5 paladins from your 1750 list, I beefed up the henchmen a little, and swapped the venerable dreadnought for two regular ones.

 

I think you have done the only thing that can be done to this list to reduce it to 1500pts. If I were you I would also try to get psybolt on the the Strike knights as well as getting the psychotroke grenades back in. I do like the melta gun henchmen however it means you can no longer put the GM in the raider with coteaz which sometimes is where it is best for him to be. I think the list would still perform well though it was never made to work at 1500.

 

Have a few games with it and let me know how it played out, I wonder how strong 5 paladins are at 1500 points.

 

Regards,

Crynn

[Joe Mama]

Playtesting it is a good idea, however unless I am some super 40k prodigy my skills as a general will be far worse than yours, for a very long time, considering my lack of experience! So I am setting the bar low for my Win / Loss ratio.

 

About the GM not fitting in the Raider, you will probably poo poo this idea, but I could use a Crusader Raider instead. Fits more people, comes with frag grenades, can move 6 inches and shoot everything. Lose the lascannons though, so that's a big trade off.

 

I could just reduce the henchmen squad down, to make the GM fit, but I like the idea of having extra melta guys, and I don't want the squad to fall over too easy once the are outside of the Raider. I don't know. Does the lack of assauly grenades with the death cultists ever cause you problems, or do you only use them for counter attack?

[Crynn]

Playtesting it is a good idea, however unless I am some super 40k prodigy my skills as a general will be far worse than yours, for a very long time, considering my lack of experience! So I am setting the bar low for my Win / Loss ratio.

 

About the GM not fitting in the Raider, you will probably poo poo this idea, but I could use a Crusader Raider instead. Fits more people, comes with frag grenades, can move 6 inches and shoot everything. Lose the lascannons though, so that's a big trade off.

 

I could just reduce the henchmen squad down, to make the GM fit, but I like the idea of having extra melta guys, and I don't want the squad to fall over too easy once the are outside of the Raider. I don't know. Does the lack of assauly grenades with the death cultists ever cause you problems, or do you only use them for counter attack?

 

I think switching the land raider drops your antitank considerably. Having the GM outside of the LR is not a big deal, I would keep the list the way you have it over changing raiders.

 

Let me know how you go mate!

 

PS list dropped a game! Will have to do a battle report. There is some horrible dice involved, I know it's easy to put it down to dice but they were bad, however I made a mistake that could have saved me a lot of hassle! So what does that say? Even though I had horrible dice that game I still could have gotten across the line if I hadn't made a mistake early game,, we all make mistakes, I'm just thankfull I made mine in a casual game against a friend who was able to capitalize on it teach me a lesson! Anyway. So the list now stands with a W/D/L of 21/1/1 of which it's tournament ratio is 8/0/0 at 2 no comp tournamentsgiving me 2 first places, so I'm still stoked! I also played the list that beat me in a game straight after and got a very solid win so at least vengeance was served!

 

Regards,

Crynn

[L30n1d4s]

Crynn,

 

I stumbled upon this thread and have been very impressed (and intrigued) by both your battle reports and the tactical thinking/application that goes into your gameplay. I also like that this is a unique list, not a generic Draigo-wing or other common list and that you have still been able to be very successful with it.

 

With regards to the topic of expanding your list to 2000 points, your army is very synergistic as it is, so I can see what you mean about how difficult it is to go up another level and still maintain all the aspects that make it work so well together. That said, here is an idea that hasn't been suggested yet:

 

- Add a Dreadknight with Daemonhammer, Heavy Incinerator, and Personal Teleporter... that leaves you with 5 free points to use on the Paladins for more wound allocation (i.e. mastercrafting a Halberd, throw in a pair of Falchions, adding another servo-skull, giving the GM an incinerator, etc.). It seems to me that your list is built around having flexibility to change based on the mission (i.e. Grand Strategy, combat squad as necessary, place ICs with different units, etc) and on denying your opponent the ability to inflict significant damage on any single unit without using excessive combat power, which takes away from his ability to deal with the rest of your list (i.e. Paladins with wound allocation and ICs, near indestructable Ven Dread, Land Raider shielding other units with an AV 14 wall, etc.).

 

I think a tricked out Dreadknight would meet these criteria, as well as give you one more unit to use GS on if you roll a 5-6 (after your Paladins and Ven Dread, of course). Specifically, the DK is survivable, so if you make it scoring, it can hold objectives and, with the personal teleporter, it has exceptional mobility (especially with the Shunt move) to get to objectives, even late in the game. If you use Scout on it, then it can potentially get a charge of on turn one (Scoutn 12", then move 12", assault 6") or outflank and get an 18" charge in on the turn in comes in from one of the board edges. Also, the Personal Teleporter allows you to use it as a countercharge unit, even if your reserve it and have it come in from your own board side...i.e. if you have enemy troops in CC with one of your units on your half of the board and you must win the combat in order to claim the objective, have the DK roll in on your board issue, move 12", then assault another 6" and come in to tip the combat in your favor. Aside from reserving normally and outflanking, the DK can also reserve and DS, using your Mystic and/or servo-skulls to mitigate its scatter, there by coming in on the enemy flank or rear when you need a significant element of combat power there.

 

The Daemonhammer makes it a threat to any and all units, as it instant kills up to T5 units (i.e. Thunderwolves and most ICs especially), still strikes at Initiative 4, and can activate itself as a force weapon against T6+ models. Against vehicles, you have S10 + 2D6 since it is a monstrous creature, so every vehicle is threatened by it, even AV 14/14/14 tanks. Finally, the Heavy Incinerator gives you additional anti-horde and the ability to very accurately shoot even on turns when it is not in CC. Finally, and perhaps most importantly, because of its mobility and ofensive capability, the DK attracts Lascannons, MLs, Lances/Dark Lances, Railguns, etc. away from your Paladins, just like you Land Raider does. Since it has 4 wounds and it T6, it can absorb several of these without dying, which is also great for you overall army suvivability.

 

All in all, I think the biggest thing that the Dreadknight could bring to your armor is Threat Value. By "Threat Value" I mean the psychological impact it has just by having it, especially since it has the Personal Teleporter... you don't necessarily have to even kill anything or even suck up that many wounds away from the rest of your army to geet its points worth, IMHO... the threat of S10, T6, 4 wound MC that can come at you from so many angles and can be buffed with different Grand Strategy choices can be used to "shape" how your opponent deploys and reacts, thus allowing the rest of your army to do their job better. For example, if your opponent wants to use fast Melta (Valk Vets, Attack Bikes, Land Speeders, etc.) to get at your Land Raider, well, you can make him think twice by keeping you DK in the back, just out of melta range, so that he sees, if he rushes in to melta something, the DK with intercept him with its 18" charge and decimate that unit before it even gets to shoot.. same goes for an enemy Deathstar, such as Biker Nobz or BA Chappie/Deathcompany or Seer Council, etc... if they see that their uber unit can be intercepted and held up by the DK, allowing your Paladins to then get the charge on theme when they are tied up in CC, then you have trumped their uber unit and they may change their strategy just because the threat the DK presents.

