Captain Valren Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Hello everyone, Its been a long time since I last posted. I found my old DA codex and have jumped back in to the DA (ive been playing IG alot lately). Now lets get to the question. I am planning on making a DA successor chapter (name still in the works). An idea hit me while think about it. We all know that the DA and there succesors chapters are not the best of allies. They like to keep to themselves and tend to leave without notice. This has caused alot of mistrust to rise around the DA. Now what if this new chapter is used as a "Face" to change what the other people think about them. While this new chapter is used to "support" their allies the DA and other succesors chapters can use their resources to focus more on the hunt for the Fallen. I like the idea of it because I believe it still fits in the ideas of the DA. I would like to hear your ideas on it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pueriexdeus Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Hello everyone, Its been a long time since I last posted. I found my old DA codex and have jumped back in to the DA (ive been playing IG alot lately). Now lets get to the question. I am planning on making a DA successor chapter (name still in the works). An idea hit me while think about it. We all know that the DA and there succesors chapters are not the best of allies. They like to keep to themselves and tend to leave without notice. This has caused alot of mistrust to rise around the DA. Now what if this new chapter is used as a "Face" to change what the other people think about them. While this new chapter is used to "support" their allies the DA and other succesors chapters can use their resources to focus more on the hunt for the Fallen. I like the idea of it because I believe it still fits in the ideas of the DA. I would like to hear your ideas on it though. A great example of the subtle misdirection that the DA offer up to the rest of the Empire, go for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Immolator Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 There are both yeys and neys. On the yeys, i would say that the idea has merit as discribed and it would be a good tool to ease the minds of the rest of the imperium. On the nays i have to say that the DA care not that much about public relations.Yes they defend their secrets because if they dont they face outright heresy. But truly there never is a survivor to put the blame on the Unforgiven. Personally i say yes though...Found a name yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Valren Posted April 4, 2012 Author Share Posted April 4, 2012 There are both yeys and neys. On the yeys, i would say that the idea has merit as discribed and it would be a good tool to ease the minds of the rest of the imperium. On the nays i have to say that the DA care not that much about public relations.Yes they defend their secrets because if they dont they face outright heresy. But truly there never is a survivor to put the blame on the Unforgiven. Personally i say yes though...Found a name yet? At the moment I have not found a name for them. Thought I am open to suggestions. As for the public relations thing. This chapter is not doing it out of the kindness of their hearts. They are doing this to keep people from asking too many questions about the DA's actions or from people "investigating" them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puck Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 I was thinking to doing something very similar so of course I like the idea. If you believe the "secret legion" theme for the DA's, it could be a place for the legion to put marines who they don't necessarily want in the IC. In this way these marines can still help the legion as a whole by being the "bright stars that blind the world to the secret work of the legion". EDIT: they could also have several different sets of armor painted as different DA chapters so the legion reputation as a whole is masked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whiteraven17708 Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 "Angels of Redirection" your symbol could be a sideways pointing finger :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Priest Haelaeif Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 I think the problem with this is that while all the DA successor chapters - or at least their officers - know that they still work together, the rest of the IoM should actually not know that. So if some DA successor is suddenly a really good ally and all, then this wouldn't actually rub off on the other DA chapters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Sergeant Bohemond Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 I reckon the DA run an effective propaganda machine to keep popularity up for the centennial 'The Imperiums Next Top Chapter' :) On a more serious note, I think this is a great idea. A chapter that actively seeks to go above and beyond the call of duty in serving the IoM while actively promoting the Sons of the Lion to the wider Imperium. It needs a lot of work, but definetly has merit. I suggest taking it to the Liber Astartes for more work on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Chaplain Ginn Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 The DA are a first founding chapter and exercise the respect that garners them at their pleasure. They regard discretion as their ultimate entitlement. Beyond that...what if this new chapter got a wiff of a fallen marine? Would they not be looked down upon by their peers for not engaging in the chase? If this was soley a founding by the Lords of Terra using the lion's pure geneseed...then sure. But a chapter devoted to publicity would only have the opposite effect as well making the remaining DAs look worse to the =I=. