The Apocalypse Crusade

[Akylas]

Hopefully he'll kill many more terminators to come.

 

He's looking good. Black can be tough to do well, as I've experienced with my Black Legionaires *nervously checks that no Emperor's Champions are near*.

[Eberious]

The chaplin is looking good so far. Missed out on the limited ed Dv box as the supplier over commited and didnt get anymore from GW. :(. Although I still might be able to get one, all depends if its still safe come pay day...which is 22 days away.

[tvih]

I'd be able to get more DV LE boxes, if not for the lack of money :( Though I'm not sure if it makes sense for me to buy more of them in the sense that I don't need more DV HQs and well, I already have a decent amount of bolter marines now that I assembled - though not yet converted - the DV tactical squad. The terminators... well, I'd have to start running bigger squads if I got more of those I guess, as I'm running out of elite slots as it is! Still, if I had money to spare, the FLGS would have one starter kit with no chaos but two DA groups instead - not sure if the chaplains are still included though. Ah well. As good a value for money as these kits are, I think I really ought to buy a Predator next to get more anti-vehicle capability, and then maybe a Vindicator for those hordes.

 

Anyway, I should finish the chaplain one of these days. Thing is, I think I'd probably remove the censers, but they just make for such a good spot to grip the model when handling/moving it! ;)

 

I also made a new "concept" jump chaplain. But I think I need to buy one of those separate jump pack things, 5 in the box, from GW at some point to get enough of them jump packs. That'd allow me to make a few more regular assault marines as well, which would be nice.

 

Oh, and since I was supposed to make cloaks for my sword brethren as well as the marshal - I actually found out that Anvil Industry makes nice cloaks that don't cost too much, figuring how costly and in my unskilled hands error-prone trying to make cloaks with green stuff, I'll probably just order the cloaks - and some other stuff - from there instead. Probably also going to get my counts-as cyclone launchers from there. Then I'll no longer have to use hunter-killer missiles as cyclones ;)

[Eberious]

ah yes, anvils stuff can be pretty good. Will it be the Regal Cloaks? Edited October 4, 2012 by Eberious

[tvih]

ah yes, anvils stuff can be pretty good. Will it be the Regal Cloaks?

Yup, those are the ones... I figure I'll buy 15, since currently I'd need 11 for Marshal and the Brethren (who mostly get used as initiates, but anyway!), and it's always good to have some spares. I reckon the jump chaplain wouldn't make much sense with a cloak, the thing would just burn up when using the pack! :(

 

I reckon my DV terminator sarge who acts as a TDA Commander could also use a cloak, but for that I guess I have no other options but green stuff.

[Eberious]

Or if you can fit it on the DV model a chaos lords cloak. I've used a few and fit nice. The one on my terminator chaplin is waering one, a few mods but looks the part, also as its already battle worn it suits the terminators style great. Edited October 4, 2012 by Eberious

[tvih]

Ugh. 1000pt tournament was today :P

 

My crappy list:

 

Castellan (TDA+PS+SB) 110p

Emperor's Champion 90p

Terminator Command Squad (2x CML, CF, Tank Hunters) 227p

Dreadnought (TLLC, ML) 135p

Crusader Squad (LasC, PlasG, 3x Bolter) 101p + Rhino 50p

Crusader Squad (LasC, PlasG, 3x Bolter) 101p + Rhino 50p

Crusader Squad (PlasC, 4x Bolter) 100p

Vow: SNTUTL 35p

Total: 999p

 

---

 

Match 1: Sisters of Battle (Dawn of War)

In advance I thought this might be one opponent against whom I might have a chance. False!

 

Turned out he had three Exorcists. Since I deployed first and didn't realize what they were and how they worked, I was foolish enough to deploy my terminators in defensive positions. It would not have been so bad, if not for his stellar luck with saves. In the first two turns, I scored a total of 8 damaging hits on one of them - they were all three next to each other - of which I believe at least 6 were penetrations. So, in other words I had decent luck with getting penetration results. However, of those 8 hits he succeeded 5 times in a 5+ cover save, and once in a 6+ invulnerability save. I mean, come on! On average I "should" have blown up two of them instead of just one. Well, actually the one next to it did also suffer once glancing hit from a plasma cannon in the process, but that didn't really help much.