 

In terms of disadvantages, well, this is putting about a Land Raider's worth of points on one model and the DK is vulnerable to things like Dark Eldar splinter weapons, force weapons, and other capabilities which "ignore" its high toughness and multiple wounds. Also, it doesn't help too much with the issue you raised about dealing with MSU Dark Eldar Venom/Highborn/Darklight spam and Razorback spam, since it has to get close ot vehicles to do any damage and only gives your army the ability to engage one more vehicle per turn (vice picking up a couple of Psybacks for the same points). Finally, being a MC, a DK has a hard time getting cover, even hiding behind a Land Raider or your Ven Dread, so it can be hard to deny the enemy shooting against him.

 

Anyway, just some thoughts on another potential for bringing your list up to 2000 points. Would love to hear your take on this, even if you think this is a bad idea, since I like how your mind approaches things and I know it improves my thinking about 40K when I ready your analysis.

 

Also, please keep the battle reports coming.. they are outstanding!!

[Crynn]

Crynn,

 

I stumbled upon this thread and have been very impressed (and intrigued) by both your battle reports and the tactical thinking/application that goes into your gameplay. I also like that this is a unique list, not a generic Draigo-wing or other common list and that you have still been able to be very successful with it.

 

With regards to the topic of expanding your list to 2000 points, your army is very synergistic as it is, so I can see what you mean about how difficult it is to go up another level and still maintain all the aspects that make it work so well together. That said, here is an idea that hasn't been suggested yet:

 

- Add a Dreadknight with Daemonhammer, Heavy Incinerator, and Personal Teleporter... that leaves you with 5 free points to use on the Paladins for more wound allocation (i.e. mastercrafting a Halberd, throw in a pair of Falchions, adding another servo-skull, giving the GM an incinerator, etc.). It seems to me that your list is built around having flexibility to change based on the mission (i.e. Grand Strategy, combat squad as necessary, place ICs with different units, etc) and on denying your opponent the ability to inflict significant damage on any single unit without using excessive combat power, which takes away from his ability to deal with the rest of your list (i.e. Paladins with wound allocation and ICs, near indestructable Ven Dread, Land Raider shielding other units with an AV 14 wall, etc.).

 

I think a tricked out Dreadknight would meet these criteria, as well as give you one more unit to use GS on if you roll a 5-6 (after your Paladins and Ven Dread, of course). Specifically, the DK is survivable, so if you make it scoring, it can hold objectives and, with the personal teleporter, it has exceptional mobility (especially with the Shunt move) to get to objectives, even late in the game. If you use Scout on it, then it can potentially get a charge of on turn one (Scoutn 12", then move 12", assault 6") or outflank and get an 18" charge in on the turn in comes in from one of the board edges. Also, the Personal Teleporter allows you to use it as a countercharge unit, even if your reserve it and have it come in from your own board side...i.e. if you have enemy troops in CC with one of your units on your half of the board and you must win the combat in order to claim the objective, have the DK roll in on your board issue, move 12", then assault another 6" and come in to tip the combat in your favor. Aside from reserving normally and outflanking, the DK can also reserve and DS, using your Mystic and/or servo-skulls to mitigate its scatter, there by coming in on the enemy flank or rear when you need a significant element of combat power there.

 

The Daemonhammer makes it a threat to any and all units, as it instant kills up to T5 units (i.e. Thunderwolves and most ICs especially), still strikes at Initiative 4, and can activate itself as a force weapon against T6+ models. Against vehicles, you have S10 + 2D6 since it is a monstrous creature, so every vehicle is threatened by it, even AV 14/14/14 tanks. Finally, the Heavy Incinerator gives you additional anti-horde and the ability to very accurately shoot even on turns when it is not in CC. Finally, and perhaps most importantly, because of its mobility and ofensive capability, the DK attracts Lascannons, MLs, Lances/Dark Lances, Railguns, etc. away from your Paladins, just like you Land Raider does. Since it has 4 wounds and it T6, it can absorb several of these without dying, which is also great for you overall army suvivability.

 

All in all, I think the biggest thing that the Dreadknight could bring to your armor is Threat Value. By "Threat Value" I mean the psychological impact it has just by having it, especially since it has the Personal Teleporter... you don't necessarily have to even kill anything or even suck up that many wounds away from the rest of your army to geet its points worth, IMHO... the threat of S10, T6, 4 wound MC that can come at you from so many angles and can be buffed with different Grand Strategy choices can be used to "shape" how your opponent deploys and reacts, thus allowing the rest of your army to do their job better. For example, if your opponent wants to use fast Melta (Valk Vets, Attack Bikes, Land Speeders, etc.) to get at your Land Raider, well, you can make him think twice by keeping you DK in the back, just out of melta range, so that he sees, if he rushes in to melta something, the DK with intercept him with its 18" charge and decimate that unit before it even gets to shoot.. same goes for an enemy Deathstar, such as Biker Nobz or BA Chappie/Deathcompany or Seer Council, etc... if they see that their uber unit can be intercepted and held up by the DK, allowing your Paladins to then get the charge on theme when they are tied up in CC, then you have trumped their uber unit and they may change their strategy just because the threat the DK presents.

 

In terms of disadvantages, well, this is putting about a Land Raider's worth of points on one model and the DK is vulnerable to things like Dark Eldar splinter weapons, force weapons, and other capabilities which "ignore" its high toughness and multiple wounds. Also, it doesn't help too much with the issue you raised about dealing with MSU Dark Eldar Venom/Highborn/Darklight spam and Razorback spam, since it has to get close ot vehicles to do any damage and only gives your army the ability to engage one more vehicle per turn (vice picking up a couple of Psybacks for the same points). Finally, being a MC, a DK has a hard time getting cover, even hiding behind a Land Raider or your Ven Dread, so it can be hard to deny the enemy shooting against him.

 

Anyway, just some thoughts on another potential for bringing your list up to 2000 points. Would love to hear your take on this, even if you think this is a bad idea, since I like how your mind approaches things and I know it improves my thinking about 40K when I ready your analysis.

 

Also, please keep the battle reports coming.. they are outstanding!!

 

Thank you for your lovely detailed post, I do love when people make suggestions and back them up with a well laid out thought process so that myself and others can really assess what the viability of what has been suggested.