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Immolator Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 I was thinking to doing something very similar so of course I like the idea. If you believe the "secret legion" theme for the DA's, it could be a place for the legion to put marines who they don't necessarily want in the IC. I know what you mean dont get me wrong,but by the way you posted it, it sounds like a chapter with 90% of the unforgiven in its ranks :P "Angels of Redirection" your symbol could be a sideways pointing finger :( That is second to awesomeness only to the Eye Pokers chapter! Chapter Motto:Hey you!Look thata way! I have derailed this thread far enough,i am reporting to Interrogation room 101,please excuse me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Valren Posted April 4, 2012 Author Share Posted April 4, 2012 Well I thought of a cool "motto" for their inner circle. "We serve in the light so our brothers can continue to work in the dark". needs work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Immolator Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Well I thought of a cool "motto" for their inner circle. "We serve in the light so our brothers can continue to work in the dark". needs work. We light the way,for those shrouded in darkness? And perhaps you might wish to consider and Angels of Absolution mind set.We dont care about the fallen as much etc,etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Valren Posted April 4, 2012 Author Share Posted April 4, 2012 The DA are a first founding chapter and exercise the respect that garners them at their pleasure. They regard discretion as their ultimate entitlement. Beyond that...what if this new chapter got a wiff of a fallen marine? Would they not be looked down upon by their peers for not engaging in the chase? If this was soley a founding by the Lords of Terra using the lion's pure geneseed...then sure. But a chapter devoted to publicity would only have the opposite effect as well making the remaining DAs look worse to the =I=. i agree with what you say but that discretion has caused the =I= to start to ask question (IMHO). As for the publicity its not like they are going to be on the cover of a 40k Time magazine. Think more of this is the chapter the DA send if asked for aid ally:"we need help" DA"we are currently busy with other problems but we will send one of our successor chapters to help." As for the fallen The "work" they do is to "free up" the other DAs so they can focus on it. Now if they are only DAs in the area I think they would go to standard DA tactics regarding allies. Hey there not perfect allies but they are "trying" Well I thought of a cool "motto" for their inner circle. "We serve in the light so our brothers can continue to work in the dark". needs work. We light the way,for those shrouded in darkness? And perhaps you might wish to consider and Angels of Absolution mind set.We dont care about the fallen as much etc,etc. you know i completely forgot about them lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Valren Posted April 4, 2012 Author Share Posted April 4, 2012 I reckon the DA run an effective propaganda machine to keep popularity up for the centennial 'The Imperiums Next Top Chapter' :) On a more serious note, I think this is a great idea. A chapter that actively seeks to go above and beyond the call of duty in serving the IoM while actively promoting the Sons of the Lion to the wider Imperium. It needs a lot of work, but definetly has merit. I suggest taking it to the Liber Astartes for more work on it. in regards to the propaganda this chapter is part of it lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Immolator Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 DA are not so discreet as to answer the comms of other imperial forces.They just go and do what they do or dont bother at all.Unless they need to direct them somewhere.They are not that talkative. Which makes me wonder if they did the same in the Eye of Terror campaign... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Valren Posted April 4, 2012 Author Share Posted April 4, 2012 DA are not so discreet as to answer the comms of other imperial forces.They just go and do what they do or dont bother at all.Unless they need to direct them somewhere.They are not that talkative.Which makes me wonder if they did the same in the Eye of Terror campaign... i know what you mean but they would have to answer the comms if they are directed at them/the rock. It doesnt have to be a "long" conversation. If the DA are not "answering" comms directed at them asking for help I think the =I= is going to get a little curious as to why the DA are giving people the silent treatment lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WatchCaptainAzrael Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 And perhaps you might wish to consider and Angels of Absolution mind set.We dont care about the fallen as much etc,etc. Or the Angels of Vengeance. "Whaddya mean 'go hunt the Fallen', Az? We're torching this here Craftworld, and after that we'll be putting that Ork empire over there to the sword! We have our hands full, Lion dammit!" :D Anyway, my two gene-glands: despite their aloofness and tendency for apparent erratic behavior, DAs and most of their successors actually have a positive image across the Imperium. Even the Angels of Redemption have left enough remarkable triumphs behind them to not be outright excommunicated when they do "smart" things like leaving a planet to its death to go on a spot of Fallen hunting. It stands to reason that, when not hunting the Fallen, the Sons of the Lion project an image of near perfect warriors of the Imperium. