Educated Dark Angel Speculation

[Brother Chaplain Ginn]

This last page discussion is just begging the new writer to take Wardesqe Retcon liberties. I have no issue with that...but it's almost necessary if DA are going to get a proper identity.

 

I don't care if Deathwing are crazed scalp takers and the ravening are daredevil bike riders as long as they get a unique playstyle that's not just a simple analogue of SM/GK. Hit me with a cool fluff story where entrants to the inner circle are evaluated as to which CO they join and I'm good. Heck carve DA on the side of the Fang as an entry test.

 

As far as fluff reinforcing identity established by rules, then the "monkish shame/clear my name vendetta" is merely the plot of the chapter. The method of their execution/style of play is what needs to be fixed. When the monks get real the DW/RW take the field and use x rules to bike/terminator joint force the bad guys to death. X characters exist within the DW/RW/GW and use Y method to execute their monkish shame/name clearing.

 

Y could be plasma rerolls, preferred enemy, the cool stuff which people will either deem too/not DA enough and or UP/OP.

 

The special way the DA need to execute their monkish shame erasing/name clearing vendetta accomplishing...the DW and RW are the tools the DA use and outline their playstyle...the whole purpose of this thread was intended to interpret changes to current units within the current DA paradigm, while using other codexes to correlate and postulate.

[Brother Chaplain Ginn]

So to further the discussion...

 

BA have there black rage and special rules to suit, not to mention unique vehicles.

BA characters don't negate/change this they do cool stuff just whoop ass, force org change for Sguard.

 

SW focus is there special characters with no real army wide cool rules to speak of.

SW besides having tits characters they also have tits troops, heavys, etc. Just hard fail in that book.

 

BT have there unique zeal - LD passing rules, blended 20man squads.

BT to my limited knowledge don't change or negate their zeal they just CC.

 

Grey Knights just do everything well, and use different weapons to strike at each initiative step. (their rule/style)

GK characters, minus the Inquisitor grenade/assassin spam, are CC beasts and change force org (DAish)

 

SM are "balanced"

SM special rules allow CC, change force org, buff troops, allow outflank to do it all...

 

DA have DW/RW and only Deathwing Assault to claim as an "cool special" rule, not that amazing IMO.

DA characters merely change FO, which does nothing near as creative as what it could. The holy Grail of DA design will be to either design unique characters to add the right flavor while changing force org, or change the rules/force org as a base to allow characters which exist outside the other-above armies paradigms.

 

Plasma meh. Shooty bolter drill knock off meh, character to unlock DW/RW who is a bit of a CC monster meh seen in with GK. I don't think it's greedy to ask for more. We should all be open to some good Retconing to get us to be in a position where unique and wholly different rules make sense. I'm open to it.

[Chaplain Lucifer]

Shot across the bow: either people stop picking on each other or alot of posts will disapear and/or thread (and future threads) gets closed until we're discussing rumors , not discussing wishlists like here. <this is a wishlist thread so everybody is entitled to an opinion no matter how odd or accurate it is.

So if mods see anymore of this bickering between members, everybody involved may get burned in the melta blast.

[Brother Immolator]

It was Landrain and Immolator that leapt on my list and had a go at me for it, I was merely defending myself.

 

I'm a troll for giving my opinion and then defending myself when I was taken to task over it by Landrain and Immolator? Not quite.

 

Sorry but something needs clarifying here.

 

Just when did i forced you to defend yourself?Or insulted you for that matter?

 

Picked on your list and had a go at you?Are you serious man?Check my first post and subsequent posts again.I was merely displaying my opinion and my points of why i dont agree with you.If there is anyone that can say that has to go on the defense it has to be me,since i can identify a couple of potential ill meanings in your posts,yet i let it drop because this the internet i cant hear the tone of voice so misunderstandings happen.But i guess you HAVE to get the last word even when the other calls to remain silent no?

 

Can't say I'm too surprised...

 

Neither i am believe me.

[riddles]

Let's get this back on topic, shall we?

 

With the confirmation of DA being in the box set and it looking like DA are in the starter paint set, we're clearly getting a push. This is good.

 

I made a fairly hefty post on Warseer a couple of weeks ago entitled "Why It Wouldn't Be A Bad Thing for Dark Angels to be the new Poster Boys". I left the thread after people responding clearly didn't bother to read the first post.

 

My point was simply this:

- Aside from the Deathwing and the Ravenwing, the Dark Angels have largely followed the Codex Astartes since their inception (Codex: Angels of Death). That is, tactical superiority through our awesomeness. Much like the Ultramarines, much like the Imperial Fists etc.