 

My personal feelings towards Dreadknights is not stella however, if I was to take one I would do so with the setup which you suggested perhaps without the teleporter to save points and use deep strike but that would be a matter of some considerable thought. I do like the hammer and at around 20 points cheaper than the sword I ahve always felt it is a better buy. St 10 is actually a huge upgrade for only 10 points though you do lose an attack like with the sword.

 

The application of the dread knight in my list would be exactly how you have stated though it also has the negatives you mentioned as well. Essentually I need to be able to effect more targets, preferably at range and the dread knight for me is not the best choice in this case. I would like some utility units like psybacks to block LOS to my paladins on their advance and to target other transports with, some other dreads to supress/wreck more transports earlier on would also be nice. In this way the dread knight does not really fit what I am after. It is definately not a bad choice in this list, and as you said it would draw attention away from the Landraider and Paladins as they require similar weapons to destroy however I'm not sure if it will be as effective as other units against a large variety of different opponents. I try to take units that I know will perform no matter the army I face. (The banisher I had initially was different due to the fact it completely allows me to dominate 1 army and other untis form other armies but is still onyl an 11 point upgrade on an acolyte)

 

I am still looking at going down the henchmen in razorback option at this point though I am still not 100% set on anything.

 

I will try to get some more battle reports written up, it has been a while.

 

Regards,

Crynn

[Black Memories]

With a heavy incinerator those DK's may be worth it. Play a game tonight with my new dragio wing list (got it for an absolute steal, too good to pass up). While the DK did take significant firepower, it survived just fine. Realistically anything aside from extensive low-ap shooting isn't even going to bother a DK. Your list probably has enough threats that it really could use the flexibility a DK could bring you. Any list lacking in low-ap fire simply isn't going to bring down a DK, and they create matchup problems against armies that can shoot GK's down. People tend to run them in pairs here and my friend who is IG has noted multiple times the thing he dislikes the most when playing GK armies is seeing dreadknights. Some armies seemingly just lack ways of dealing with them, and against others they will be a firepower soak. Both uses are effective. The way I see it is something has to be shot, might as well be the DK. Also worth noting that a DK with a PT has the mobility to avoid close range low-ap fire until it decides it actually is going to engage the targets on it's terms, and the 30 inch jump is very very nice. I don't know how I feel about making it a scoring unit since it does draw significant fire, but I'll have to see more later.

 

Also don't know how many necron players are in your area but that S6 incinerator template is going to pay dividends when you face scarab swarms from necrons. Just roast the whole set of them at once, vicious. Also ignoring the save for necron warriors is pretty beast as well. Lots of bonuses to running DKs. I really think they're one of the most underused units in the army. They remind me of a huge mephiston.

[Crynn]

With a heavy incinerator those DK's may be worth it. Play a game tonight with my new dragio wing list (got it for an absolute steal, too good to pass up). While the DK did take significant firepower, it survived just fine. Realistically anything aside from extensive low-ap shooting isn't even going to bother a DK. Your list probably has enough threats that it really could use the flexibility a DK could bring you. Any list lacking in low-ap fire simply isn't going to bring down a DK, and they create matchup problems against armies that can shoot GK's down. People tend to run them in pairs here and my friend who is IG has noted multiple times the thing he dislikes the most when playing GK armies is seeing dreadknights. Some armies seemingly just lack ways of dealing with them, and against others they will be a firepower soak. Both uses are effective. The way I see it is something has to be shot, might as well be the DK. Also worth noting that a DK with a PT has the mobility to avoid close range low-ap fire until it decides it actually is going to engage the targets on it's terms, and the 30 inch jump is very very nice. I don't know how I feel about making it a scoring unit since it does draw significant fire, but I'll have to see more later.

 

Also don't know how many necron players are in your area but that S6 incinerator template is going to pay dividends when you face scarab swarms from necrons. Just roast the whole set of them at once, vicious. Also ignoring the save for necron warriors is pretty beast as well. Lots of bonuses to running DKs. I really think they're one of the most underused units in the army. They remind me of a huge mephiston.

 

You make some very good points here however it still doesn't help solve my main weakness in being able to target multiple light vehicles each turn. It's firepower just isn't effective for that, and I also have plenty of anti infantry fire power. Now the dreadknights does absorb low ap shots however when it does get hit by them it is actually quite a weak unit, if I wanted a tough unit to absorb fire power I would take another land raider as it would allow me to shoot and block, but alas that really has no other purpose in my lost. I feel the dk will just be another combat threat and while fast it is no mephiston for the same points cost and that alone makes it not my first choice. The thing is, if I choose to take a dreadknights under the assumption it will draw fire I am going about list writing in the wrong way in my opinion. For nearly the same cost I could take 2 psyfleman dreads who will also draw fire but better than that they will supress or destoy enemy units first turn and actually reduce the return fire power that comes my way, this is significantly better than just drawing fire. I also feel the dreadknights has some bad match ups, it only takes mephiston and suddenly my dk can't be used offensively as he will litterally die in just one assault, also draigo wing players shouldn't be stressed by one either, whiches with shardnets and agonizers are another and I don't feel it gives me a huge advantage against many armies. The only reason I want one and that is so I can convert a contemptor dreadnaught into one!

 

Thanks for the response, I am really not sure what it would take to make me use a dk I really find my list cannot present enough targets in an opponents face early game to make use of one. Perhaps one on foot with a hammer and heavy incinerator that I could use to deep strike in? I'm just not sure.

 

Regards

Crynn

[Borinar]

Just to keep the ideas flowing.

 

Crynn,

 

Have you considered trading in Coteaz for a Xenos Inq with Grenades and Skulls to free up points to change the GKGM into Draigo? I haven't done the points but it is a different approach.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

An NDK with a PT and HI can work wonders versus transport spam such as razorbacks and chimeras. If you outflank him there is a decent chance your opponent won't give him much thought. When he arrives from reserve using the shunt move it's possible to drop his template on the rear side of two vehicles and you stand a decent chance to glance or pen them. Nothing can hide from an outflanking NDK's template if you use the shunt move the turn he arrives from reserve. I have found the NDK with PT and HI very useful versus razorspam... Pop the transports with say your psycannons and the NDK will eat the units that spill out in melee. He is safest stuck in melee and should easily be able to eat a small squad of Marines in no more than two rounds of melee. The NDK can roll up an entire enemy flank.

 

There are times when the NDK will simply get shot off the table such as versus dark eldar with lots of lances. I try to use him strategically versus such armies as dark eldar... You know he won't last long so he has to go after a target he can quickly trounce. He will suck up some enemy shooting for a turn as they often tend to be big fire magnets so you can use them as an expensive fire magnet if nothing else.

 

I only use one at 2500 points or more and I always outflank mine. The psyflemen are just a better all around unit in my opinion.