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say a PA Chapter seems a bit counter-intuitive. If anything, it would foster unlikely expectations of the Sons of the Lion regarding their trustworthiness as allies, when in the vast majority of cases we handle our own battle fronts alone and only work together with other Imperial forces if strictly necessary, Fallen or no Fallen involved. It's just SOP for us. That said, perhaps your Chapter has a very specific philosophy towards the Hunt, that allows it greater latitude when already fully committed in a conflict? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Immolator Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 DA are not so discreet as to answer the comms of other imperial forces.They just go and do what they do or dont bother at all.Unless they need to direct them somewhere.They are not that talkative.Which makes me wonder if they did the same in the Eye of Terror campaign... i know what you mean but they would have to answer the comms if they are directed at them/the rock. It doesnt have to be a "long" conversation. If the DA are not "answering" comms directed at them asking for help I think the =I= is going to get a little curious as to why the DA are giving people the silent treatment lol Battle brother manning the com relay,was at the toilet that time :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Valren Posted April 4, 2012 Author Share Posted April 4, 2012 And perhaps you might wish to consider and Angels of Absolution mind set.We dont care about the fallen as much etc,etc. Or the Angels of Vengeance. "Whaddya mean 'go hunt the Fallen', Az? We're torching this here Craftworld, and after that we'll be putting that Ork empire over there to the sword! We have our hands full, Lion dammit!" :D Anyway, my two gene-glands: despite their aloofness and tendency for apparent erratic behavior, DAs and most of their successors actually have a positive image across the Imperium. Even the Angels of Redemption have left enough remarkable triumphs behind them to not be outright excommunicated when they do "smart" things like leaving a planet to its death to go on a spot of Fallen hunting. It stands to reason that, when not hunting the Fallen, the Sons of the Lion project an image of near perfect warriors of the Imperium. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say a PA Chapter seems a bit counter-intuitive. If anything, it would foster unlikely expectations of the Sons of the Lion regarding their trustworthiness as allies, when in the vast majority of cases we handle our own battle fronts alone and only work together with other Imperial forces if strictly necessary, Fallen or no Fallen involved. It's just SOP for us. That said, perhaps your Chapter has a very specific philosophy towards the Hunt, that allows it greater latitude when already fully committed in a conflict? I agree with what you say. But I believe that people are starting to ask questions about the DA. This chapter is used to "show" people that the DAs are still "100%" committed solely to the IoM. As for the Angels of Redemption their actions have caused alot of questions to arise. The codex talks about how they will face consequences for their actions in the coming years. this chapter is to quell l peoples' questions about the DA and their successors. The DA dont want people to start poking. Also this chapter could be used as a way for the DA to have the High Lords petition for more DA successor chapters. See even when the DA are doing "good" they still have their own agenda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WatchCaptainAzrael Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Well, I'm not sure what else to say, other than ask you to try and write up something more detailed for further commentary. Pull a feather off that winged sword and get to it. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Blaire Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 I think this touches on an interesting issue with the Dark Angels, but is trying to correct something that is potentially uncorrectable. It's entirely possible, given what is coming out about the Cabal, info on the Watchers being members of such, and possibly new information we might get on the Fallen from the HH series, that the Dark Angels aren't loyal to the Imperium (and I don't think they are), only the Emperor and their own Primarch (who may be being guided some by members of the Cabal). They may be loyal to humanity in their own way, but not to the Imperium/High Lords of Terra, and those guys know it, or at least have very strong suspicions. This is likely the biggest reason that new DA gene-seed Chapters aren't created - why sanction the creation of something that is more likely to show loyalty somewhere else? The Imperium isn't about the "people", it's about all the factions contained therein. Some are probably