- We have had some fluff about us having older technology, which translated to MOAR PLASMA.

- You stick Belial in the existing vanilla space marine book (replacing combat tactics with fearless and giving terminators as troops) and Sammael (replacing combat tactics with scout and making bikers troops) and the rest of the Dark Angels book, aside from Azrael and Ezekiel, is represented very well.

- You change terminator squads to allow mixed armament, but make it so a full THSS unit is around 220 (base cost 175, THSS for 10 points).

 

That's it. 5 minutes is all it would take to make a viable Dark Angels codex within the Marine book. Aside from upsetting die hard dark angels players, what are the benefits?

- Less development time making *another* divergent marine codex.

- Therefore, more time to dedicate to the Xenos codexes that need it - Eldar, Tau, Daemons, Tyranids (yes, i know its a 5th edition book)

- If good quality army books and models come out for these 3 armies, people will play them. No longer will the ULTRABLOODWOLFKNIGHTANGELS exist and GW will get more cross sell because rather than buying, say, a Storm Raven for your homebrew chapter to play a blood angels list, you buy a whole new army.

- More variety in armies on the tabletop at the casual and tournament level will attract more players to the game

 

In business terms, the space marine is a cash cow. Its always going to sell well and have a presence on the shelves. There are enough marine books that if one gets too far out of date, you can jump to another one if you are so inclined. Your niche/growth products are the Eldar and Tau of this world and they need more investment.

 

So regardless of what I'd like to see from a fanboy point of view in the new codex, I would say the sensible option is to roll us up into a unified marine dex. With this in mind, I'll take whatever GW gives us. We'll find out by the end of the year anyway. That said, if my deathwing become unplayable, i'll ragequit and i'm not ashamed to admit it.

[Brother Immolator]

A small problem i came to identify while browsing the wishlists of all upcoming dexes after/prior to sixth.

 

All of us tend to keep in the existing guidelines of our current codex or the marine one or a mix of both, with either major or minor tweaks and inclusions of new units and a couple of rules.

 

The 'problem' (if we call it that) is that we dont know the 6th ed rule-setting (which according to hearsay its going to be shifted radically,there is even a rumor that says ranged combat will be the OP of this edition) thereby, i fear our casting in stone certain things will work against us:

 

- Aside from the Deathwing and the Ravenwing, the Dark Angels have largely followed the Codex Astartes since their inception (Codex: Angels of Death). That is, tactical superiority through our awesomeness. Much like the Ultramarines, much like the Imperial Fists etc.

- We have had some fluff about us having older technology, which translated to MOAR PLASMA.

- You stick Belial in the existing vanilla space marine book (replacing combat tactics with fearless and giving terminators as troops) and Sammael (replacing combat tactics with scout and making bikers troops) and the rest of the Dark Angels book, aside from Azrael and Ezekiel, is represented very well.

- You change terminator squads to allow mixed armament, but make it so a full THSS unit is around 220 (base cost 175, THSS for 10 points).

 

That's it. 5 minutes is all it would take to make a viable Dark Angels codex within the Marine book. Aside from upsetting die hard dark angels players, what are the benefits?

 

If i may use those quotations above to elaborate further.Thats the mechanics of 5th ed.IMHO more or less those are going to phase out.I am not saying that GW will invent a new wheel,but more and more i believe we are going to see a more radical change to the rules (again i say based on the rumors).

 

So at large we dont know what the new codex marines will be and we dont know if it will even allow the Dark Angels to be represented both fluffwise and tabletop wise accurately.

[riddles]

If i may use those quotations above to elaborate further.Thats the mechanics of 5th ed.IMHO more or less those are going to phase out.I am not saying that GW will invent a new wheel,but more and more i believe we are going to see a more radical change to the rules (again i say based on the rumors).

 

So at large we dont know what the new codex marines will be and we dont know if it will even allow the Dark Angels to be represented both fluffwise and tabletop wise accurately.

 

which doesn't stop wishlisting about 6th, nor about new codexes (by any race). I blame the internet!

 

The best thing for us to do is to sit tight. I've now played all 3 wings and a mix. A new codex is just a refreshing change. No more, no less.

[Brother Immolator]

which doesn't stop wishlisting about 6th, nor about new codexes (by any race). I blame the internet!

 

Neither it should IMHO,if one good idea gets across its a win win for us.I am more concerned of the viability of said ideas rather the ideas themselves.