 

G :D

[Crynn]

Just to keep the ideas flowing.

 

Crynn,

 

Have you considered trading in Coteaz for a Xenos Inq with Grenades and Skulls to free up points to change the GKGM into Draigo? I haven't done the points but it is a different approach.

 

Thought about it however while draigo would be a lovely addition I lose a few things. 1 defensive grenades, the most under-rated bit of kit in that codex. 2 a huge amount of deepstrike defense I get when putting coteaz with the Paladins. 2 an additonal hammer hands though that can be given to another inquisitor, sanctuary which is a massive loss and dark ex which is still usefull at times. 3 the steal initiative ability. It means the opponent has to deploy knowing I have a 30% chance of stealing the initiative and when I deploy first I am almost 100% sure the first turn is mine. 4 that combo costs a little more and then I start playing draigowing and thus I become one of many, 'at least that's how some players look at it.

 

Regards,

Crynn

[L30n1d4s]

Crynn,

 

Any chance for more battle reports? Have truly enjoyed your other ones and would love to see some more.

 

Thanks

[Crynn]

Sorry it has been a while between Battle Reports, I will try to keep them coming though when I write them I like them to be detailed so guys know what is going on. As promised I wanted to write down this particular battle as it is the first game I have lost with this list. It was a friendly against one of my regular opponents; he is a good player and always a pleasure to play. So I’m guessing you all want to see what ruined the lists clean record well……This is how it went down.

 

BATTLE REPORT 10

 

 

GREY KNIGHTS VS INQUISITION (GREY KNIGHTS)

 

His list:

 

I can’t remember it exactly even though I helped him build the list and essentially he wanted to try and emulate my play style, however this is pretty darn close, may be 1 acolyte off or something.

HQ:

Coteaz

Librarian, sanctuary, shrouding, might of titan, the summoning.

Troops:

Henchmen – 5 jakero 4 warrior acolytes

Henchmen – 4 jakero 3 warrior acolytes and mystic

Henchmen – 8 henchman psychers, 1 acolyte – Rhino, dozer blades

Henchmen – 5 DC assassins 1 mystic - Razorback with a twinlinked lascannon, dozer blades

Elites:

7x purifiers with 7 halberds

Techmarine: Blind, rad and psychotroke grenades

Venerable Dreadnaught: psybolt ammunition 2x Twinlinked autocannons

Heavy Support:

Landraider: Psybolt ammunition

 

Mission: Kill Points:

 

Deployment: Dawn of War

 

I lost the role off which was a problem as I went second. This wouldn’t have been such an issue except for one game changing reason. I chose to play him on a table that would be advantageous for him as I was seeking a challenge and always look for games that will help me improve as a player. The table I chose had many ruins for him to bolster and it had a big tall one in the middle of the board. Due to the deployment type and him having first turn it allowed him to place both jakero henchmen units up high in 3+ cover (bolster defences) in the middle of the board with the librarian making it 2+ cover. This meant he had 9 immovable lascannons that were in range of my entire deployment zone which only had one small ruin in it.

As I couldn’t deploy anything on the board for fear of it being shot to death and my return fire would be hitting troops with 2+ cover saves I just decided to deploy nothing and put my paladins and strikes into reserve and wait for an opportune moment to land kill a vehicle and take the KP advantage. Even though this was a kill points mission I knew it could be a rough game, I just wasn’t prepared for what was about to ensue.

 

INQUISITION TURN 1:

 

Movement:

 

He moves everything onto the board and summons the land raider with coteaz in it close enough to get the lib inside and coteaz out into a jokero unit, due to his mystic in his DCA unit there is no scatter as he cleverly does so still within 6” of the DCAs razorback which had moved 12” on.

The rhino shuffled onto the board next to another big piece of ruin in his deployment zone as does his Ven Dread which sneaks up in the path the land raider took before being teleported.

 

Shooting:

 

He has nothing to shoot at but has set up great fire lanes for next turn.

 

GREY KNIGHTS TURN 1:

 

Movement:

 

I move my land raider up behind the only ruin in my deployment zone, it is opposite his jokero building, the Ven dread moves up behind the land raider out of site as night fight will probably mean it can’t see anything anyway. The GM coteaz and henchmen are in my raider.

 

Shooting:

 

The Land raider manages to spot a jokero unit in the night and wounds 3 times. Shrouding + bolster for 2+ cover sees none die. I literally will not be able to move him from there even with around 40 stormbolter shots and the area between my tiny building and his tower is just open, open terrain…

 

INQUISITION TURN 2:

 

Movement:

 

He moves the rest of the units up making sure each vehicle has cover the ven dread moves 6 inches sideways half behind the rhino with the henchman psychers in it.

 

Shooting:

 

Nothing can really see anything as I have managed to hide my landraider behind my ruin however the Jokero on top of the building can see it though they can’t see its front armour and thus the raider had a 3+ cover save. None the less the 9 jokero lascannons score a glancing hit, I fail my cover saves and he destroys a weapon, the left lascannon sponson, annoying but not a biggy. Nothing else can see so nothing else can shoot.

 

GREY KNIGHTS TURN 2:

 

Movement:

 

Now is the time for me to strike, I cast psychic communion on my GM in his raider who passes and is out of the librarians hood range. Unfortunately I get a bad result, 6 for the strikes and a 2 for the Paladins meaning I cannot adjust the dice in any way to make units drop down or prevent them from doing so and am left having to drop the strikes unsupported by the paladins. I opt to be safe and drop them a few inches from my land raider using the mystic to avoid scatter. They are behind cover but in a clump, I realize that they can all be hit by the henchman psyche squad as he can use his lib to summon the unit to the other side of his own land raider and then fire at me however he will do so at LD 4 due to my ven dread. It’s a risk I have to take as instead of running I want to fire on the smaller Jokero unit in order to try and force a morale check, or at least kill a lascannon or two.

The landraider stays put the ven dread moves out a little just to see his razorback but still getting cover from my ruin.

I then do a move which will along with horrible dice cost me the game. I get Coteaz out of the land raider and join him to the strike unit in order to make sure that they are Ld 10 in case they are forced to take a Ld test. Fair enough, they are only about 9” from the board edge and it literally halves the chances of them failing a Ld test. However for some stupid reason I also decide to get the Grand Master out and join the unit, I have no idea why I decided to do this and really it should have had little effect on the game but I was going to pay dearly for this mistake.

 

Shooting:

 

The whole strike unit + coteaz and the GM who can’t see to fire open up with 16 storm bolter shots, 4 psycannons shots and 3 bird attacks from coteaz dealing 13 wounds, note he had already successfully cast Shrouding. Through allocation he is forced to put 5 saves on the jokero but none die the other 8 saves he fails just 1 meaning I didn’t even kill the 2 that I needed to force a morale check. That hurts a bit as well.