already suspicious, such as the High Lords and the Inquisition, and depending on how the next Codex gets written, possibly even Mars, but they may also be infiltrated by DA agents (at least the latter two) that keep too much from coming to light. We've already seen through the bits of the Lion primarch story that he's somewhat willing to disregard even the Emperor's decree from Nikea to be able to fight properly, I see no reason why his "little brothers" wouldn't be willing to do similar to the High Lords of Terra. The Dark Angels are not 100% loyal to the Imperium where those in charge of the Imperium are concerned. A "propaganda chapter" isn't going to fix these suspicions, because they've been building up for probably 8K+ years, and they may actually have the opposite effect and cause more suspicion. What would the higher ups think when they start getting reports of this new Chapter that seems to show up to do clean up/take over operations/commit to operations when a different Unforgiven chapter was called/initially responded/was already in the area? That won't alleviate the High Lords' suspicions any, that's for sure. As far as the Inquisition, the DA have deftly handled their issues for this entire period as well, so a new chapter wouldn't change this any. As far as the rest of the Imperium, the Unforgiven as a whole don't actually have a bad reputation that needs fixing. Also, what I don't understand is why there is even the implication of a less than stellar reputation, because in reality, how often have any of the Unforgiven really left the battlefield? There may be a hint someone has to follow every 100 years or so? A Fallen actually gets captured every 500+ years? Only those entities that actually have the capability of tracking occurrences spaced that far apart could even note a pattern to be disgruntled over in the first place... Edit: Please don't take this as me trying to ruin or turn you away from your idea, they are simply my own personal take on how the universe works, you probably have a different interpretation on the idea and it is perfectly valid as a reason for a chapter founding. I would prepare the following though: it is known that the High Lords are hesitant to sanction the creation of any more DA gene-seed progeny Chapters, and if they don't know that the DA need this Chapter as a way to save some face, for what reason did the High Lords actually originally sanction the creation of this Chapter before they turned to the goal of being the "face" of the 1st Legion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Immolator Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 That question brother goes hand to hand with the creation as to why they authorized the creation of the Disciples of Caliban? If a SGM can influence the highlords into doing his bidding once it can happen again i think.But the real question that arises is:HOW... How the DA a chapter aloof by all accounts musters enough political leverage to influence the creation of a chapter outside of established foundings(or am i wrong about that last bit?). Also i believe that it safe to say that your opinion of the DA not be loyal to the imperial authorities but to the Emperors and Lions image of the imperium is a correct one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Sergeant Bohemond Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 because they control the HLoT. Careful manipulation of supporters to gain a High Lord who is one of their....agents. Quite possibly the supporters not only do not know who they work for, but most do not know someone else is working on the same agenda as they are, or for the DA, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interrogator Stobz Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Just a thought brought on by these musings, if we've been tithing geneseed to the HLoT etc for 10k years and they have only created a few (one?) extra Chapters there must be a HUGE supply of our GS stashed somewhere. I'm assuming our own supply is sufficient to replace casualties/attrition etc. It's about time Azzy went to Terra and said "Let there be MARINES!". Waste not want not after all. s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WatchCaptainAzrael Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Actually... You know that bit about standing up to overwhelming odds and winning..? Yeah, those casualties need replacin'. :P Also, I believe the explanation for there not being a lot of successor chapters is a bit more simple: more chapters would mean more Inner Circle members, which would mean more tabs-keeping to ensure no-one hit their head on their sleeping stone and decided the Fallen are right and Lion was a bastard. The Dark Angels as actively disloyal or having sway in the politicking of the HLoT in a strong manner seems a bit of a stretch to me... Particularly as the nature of their present relationship with the Watchers is still up for speculation. Honestly, our main secret carries enough damning implications as it is, let alone having a cabal of secret agents controlling the highest ruling body of the IoM. That's just a glaring neon sign before the Inquisition's footstep saying "SOMETHING'S ROTTEN IN THE DINING HALL OF THE ROCK, AND IT AIN'T AZZY'S PET WATCHER'S LITTERBOX". It would be even harder to keep that a secret than having lots of Chapters with their Inner Circle members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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