 

The best thing for us to do is to sit tight. I've now played all 3 wings and a mix. A new codex is just a refreshing change. No more, no less.

 

Agreed to that,add there the vanilla codex in the 3 wings commend for me.Yes i shamefully admit,i did it in the past...I just love sternguard.

[WatchCaptainAzrael]

+5 Ballistic Skill also doesn't actually equate to being more shooty, just being better at it.

That sounds a bit contradictory...

 

Just to fan the fires though (sorry mods, I'm a Deathwatch fan and have to put this in)... Let's take a look at some of their Solo and Squad modes and what they unlock, shall we?

 

Their original offensive squad mode is called Sustained Suppression, which pretty much requires a gun capable of auto fire to operate.

 

Their original defensive squad mode is called Immovable Defence, and grants +10 to BS, +10 to dodge, and +4 Armor to all locations as long as they remain stationary. At rank 4, the bonuses to BS and Dodge become +20. From the looks of it, trading shots is something DAs are fond of.

 

Their new solo mode ability (as per the First Founding supplement), Storm of Vengeance (unlockable at rank 3), states that "While the Dark Angels adhere to the tenets of the Codex Astartes (for the most part) and are capable of utilising a wide range of tactics, a withering hail of bolter fire is a time-honoured tradition and one frequently used by the Dark Angels." How often are you favor "withering hails of bolter fire" for them to become a "time-honoured tradition"? I'd say once in a while.

 

Their other abilities revolve around stoicism and enduring blows, with the exception of the Squad Attack Mode Angel's Wrath, their sole -dedicated- melee Squad mode ability. Which inflicts a penalty on the enemy's dodge and parry tests (-10 standard, -20 at rank 4). Certainly a throwback to swordsmanship, but hardly their main focus overall.. Which is in making sure the enemy's bleeding through every natural orifice and a few artificial ones after swimming through a rain of assorted high-speed projectiles when they actually get to them.

 

On the Plasma side, and still on the Deathwatch side, if one would look in the Armory section, plasma weaponry, you would read: Plasma technology is frequently found in the hands of the Dark Angels, who have maintained a large number of such weapons and the art of their construction since their Founding." At least two of the DA relics in possession of the Deathwatch are shooting-related, one of which being a plasma pistol with the power of a felling plasma cannon, and without overheating issues. The other weapon is a power sword that imposes Willpower penalties on anyone Chaos-affiliated that sees it.

 

For all of this, I am of the group that thinks of our beloved Chapter as favoring shooting. They're not slouches in melee, they just prefer making the enemy come to them while they shoot its face off... then they chop it up with their blades once it's too tired to lift its arms to defend itself. Merciless and expedient warfare, the way the Lion intended.

 

Finally, and let's make this clear, this post is not meant as an "attack" on MadDoc. It was, however, meant to give an insight of what has been put to lore and rules in DW, as close to unbiased as I could make it.

 

Ahem..

 

My desires for the new Codex:

 

-An Angels of Vengeance IC.

-Generic Masters of the Deathwing/Ravenwing

-More knightly scholar stuff, this ain't just manhunting and torture

-Combined wargear loadouts as before

-Statline on par with fellow Marine codices

-Reliable plasma options

[riddles]

Agreed to that,add there the vanilla codex in the 3 wings commend for me.Yes i shamefully admit,i did it in the past...I just love sternguard.

 

I never went for sternguard. mortis riflemen all the way

[Brother Landrain]

Here is my change speculation... (wishlist)

• Update of Azrael, Ezekiel, Belial, Sammael stats to be at least consistent with C:SM.
  
• Honour guard for Azrael
  
• New list of Psychic powers for Ezekiel and all DA Librarians.
  
• Addition of Chaplain/Int Chaplain Special Characters, Asmodi/Sapphon
  
• Addition of special Int-Chaplain special rules and weapons
  
• Addition of Brother Bethor Standard Bearer upgrade.
  
• Update to Belial weapons, USR - (allow a deep strike assault for his unit)
  
• Bike/Jetbike IC status for Sammael
  
• Jetbike Command Squad.
  
• Update of all Heavenfall Blades, Blades of Reason, Standards
  
• Would love to see a named Dread, DW or IntChap
  
• TDA Master of Forge
  

• Chaplains as either a buy 3 slot or Possibly as a squad Sgt upgrade unit.
  