My land raider fires at the same unit with its twin linked heavy bolter but again achieves nothing.

My Ven dread fires into the Razorback I can see but he passes 2 cover saves to avoid a pen and glancing hit.

 

INQUISITION TURN 3:

 

Movement:

 

As predicted he summons the henchmen psycher unit who moved outside their rhino to the other side of his landraider as to be able to see my strike knights. Some other units shuffle around the back and his ven dread moves in order to just be able to see my ven dread.

 

Shooting:

 

First up the psychers go for their psychic barrage at Ld 4 and what do you know, he rolls a 1 and a 3. Brilliant he manages to just fire as to avoid my cover saves and rolls for scatter, scatters only 1 inch, go figure, he hits 8 strike knights, rolls to wound 8 dead. Next he fires the 5 man unit of jokero that can see my remaining knights, only 4 can them though however with 4 lascannons he hits and wounds 3 times I go to ground putting 1 wound on coteaz and 2 on the strikes. With 3+ saves Coteaz and 1 strike knight die… errrr. Next jokero unit can see with two of their lascannons wounds once on a strike but I pass my 3+ cover save

 

Next he fires the razorback at my landraider however the lascannon reflects off its side armour. His ven dread is just able to my own ven dread with just 1 arm so can only fire with one twin linked auto cannon, he is also in my front arc but can only see my side armour so I have a 3+ cover save. The ven dread hits and then Pens with 2 shots. I save 1. He rolls a 5, I ask him to reroll it, he rolls a six. My ven dread explodes to a single twinlinked autocannon when in 3+ cover. At this point I’m in a bad bad position already 2 Kill Points down, but not to give up hope yet.

 

 

GREY KNIGHTS TURN 3:

 

Movement:

 

I roll reserves for my Paladins but unfortunately roll a 2. If I hadn’t been stupid and got my GM out of the landraider I could have used psychic communion and had them drop but as he was pinned on the ground this wasn’t to be the case. I need to move the land raider in front of the GM and remaining strike knight in order to protect them from being killed by lascannons for another 2 Kill points next turn. I pivot the land raider to drive in front of them to shield the pinned warriors and am required to make a DT check due to having to roll over some terrain. I roll a 1, I don’t get to shield them and my land raider is immobilized behind a building where it can’t see anything to shoot other than its heavy bolter. Awesome, I think we can see where this is going. I also have a unit of death cults that has no way of making it across the open terrain without being blasted.

 

Shooting:

 

The entirety of my shooting phase is shooting the land raiders heavy bolter at a unit of jokero, it kills 1 acolyte but still no morale test forced.

 

INQUISITON TURN 4:

 

Movement:

 

my opponent moves the psychers in order to see the remaining strike knight and GM who are pinned rather in the open to the psychers line of view. His land raider shuffles forward and the DCA and their razorback do the same. He really doesn’t have to move at all

 

Shooting:

 

The psychers shoot at the strike and GM perils on a double 6 killing all but the acolyte who fails his Ld test and flees towards the board, they did the dmg already though. Both units of Jokero fire into the GM and strike killing them both, I am now 4 KPs down. His Lascannon razorback also stuns my Land Raider.

 

GREY KNIGHTS TURN 4:

 

Movement:

 

I roll for reserves needing a 2+ knowing that I need my Paladins to come down to make some kind of game out of this. I roll….. another 1.

With no unit but the deathcults capable of moving I have nothing else move at all

 

Shooting:

 

My Land Raider passes it’s fortitude test and I fire the only thing I can fire, it’s twin linked heavy bolter. I fire into the same small Jokero unit but thanks to shrouding, again achieve nothing.

 

 

INQUISITION TURN 5:

 

Movement:

 

Sensing Victory my opponent does nothing. His acolyte that was originally a member of the psycher unit falls off the board granting me my first Kill Point, yay!

 

Shooting:

 

The ven dread and razorback combined with the jokero fire into my Land Raider destroying its heavybolter and stunning it again, it now can no longer participate in the game.

 

 

 

GREY KNIGHTS TURN 5:

 

Movement:

 

At this point its 4 KPs to 1 and I realize that even if I come down and kill a unit per turn and it goes to 7 turns I can’t win or draw knowing that my landraider won’t survive another round of shooting. Knowing this I decide to split my paladins and start trying to get some easier Kill points.

I drop 5 Paladins with 2 MC psycannons about 20 inches from his raider close enough that I can charge some jokero next turn though I know he can charge me with his purifiers who will most likely kill my 5 paladins. My other 5 Pallies drop on the other side of the jokero building where they can hunt down the rhino and razorback. (coteaz is out of LOS to one Paladin unit and the other is just out of 12” so no firing on them with Jokero)

 

I also jump my DCA out of the raider and run them towards the Paladin unit who may be charged by the purifiers next turn so that they can support if necessary.

 

Shooting:

 

I had dropped my first unit of Paladins so that they could fire on the Land Raider without it having cover, knowing that if I killed it I would not only get a KP but stop the Purifiers from getting to me. I roll to hit and get 7 hits thanks 2 MC psycannons and roll one pen, damage table = 5 yes! Wait wait. He had cast shrouding and thus is entitled to a 6+ cover save and he rolls…… yeap you guessed it a 6. At this point I realize there is no tactics in the world that can save me but I battle on trying to make a game out of it.

 

My second Paladin unit shoots at the rhino with no cover, with both psycannons I manage to wreck it.

I run my DCA unit towards the first paladins unit rolling a 5 for run.

 

We roll for next turn and we get it

 

INQUISITION TURN 6:

 

Movement:

 

He moves the DCA razorback moves towards the first paladin unit but also close enough that coteaz is able to join the unit from the jokero unit. The land raider storms forward spewing out purifiers and the techmarine, the librarian stays in the raider. The jokero unit closest to the paladins that killed the rhino move back through cover towards the razorback which had driven up around 9 inches with the DCA inside. The razorback pops smoke as well.