 

At this point I lost my dread and then my Rhinos in quick succession, and his Saint Celestine started mowing down first my Lascannon squad and then later my plasma cannon squad on the right flank (well actually two marines fell back from close combat and ran off the table... I'm not sure if they should've given Fearless but whatever, they would've been gone the next turn regardless so it doesn't matter much). Anyway the bitc... err, lady was running around solo. I might've been able to shoot her down after she killed the first squad, but frankly as nasty as she was, the Exorcists with their D6 S8 AP1 attacks (he mostly rolled 4s and 6s...) were a bigger issue still. However, I never managed to do any more damage to the remaining two. On the left flank a regular squad with two meltas killed my second lascannon squad. The Exorcists, having dealt with all my vehicles, started killing my terminators. Unlike him, my 5+ saves were useless, I think I got a grand total of one save before all 5 terminators were dead. EC, who was attached to the terminators, survived at this point. I should've moved him to the plasma cannon squad (which was deployed next to the terminators) to try to deal with Celestine, but I actually only realized I should've done that now that I'm writing this :P

 

Anyway, at that point EC was the only one alive, and the damned lady ran away so I couldn't even get to close combat to try get some final revenge :( End result... I got massacred, didn't get any victory points.

 

---

 

Match 2: Dark Eldar (Crusade)

 

Aptly this Crusade was by far the best match I had, it was actually fun unlike the other two.

 

The opponent was the same guy who played his GK+IG combo against me at 1750pt. This time he mostly had CC dudes and some sort of sniper squad, plus again Aegis line with Icarus.

 

I started out fairly well playing from defensive positions, killing off some of his snipers and lesser CC dudes plus wounding some big fat ugly ones that had T5 and 3 wounds each! He was coming down to me through the middle of the map which had a big ruin through which he was moving, and my plasma cannon squad with EC was in another ruin that was "south" of it, toward my table edge. My Dread and southeastern Rhino did some damage to the buggers as they crept closer, but in the end they reached my PlasC+EC squad, and my guys died. If the EC had not taken a wound from shooting while in the ruin, things might've gone a tad better, now he died in a challenge from failing one save out of three and thus didn't get to attack.

 

As they would've reached my Dreadnought soon enough anyway (unless I would've just tried "kiting" them which would not have worked most likely) I charged them. They had some sort of defensive grenades, so only two attacks despite the charge. But the annoying part was the I didn't hit with the attacks, nor did I hit in the next turn, so my Dread died. Kiting probably would've been better after all...

 

My terminators arrived at the table. This time it could be said that I finally deep striked them sensibly, since his defensive zone would've been a mess to try to get a proper strike in, plus his fatty mob needed to be handled, and I had nothing else for the task. So they arrived to east of the fatty mob, and blasted away. Didn't do much, but at least removed a model or two. The next turn is where I took the death blow in the sense that despite only needing 6" I failed a charge, while losing two terminators to flamer overwatch. After that the terminators didn't really accomplish anything, he re-flamered (one casualty) and then charged them with his warlord and after two turns they were all dead.

 

Not long after that the rest of the fatty mob - minus the warlord - reached my southeast Rhino and it blew up from the assault. My guys emerged unscathed despite the explosion. I then managed to shoot the remaining daemons enough that they fell back from the losses. In the meanwhile my other Rhino - who by the way lost the Plasma Gun guy earlier on to a Gets Hot! roll - did some damage on some lesser CC dudes, but nothing much. And that's pretty much how the game ended at turn 6. I had 9 marines and a Rhino alive, for a total of 230 points. He had about 600 points left due to having his expensive warlord intact. So while it was a clear defeat in terms of points, it was still a fun match where I at least did some damage despite losing the game 8-2 in terms of victory points.

 

---

 

Match 3: Dark Eldar (Big Guns Never Tire)

 

Against the same guy against whom I won my very first game of 40k. Not so lucky this time. His transports made full speed to the LasC+EC squad and the Rhino with the PlasC squad inside, they were at the southwestern area behind a ruin. My Dread was also there, but was blown up in turn 1 because foolish me had placed it badly so that it was partially visible through the ruin. When am I going to make stupid deployments, seriously? I should've placed it in the southeast where my second Rhino was guarding an objective behind impassable cover.

 

Anyway, my shots in the southeast sucked and I only did like one hull point of damage to one of his two AV10 transports. Ridiculous. He disembarked with one 10-man Wych squad, and assaulted my Rhino which he had already shot a bit with his transports. It blew up, killing two of his guys and none of mine. My PlasC squad shot at him since they couldn't have charge anyway, not to mention doing more damage by shooting anyway most likely. They actually managed to kill two or three guys. The LasC+EC squad then assaulted the remaining guys, neither side getting much done - stupid 4+ dodge saves for 10-point models! I think I might've lost one guy, not sure if he lost one too.

 

In any case, he then disembarked a second 10-man wych squad and charged the PlasC squad, who also got hit from behind by a gunboat thingie. Soon I only had the PlasC guy remaining, and he almost lived on an additional turn by saving 5 out of 6 wounds in close combat. But alas, one was enough, and he died. So this left the EC's squad fighting about 13-14 models. After about two rounds it was the EC - with only one wound left - against I believe 11 wyches. Around the same time my terminators landed behind the enemy and blasted his warlord off the table. Sadly that did little good, as his transports and gunboats then lanced the entire group off the table in one turn. Sigh.