• Chaplains give blanket prefered enemy ala C:SW
  
• Deathwing Specific Dreadnought - using the DW theme, able to go Ranged, mixxed, or CC weapon loadout
  
• Chaplain Dreadnought - with better rules than the blah FW rules.
  
• Venerable Dreadnought as per C:SM
  
• Veteran Deathwing Squad ~ Complete and Utter Ripoff of the GK Paladins, even though I have been calling for it for over 5 years
  
• Veteran Ravenwing Squad ~ maybe on jetbikes?
  
• Company Veterans, i think will remain close to same with consistent prices with C:BA/SM/SW - special ammo
  
• Techmarines, TDA version, allow one per vehicle
  

:P

• Tactical - allow 1 SW/HW per 5 models, variable size, add up to 2 CCw's in exchange for bolters, any model a storm bolter
  
• Scouts - as per c:SM
  
• Deathwing Squad - Better weapon load out, PW/SB standard, combiweapons, 10 man squad, Landraider dedicated transport (scoring with Belial, TDA HQ)
  
• Ravenwing Squad - remove Landspeeder, allow 6 bike + 2 AB squads (Scoring with Sammael, Bike HQ)
  

• Ravenwing Attack Bikes - 1-5 AB's additiond HW options
  
• Ravenwing Support - 1-5 LS's addition HW choices, more than 1 Typhoon
  
• Assault squad - allow Bolters/Storm Bolters, up to 2 CCw's
  
• Scout Bike's - as per C:SM
  
• New Flyer with 20 model Capacity - similar to the Storm Eagle from FW
  
• Deathwing Assault Squad - Personal Teleporters
  

• Vind, Pred, WW, LR, LRC, LRR - as per C:SM
  
• Devs - allow 4 HW/SW and up to 2 CCW's
  
• Mortis Dread
  
• Dreadnought - as per C:SM
  
• Predator version, hurricane sponsons, plasma main/sponsons
  
• Plasma Land Raider version
  
• Deathwing Support Squad - 4 Heavies
  
• Artillery unit - Thunderfire/Rapier/etc
  

 

General Thoughts

• Army Wide Stubborn + ATSKNF
  
• Inner Circle Fearless
  
• Sword Mastery - give some bonus to all sword wielding troops. -( ex. Parry to add +1 Sv or reroll 1 failed save turn)
  
• Special Ammo for Veterans
  
• Tacticals get BG, BP + CCW
  
• Chaplains get Fear effects
  
• Librarians get Fear Powers
  
• Deathwing Assault combines with Drop Pod Assault for first turn Deepstriking
  
• New Special and Heavy weapon options to show better access to current/older/ancient - Conversion Beams, Graviton guns, Plasma Blasters, Heavy Plasma etc.
  
• Ravenwing to get Stubborn, ATSKNF, Skilled Rider, Scouts, Combat Squads, Hit and Run
  
• Deathwing to keep Fearless, Deathwing Assault, gain combat squads
  
• Deathwing Sgts upgrade for units - allow veteran sgt to upgrade to a Deathwing Sgt, who can also be an Apothecary, or carry a banner, or be a chaplain initiate, or maybe give a USR to squad (FC/CA/Relent/Hit&Run/Scout/ ???)
  
• Vehicles - plasma/melta pintel mounts
  

 

A couple idea that I like to permeate throughout the list:

 

1) Mixxed weapon loadout. Allow all squads to mix up some weapons. Really becoming more all rounders.

 

Deathwing - mix/match freely, 1 per 5 -or- 2 Heavy weapons, all combi-weapons

Ravenwing - mix/match freely, 2 Special weapons, all may get

CCW

's

Company Veterans - mix/match freely, 2 Special/heavy weapons, all may get

SB

's, Combi,

CCW

's

Tactical - allow 1 per 5 models a heavy or special weapon, allow 2 models a CC weapon, Sgt gets

CCW

Assault - allow 2 models a special weapon, allow all models Bolters/Storm Bolters, up to 2 models a CC weapon, sgt gets

CCW

Devs - allow 4 models to get a heavy or special weapon, allow 2 models a CC weapon, Sgt gets

CCW

.

 

2) New USR - Counter Assault -

This doesn't give an extra attacks like Ferocious Charge or Counter Attack, but what it does is on a succesfull Ld Check it removes the extra attack enemy units get for charging. This can be either a ld check on the DA unit or it could be a check on the charging unit. For a ld check on the charging unit we can make it a flat modifier (-2,-4) or a variable modifier. I like the variable modifier idea. charging regular troops -1 for each model, for any DW or IC's -2. Basically the bigger the unit charged the more likely the enemy doesn't get the charge bonus. While it doesn't make the DA unit more killy like FA/CA where you gain attacks, it does make them a little more survivable.