 

Shooting:

 

The 3 jokero + 2 acolyte unit still in the building remove 1 Paladin from the paladins about to be charged by the purifiers, I remove a halberd as when he charges me I’ll be I1 anyway. The razorback can’t shoot as it moved too farand popped smoke the Raider fails to kill a paladin with 1 of its lascannons due to cover. The ven dread also fires at the paladins however the paladins save all 3 wounds. The jokero unit runs 5 inches behind the razorback now being out of assault range of the paladins

 

Assault:

 

As expected the Purifiers charge the 4 remaining Paladins, the psychotrokes reducing me to i1 which was already done by the psychout grenades. I cast Hammerhand but am nulled by the lib, he casts hammerhands from the purifiers and another from the techmarine at LD8 damn him getting him to str 6 which combined with rad grenades means he can ID my paladins. His attacks cause 6 wounds in total, each model taking 2 except a paladin with a sword who is in B2B of the tech marine and a paladin with a psycannon and sword. All fail a save except the sword wielding palaldin who uses his attacks to kill the techmarine. Before going down the tech marine attacks with his servo harness but to no avail and the lone paladin lives. I lose combat get run down by the purifiers and am forced to take 8 wounds I fail 1 and the Paladin lives as I had hoped, now my DCA can counter attack the unit.

 

GREY KIGHTS TURN 6:

 

 

Movement:

 

I move my remaining Paladin unit of 4 towards the razorback containing the DCA unit. My DCA close in on the purifiers.

 

Shooting:

 

The 4 Palaidins unload their two psycannons into the razorback immobilizing it only due to popping smoke the previous turn.

 

Assault:

 

His Coteaz successfully casts sanctuary however the purifiers are out of range and the DCA easily make combat, the paladins charge the Razorback moving 4 inches through the difficult terrain coteaz and 1 taking a wound to dangerous terrain. The Paladin unit in combat with the razorback successfully casts hammerhands even through the Libs psychic hood and a halberd manages to explode the razorback killing 2 DCA and a mystic in the process however they do not get pinned or fall back due to Coteaz being Ld 10. The explosion also kill an acolyte from the Jokero unit

 

In the other combat my opponent successfully cast purifying flame killing 2 DCA and the acolyte in the same unit. His 6 halberds that are forced on the paladin manage to kill him, the remaining 8 kill another DCA and the mystic with one DCA passing his invuln. The DCA kill all but one of the purifiers who holds due to fearless and survives the saves he is forced to make.

At this point I have pulled it back a little and the Kill Points stand at 5/4

 

We roll for another turn and we get it. I can actually draw this if my paladins kill something or my DCA unit survives the remaining 1 purifier, maybe even win!

 

INQUISITION TURN 7:

 

 

Movement:

 

He moves the raider towards the DCA and runs them inside with coteaz and the lib knowing that the paladins would easily kill them without the rad grenades helping the DCA be able to insta killi my paladins due to toughness 3, he would also have to put both his lib and coteaz on the line to try and wipe the paladins and both are easy KP if he fails which would be likely. The land raider also pops smoke to protect it from the Paladin Psycannons. The Jokero unit that was running continues to do so and runs alongside the Land raider

 

Shooting:

 

The remaining jokero runs behind the raider out of LOS of the Paladins The Ven dread fires into the paladins killing 1 leaving just the psycannons and a hammer

 

Assault:

 

This is where I can pull it back 3 DCA need to beat one purifier. The purifier successfully casts purifiying flame and luckily wounds two, unluckily for me I fail both saves. One DCA attacks the purifier hitting twice and getting the wound he needs however the halberd wielding purifier still has his two attacks and lands a hit, which turns into a wound, and kills my DCA.. Grr If I had just passed one of those 5+ invulns this combat I would have drawn the game here.

 

GREY KNIGHTS TURN 7:

 

Movement:

 

My paladins move through DT (razorback wreckage) only 3 inches towards the raider, the jokero unit up the top of the building I will not be able to charge as a roll of 3 doesn’t even get me up one of the two levels I need to climb to get to them making charging now impossible.

 

Shooting:

 

My opponent again successfully casts shrouding giving the jokero a 2+ cover and the LR a 3+ cover I have to kill one, obviously I am not going to kill 3 models out of the jokero unit to force an Ld test so I go for the Land raider and unfortunately fail to rend.

 

GAME ENDS 6 Kill Points to 5 in my mates favour and my list suffers its first loss.

 

So what can be taken away from this… My dice were absolute :cuss and he rolled some great dice when it counted? Sure that is fairly accurate. Did it cost me the game? In many ways it did, however there was also another factor that cost me the game. It wasn’t my landraider immobilizing itself or his 6+ cover save to save his own landraider, it wasn’t even my paladins rolling a 1 not to come down turn 4. it was my mistake of getting my GM out of the landraider and putting him into the strike squad. Now he was very lucky to eliminate that squad with a Ld 4 psycher blast however I gained nothing from putting the GM in there. That one move saw my GM out in the open and in a position where I had to move my land raider to protect him causing it to be immobilized and him to then be killed adding another KP to my enemy. Also I lost access to Psychic Communion which if I had kept the GM in the raider I could have cast to bring the paladins down from reserves turn 3 as I rolled a 2 which could have been turned into a 3. This means I wouldn’t have had to split them and played them so aggressively in order to make up Kill points, over 7 turns I probably could have come back to win that even with an immobilized land raider, a ven dread that popped early and minus Coteaz and the strike unit.

So the lesson here is this. Dice can and will cost players games however, much of the time these bad dice could have been circumvented by being a better general.

I had some bad luck in that game but that happens, it’s a game of dice but ultimately I lost that game because I made a mistake. I will never make that mistake again and because of that have probably got more out of this game than many of my wins.

So I hope you all enjoyed that battle report, I will endeavour to write more when some interesting games come up or the list gets some tournament time. On a side note I played my mate who won this game straight after and managed to grab the win in a 4 objective mission at least giving me the satisfaction of revenge, hehe. The list now stands at 23/1/1 so still stellar results.

 

 

Regards,

 

Crynn

[RedemptionNL]

It's like the dice gods punished you for making your mistake. :rolleyes: I bet you were wishing you had a Heavy Incinerator around somewhere when faced against 9 lascannons with a 2+ cover save. But it still proves the power of your list and tactics that even though you had bad luck, you could have won if it wasn't for the mistake. Your reports are most informative at least, I will have to a similar list a try. :rolleyes:

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Very intense batreP !! You almost pulled it out in the end. Terible situation with terrain and truly horrid dice - id burn them if I were you. That is something that can be a problem with small elite armies - its easier to suffer from bad dice due to less rolls. Well done with what you had to work with which wasnt much.

 

G :lol:

[Something Wycked]

Oh man, the first half of that BatRep was painful to read, Crynn! I'm just impressed that you came so close to a draw. If even one of those handful of random events had gone your way, it would have been a draw... Very interesting battle, though. I was expecting the result to be far worse than it was.

 

Kind of like American Football, in a way... Who knows how the ball is going to bounce? :lol:

 

Thanks for writing that up for us :)

[nurglez]

2+ cover saves are why I love heavy incinerators. We've all had games like that, and it sounds like you did well to close the gap as much as you did.

[Crynn]

It's like the dice gods punished you for making your mistake. :) I bet you were wishing you had a Heavy Incinerator around somewhere when faced against 9 lascannons with a 2+ cover save. But it still proves the power of your list and tactics that even though you had bad luck, you could have won if it wasn't for the mistake. Your reports are most informative at least, I will have to a similar list a try. :)

 

Thanks for all the support guys and positive feedback even with my loss! Funny you all mentioned an Incinerator. I have wanted to take one for a long time however obviously it could never replace a paladins psycannon! However 5 pts on a GM seems pretty good right? I have always thought it was an excellent upgrade except for the fact if you are close enough to use it effectively you can almost always charge with the GM and whatever unit he is with in which case firing the incinerator may be detremental because if the opponent removes the correct models it could very well leave you out charge range.

 

In saying all this it matters little as the only incinerator I would take would be on my GM who wasn't around very long in that game, however, it has renewed my interest in whether or not I should look at fitting him with one.

 

What do you guys think? There are just so many good ways to spend 5 pts in the GK codex, MC Paladin weapon, Servo Skull, Psy Bolt on a land Raider, Incinerator.

 

Regards,

Crynn

[nurglez]

I'd lose a MC wep for an incinerator. I pay 20 points to give my 2 plague marine champs combi flamers, just in case heh.

[Crynn]

I'd lose a MC wep for an incinerator. I pay 20 points to give my 2 plague marine champs combi flamers, just in case heh.

 

I agree in principle however in my 20 or so games with my GM I haven't actually had a chacne to use an incinerator as it may have stopped my Paladins charging and they almost always wipe things anyway. It seems so odd that a MC weapon may be more usefull than an incinerator. I just don't know.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I have found that the incinerator does well versus non GK Marine units when the GM is soloing. Your going to score a lot of wounds and it helps to thin them down before the charge. The incinerator is a very practical weapon.

 

G <_<

[RedemptionNL]

The only case where I could see an Incinerator on your GM useful is when an opponent that is tough to remove by regular shooting is on the second story of a ruin and you don't want to waste time going up after them. You probably know how unlucky one can get with a move through cover roll scoring high enough to go up a level when you need it most. :rolleyes: If they're in a building with fire points you could also get some easy hits before blowing up the building I guess.

 

Of course, in cases like this it's where the Heavy Incinerator shines most, as it can even easily reach opponents on 3rd or higher floors, but alas, the only platform it is available on is the Dreadknight, and it doesn't really synergize with your list as you mentioned. :cuss

[L30n1d4s]

If you are still considering bringing your list up to 2000 points, one option to get Incinerators is to take a 5 man Purgation Squad with four incinerators, a Daemonhammer, and a Psyback.... for just 155 pts, that gives you a vehicle to block LOS/firing lanes and use its S6 Heavy Bolter to suppress enemy vehicles.... you also get 4 Incinerators which move 12" in their DT, then pop out and drop 4 S6 templates on something... if you use GS to give the Purgators the Scout USR, then you could feasibly cross the entire 24" of the board by Turn 1 and use your flamers on that unit dug into terrain before they could effect a lot of the game (kind of suicidal for that Purgation squad, of course)... alternately, you could use Scout to cause the Purgation Squad/Psyback to Outflank and thereby roll up the enmy flank on later turns (especially in conjunction with Psychic Communion). Finally, if your GS rolls a 5-6, you could make the Purgators scoring on top of the Paladins and Ven Dread, giving you a third unit to use that capability on. The Daemonhammer on the Purgation Justicar means that the unit can still take someone down with it if it is assaulted by an IC (and for 5 points, it is a pretty good bargain I think.... why is it that the "shooty" Purgation squad gets cheaper CC weapons that the Interceptor squads???.. Oh well, who knows :huh: ).

 

All of this still gives you 95 points left for enhancing your army... perhaps a second Psyback for the Strike Squad, plus Psybolts for their Storm Bolters, Psybolts for your Land Raider's Heavy Bolter, and a Warding Stave for your Paladins. So, in total, you would have:

 

-Your current army at 1750

 

+

 

-3 independently shooting S6 Heavy Bolters for suppressing transports/dealing with hordes

-2 additional light vehicles for blocking LOS, tank shocking, and even carrying your infantry if you need to move 12" in a pinch

-Your entire Strike Squad using S5 Storm Bolters now, even if they combat squad

-Another wound allocation diversification for your Paladins (you should be down to only 2 Halberds being the same now) and the ability to block at least one Powerfist attack on a 2+ per turn in CC (if it saves just one Paladin from ID by a S8 CC weapon or a Force Weapon, the Warding Stave gets more than double its points back)

-The ability to "nuke" a targeted unit with 4 S6 Templates... great against hordes and even able to take down MEQs, if used properly.... perhaps most importantly, can dig units our of cover, like from you last game....30 man IG Blog squad with 3 Lascannons and a 'Stealth Pants' Lord Commissar getting a 3+ cover save and plinking your Paladins down? If they are tightly packed, it is not implausible that the Incinerators might get 6-7 hits a piece, which would translate to around 20 dead Guardsmen in one round of shooting.

 

The major weakness of this option is tha you gain three more kill points and they are all relatively easy to take out (2 x AV11 hulls and a 5 man MEQ unit)... that said, I think they might compliment your current list well and round out some of the (few) areas that it might be a little vulnerable right now, mainly long range vehicle suppression and shooty units dug into heavy cover. Anyway, just some thoughts

 

 

PS One more thing I forgot to add... with Necrons upon us, I think one of the great threats to GKs in general (and your list included) is massed Scarabs.... if they get into CC with your Land Raider and/or Ven Dread, they are very likely to either destroy them or weaken them so they can be easily destroyed later... i.e. then the LR can't fulfill its role of providing an AV14 wall to shield your forces from S8 and below shots... also, Scarabs can potentially really hurt your Paladins, since even with wound allocation, if they lose their 2+ save, they will go down quickly to almost anything..... so, why do I bring all of this up? Well, S6 and up is the key to beating Scarabs.. currently your list has 6 Psycannons (20-24 shots a turn), 2 TLed S8 Autocannons (4 shots a turn), 2 TLed LCs (2 shots a turn), and potentially a lot of S6 attacks in CC.... while that should be able to take down a lot of Scarabs, if they are massed (as I see a lot of net losts doing now) that may not be enough.... by adding 9 S6 Heavy Bolter shots and 4 x S6 Templates, I think you would have the "trump card" on Scarab hordes before they got into CC with your army and critically weakened some of its key elements (i.e. the Land Raider, Ven Dread, and Paladins)

 

PPS These thoughts above are just conjecture... would love to see your list in action against a competitive Necron army... any chance you will be playing one of those soon? ;)

[Crynn]