 

Examples:

• A unit decides to charge an 5 man tactical squad, they make a ld -5 in order to get their charge bonus.
  
  
• A unit decides to charge an 4 man Assault squad with an attached Independant Character, they make a ld -6 in order to get their charge bonus.
  
  
• A unit decides to charge an 5 man Deathwing squad with Belial, they make a ld -12 in order to get their charge bonus! only Snake-eyes gets it :)
  
  

[Brother dean]

Wishlisting:

 

I like the "Squad o' Chaplains" idea.

I wouldnt mind having a Chaplain character back

I really want the three Standards back but I would rather see their "buffs" spread out more... Like one "shooty", one "Choppy" and one Leadership buff instead of the 2 "Shooty" buffs and a LD buff. (Dunno why people think we are a shooty chapter, Two codexes with "Shooty" buff banners and a special rule that causes us to shoot things if we fail a LD test....) I'd rather see us taken to an "All round" chapter like the fluff says and to do that we need some Assault buffs...

[riddles]

Wishlisting:

 

I like the "Squad o' Chaplains" idea.

I wouldnt mind having a Chaplain character back

I really want the three Standards back but I would rather see their "buffs" spread out more... Like one "shooty", one "Choppy" and one Leadership buff instead of the 2 "Shooty" buffs and a LD buff. (Dunno why people think we are a shooty chapter, Two codexes with "Shooty" buff banners and a special rule that causes us to shoot things if we fail a LD test....) I'd rather see us taken to an "All round" chapter like the fluff says and to do that we need some Assault buffs...

 

What they were supposed to be:

Vanilla: general all rounders, lots of flexibility

Blood Angels: assault beasties, get in, hit hard

Space Wolves: close range fighting experts hurling themselves at the fray

 

From what they were intended to be, the niche for the dark angels is clearly shooty

 

What they turned out to be:

Vanilla: mech wall of shooting with 1 CC unit

Blood Angels: Mech wall of fast shooting/an actual assault army

Space Wolves: don't bother hurling themselves at the fray, just get into range, unload with the bolters and enjoy the benefits of charging.

 

Which one isn't a Ward book? oh yes...the puppies.

 

Shooting would be the way to diverge us. And ironically make us one of the most powerful armies in the game as shooting is considerably better than combat.

[Cactus]

My point was simply this:

- Aside from the Deathwing and the Ravenwing, the Dark Angels have largely followed the Codex Astartes since their inception (Codex: Angels of Death). That is, tactical superiority through our awesomeness. Much like the Ultramarines, much like the Imperial Fists etc.

- We have had some fluff about us having older technology, which translated to MOAR PLASMA.

- You stick Belial in the existing vanilla space marine book (replacing combat tactics with fearless and giving terminators as troops) and Sammael (replacing combat tactics with scout and making bikers troops) and the rest of the Dark Angels book, aside from Azrael and Ezekiel, is represented very well.

- You change terminator squads to allow mixed armament, but make it so a full THSS unit is around 220 (base cost 175, THSS for 10 points).

 

That's it. 5 minutes is all it would take to make a viable Dark Angels codex within the Marine book. Aside from upsetting die hard dark angels players, what are the benefits?

- Less development time making *another* divergent marine codex.

- Therefore, more time to dedicate to the Xenos codexes that need it - Eldar, Tau, Daemons, Tyranids (yes, i know its a 5th edition book)

- If good quality army books and models come out for these 3 armies, people will play them. No longer will the ULTRABLOODWOLFKNIGHTANGELS exist and GW will get more cross sell because rather than buying, say, a Storm Raven for your homebrew chapter to play a blood angels list, you buy a whole new army.

- More variety in armies on the tabletop at the casual and tournament level will attract more players to the game

 

In business terms, the space marine is a cash cow. Its always going to sell well and have a presence on the shelves. There are enough marine books that if one gets too far out of date, you can jump to another one if you are so inclined. Your niche/growth products are the Eldar and Tau of this world and they need more investment.

 

So regardless of what I'd like to see from a fanboy point of view in the new codex, I would say the sensible option is to roll us up into a unified marine dex. With this in mind, I'll take whatever GW gives us. We'll find out by the end of the year anyway. That said, if my deathwing become unplayable, i'll ragequit and i'm not ashamed to admit it.