If you are still considering bringing your list up to 2000 points, one option to get Incinerators is to take a 5 man Purgation Squad with four incinerators, a Daemonhammer, and a Psyback.... for just 155 pts, that gives you a vehicle to block LOS/firing lanes and use its S6 Heavy Bolter to suppress enemy vehicles.... you also get 4 Incinerators which move 12" in their DT, then pop out and drop 4 S6 templates on something... if you use GS to give the Purgators the Scout USR, then you could feasibly cross the entire 24" of the board by Turn 1 and use your flamers on that unit dug into terrain before they could effect a lot of the game (kind of suicidal for that Purgation squad, of course)... alternately, you could use Scout to cause the Purgation Squad/Psyback to Outflank and thereby roll up the enmy flank on later turns (especially in conjunction with Psychic Communion). Finally, if your GS rolls a 5-6, you could make the Purgators scoring on top of the Paladins and Ven Dread, giving you a third unit to use that capability on. The Daemonhammer on the Purgation Justicar means that the unit can still take someone down with it if it is assaulted by an IC (and for 5 points, it is a pretty good bargain I think.... why is it that the "shooty" Purgation squad gets cheaper CC weapons that the Interceptor squads???.. Oh well, who knows :huh: ).

 

All of this still gives you 95 points left for enhancing your army... perhaps a second Psyback for the Strike Squad, plus Psybolts for their Storm Bolters, Psybolts for your Land Raider's Heavy Bolter, and a Warding Stave for your Paladins. So, in total, you would have:

 

-Your current army at 1750

 

+

 

-3 independently shooting S6 Heavy Bolters for suppressing transports/dealing with hordes

-2 additional light vehicles for blocking LOS, tank shocking, and even carrying your infantry if you need to move 12" in a pinch

-Your entire Strike Squad using S5 Storm Bolters now, even if they combat squad

-Another wound allocation diversification for your Paladins (you should be down to only 2 Halberds being the same now) and the ability to block at least one Powerfist attack on a 2+ per turn in CC (if it saves just one Paladin from ID by a S8 CC weapon or a Force Weapon, the Warding Stave gets more than double its points back)

-The ability to "nuke" a targeted unit with 4 S6 Templates... great against hordes and even able to take down MEQs, if used properly.... perhaps most importantly, can dig units our of cover, like from you last game....30 man IG Blog squad with 3 Lascannons and a 'Stealth Pants' Lord Commissar getting a 3+ cover save and plinking your Paladins down? If they are tightly packed, it is not implausible that the Incinerators might get 6-7 hits a piece, which would translate to around 20 dead Guardsmen in one round of shooting.

 

The major weakness of this option is tha you gain three more kill points and they are all relatively easy to take out (2 x AV11 hulls and a 5 man MEQ unit)... that said, I think they might compliment your current list well and round out some of the (few) areas that it might be a little vulnerable right now, mainly long range vehicle suppression and shooty units dug into heavy cover. Anyway, just some thoughts

 

 

PS One more thing I forgot to add... with Necrons upon us, I think one of the great threats to GKs in general (and your list included) is massed Scarabs.... if they get into CC with your Land Raider and/or Ven Dread, they are very likely to either destroy them or weaken them so they can be easily destroyed later... i.e. then the LR can't fulfill its role of providing an AV14 wall to shield your forces from S8 and below shots... also, Scarabs can potentially really hurt your Paladins, since even with wound allocation, if they lose their 2+ save, they will go down quickly to almost anything..... so, why do I bring all of this up? Well, S6 and up is the key to beating Scarabs.. currently your list has 6 Psycannons (20-24 shots a turn), 2 TLed S8 Autocannons (4 shots a turn), 2 TLed LCs (2 shots a turn), and potentially a lot of S6 attacks in CC.... while that should be able to take down a lot of Scarabs, if they are massed (as I see a lot of net losts doing now) that may not be enough.... by adding 9 S6 Heavy Bolter shots and 4 x S6 Templates, I think you would have the "trump card" on Scarab hordes before they got into CC with your army and critically weakened some of its key elements (i.e. the Land Raider, Ven Dread, and Paladins)

 

PPS These thoughts above are just conjecture... would love to see your list in action against a competitive Necron army... any chance you will be playing one of those soon? ;)

 

Thanks for this detailed response mate, I am dying to play a competitive necrons army however I am yet to find a person with one of even 1500points let alone 1750, I guess I will just have to wait a little longer. To be honest I dont fear the crons too much at the moment I feel they really struggle to kill AV 14 and dont have many weapons that can instant death Paladins. Scarabs will hurt the raider if they get there however If my paladins touch them I will destroy even a 20 base unit before they attack with no trouble so I am not worried about them touching my paladins. If they make it to my Ven Dread then I have done somethign seriously wrong. I am still most afraid of MSU armies with lots of dual/triple melta (Wolves, Guard) and things like venom spam dark eldar with dark lances and blasters everywhere. In that way Iw ant to maxamize anti vehicle at range and LOS blocking for paladins so psy backs is where I want to go. I am playing a 1750 point tournament in late January so hopefully I'll see some crons, and another 1850 in early feb and for that I am looking to add psybolt ammo to the strikes get a psyback with dozerblade 2 henchmen and 1 psycher as well as 3 seachlight for all my vehicles for those pesky crons and their night fight. the 1 psycher is because he is only 6 points more than the 4 point acolyte I have to take but it means that this 3 man unit can fire a str 3 large blast from long range and actually be annoying, remember that blast is only on an 18 point unit! I'd say thats pretty good! If it kills a marine or 3 orcs I am already back in points. At 200 points I think I would add another psyfleman dread not venerable an incinerator on my GM and 2 more MC weapons on Paladins or a hunter killer on the razorback (yes I rate hunter killers). At 1850 I have only added two kill points one of which is only worth 18 points so I am quite happy to reserve it for as long as possible and bring it on late game in a corner where it wont be touched.

 

SO all up I will add an incinerator in 2000 mabe in 1850 on my GM however once things are close I can genereally charge with my paladins and my DCA so Incinerators are not quite that important for me. Also I have never found the warding staff to be necessary on my Paladins as with my GM having all the grenades they generally wipe anything they hit before it charges. On a side note I have a 1500 point tournament in just under 3 weeks and am taking my 1750 and dropping 5 of the paladins but adding in a psyback for the strikes to use so all that discussion about bringing the list down to 1500 was well worth while. Now we will see if 5 paladins can work in 1500. Hopefully the psyback blocking fire from the can see all 5 make combat with the GM unscathed. Overall I feel the list is weaker at 1500 though.

 

So in the next 2-3 months there will be a few good tournaments where I am taking close varients of this list so we will see how it can adapt at different point levels.

 

Regards,

Crynn