 

You raise an interesting point there riddles. We all seem to have been assuming the forthcoming release will be a new Codex: Dark Angels. It could be a new Codex: Space Marines with Dark Angels on the cover.

 

Only time will tell.

[Brother Immolator]

You raise an interesting point there riddles. We all seem to have been assuming the forthcoming release will be a new Codex: Dark Angels. It could be a new Codex: Space Marines with Dark Angels on the cover.

 

Only time will tell.

 

 

I wanted to post this but refrained.Nice catch Cactus.

[Grimdarkness]

I,d like to see a rule showing that the DA are the son,s of the best tactical mind the imperium has known.

 

For example a tactical flexibility which would allow you to consolidate your combat units after the end of the turn.

[Brother Chaplain Ginn]

2) New USR - Counter Assault -

This doesn't give an extra attacks like Ferocious Charge or Counter Attack, but what it does is on a succesfull Ld Check it removes the extra attack enemy units get for charging. This can be either a ld check on the DA unit or it could be a check on the charging unit. For a ld check on the charging unit we can make it a flat modifier (-2,-4) or a variable modifier. I like the variable modifier idea. charging regular troops -1 for each model, for any DW or IC's -2. Basically the bigger the unit charged the more likely the enemy doesn't get the charge bonus. While it doesn't make the DA unit more killy like FA/CA where you gain attacks, it does make them a little more survivable.

 

 

This would be a sweet rule for a character to unlock. I dont know if I would want all units to have this, especially if those units were already pinned in combat. It would fit a shooty type. character

[HJL]

Watchcaptainazrael that is a great point. There is a copy of deathwatch at my local half priced books. Which one would i need?

[Brother Immolator]

I ve been through the leaked pdf, of the sixth rulebook.If half of what it reads in there is true,the game will change drastically and some of those wislisted will be general rules.

[Brother Kovash]

The only wish I really have is to get another troops choice. I love my Deathwing, absolutely love them, but I would really enjoy being able to play a 'regular' space marine army, if you get my drift. Devastator troops would be something truly unique, but then of course having troops that barely move would be just a little cumbersome. Combat squads would help alleviate part of that problem, but I really don't like the idea of 5-man squad trying to claim objectives.

 

I've toyed with the idea of having company veterans count as troops, but I wouldn't want my best unit sitting on an objective while the battle rages on. I'd want them to be mobile and in my opponent's face as much as possible.

[captain sox]

With the confirmation of DA being in the box set and it looking like DA are in the starter paint set, we're clearly getting a push. This is good.

 

Did I miss something? Was there an announcement or post somewhere confirming this?

[Chaplain Lucifer]

With the confirmation of DA being in the box set and it looking like DA are in the starter paint set, we're clearly getting a push. This is good.

 

Did I miss something? Was there an announcement or post somewhere confirming this?

Paint set DA are confirmed, box set is rumors but very reliable.

[WatchCaptainAzrael]

Watchcaptainazrael that is a great point. There is a copy of deathwatch at my local half priced books. Which one would i need?

I wouldn't advise you to buy the core book solely for info on the DAs. It's a waste of money for something that really isn't meant as an Index Astartes article or something of the like. That said, First Founding and the core book have the most information regarding minor details of the Chapter. The Rites of Battle supplement also covers the Angels of Absolution, Angels of Redemption, and Consecrators Chapters somewhat. Again, this is info as concerns these Chapters in the context of the Deathwatch game.

[Brother Immolator]

Watchcaptainazrael that is a great point. There is a copy of deathwatch at my local half priced books. Which one would i need?

I wouldn't advise you to buy the core book solely for info on the DAs. It's a waste of money for something that really isn't meant as an Index Astartes article or something of the like. That said, First Founding and the core book have the most information regarding minor details of the Chapter. The Rites of Battle supplement also covers the Angels of Absolution, Angels of Redemption, and Consecrators Chapters somewhat. Again, this is info as concerns these Chapters in the context of the Deathwatch game.

 

If you play attention to the righting style and even some articles in those books are a copy paste from the GWs books.Agreed till we see something conclusive they cant be taken as cannon,but i dont think they could publish something as radical as the backround of the AoB is concerned.

[Brother Chaplain Ginn]

Does anyone think we will be able to keep a heavy weapon (cyclone) on our lightening claw apothecaries? This seems like it needs addressing.

 

(I don't us the TH/SS Apoth. because I don't want to be taking wound/INV saves on my apothecary)