 

On the southeast area my Rhino had actually blown up some time ago already. The 5-man squad was sitting there defending the objective. While my EC was tied up with the wyches, he moved his transports and gunboats there. Soon all but one bolter marine were dead, in part because of his flyer as well. Strangely enough though, the lone marine bravely survived because the lances all missed. So he kept the objective, while the EC in the last two turns of the game killed off two Wyches while successfully saving against at least 10 wounds alone after the others had died off (and several saves before the others died, too). Then the match ended, with me having only the two models alive and he only having lost a total of 11 wyches. Pathetic performance on my part indeed. Score was again 8-2, my points being from Slay the Warlord and the lone marine holding the objective.

 

---

 

I must say, the first and third matches were not fun. Nothing worked the way it should have. Granted, my list wasn't the best and not exactly what I would have chosen if not for the lack of models, but still, lots of bad luck as usual. Not that I didn't make mistakes, like the terminators in the first match should've most likely deep striked to harass the Exorcists - mind you, if not for his phenomenal saves, my chosen deployment would've worked too, and of course the facepalm-worthy Dread deployment in the third match. Only in the second match I think I deployed pretty well.

 

For the next tournament (apparently it'll be 1250 or 1300 points) in 4th of October, if I participate I think I'm gonna ignore tournament legality a bit in terms of models and run my Rhinos as proxied tri-las Predators. After all others proxy things (like only one of the Exorcists was an actual Exorcist model), so frag me if I'm still gonna keep losing for not having certain models. I'll also probably use an Aegis line to protect the Preds, though whether I'll actually buy it or proxy it from a line built from lego bricks will remain to be seen. Lego bricks will probably also be used to proxy the Pred turrets and sponson, I may post a pic of them for the hell of it once I get it done :P Anyway, will have to decide on the rest of my army list, I have an urge to run the LRC but all those high-strength weapons make me think it'd just be an expensive wreck. Like against Dark Eldar even with Blessed Hull it would've probably died in two turns. Ah well, four weeks of planning time.

Edited October 7, 2012 by tvih

[Marshal_Roujakis]

Sorry for your loss brother and yes deployment now comes at a very important time during these dark days. But might I also point out that you seem not to have a truly dangerous close combat squad. You mostly relied on the benefits of "suffer not" but that could kill you in such low numbers. If your vow works in concert with your army selection, like an Iron man captain America team combo, you're army becomes really hard to beat.

 

Try this, drop the rhino to one troops squad, replace it with either neophytes or initiates, then place them behind cover. So now you could shoot, and still have enough bodies not just to die off in an assault. I find that unless you move that rhino around, or use it as Melta bunker, which involves it moving closer to the enemy, the rhino becomes a very soft squishy target for nearly all kinds of enemy.

 

Another option I would've done is drop the tllc for an assault cannon then the missile for a flamer, put the sucker in a pod then watch the good times roll. After all if the enemy is expecting your dread on turn 1 he won't be moving much, allowing you to get into a better position, or get away from his assault, but expect that dread to die. Unless you're lucky and you could give it smoke.

 

Another idea is to leave only one las/plas squad and the other one is a power weapon/fist plasma squad in the rhino. If you can zoom it past the enemy line. You can try to rip enemy artillery positions to tatters, in mid range or close combat or if they're assaulting you, at least you get plasma over watch then a close combat weapon to defend yourselves.

 

Don't lose faith brother and keep crusading!

[tvih]

Yes, I didn't really have a CC squad. Which sucked for the EC and his vow because they didn't do much good on their own and makes him not a good use of points but still mandatory. With what I have or had, I just wasn't able to choose enough of heavy weapons and still fit in some good CC. Also the Rhino loaded with CC guys - well, I probably have to do that next time, but it still sucks. Not being able to assault on the same turn as you disembark just makes the passengers one big fat vulnerable target for the enemy to blow off the table at their leisure.

 

Assault cannon + heavy flamer is my favorite configuration for a dread, but in this case it wouldn't really have mattered much. Even if I did have drop pod models, in the first match only one would've done little good - the dread would've been blasted off the table by the Exorcists anyway. In the second match... well, that's the one case where it could've been useful. In the third match again it ended up not mattering because of the bad deployment. But frankly as much as I do like Dreads, it just feels like wasted points for a tournament due to being so damned squishy. For example, in a fire support role a Predator only costs an extra 10 points while having better frontal armor and three weapons instead of two.

 

Anyway, I did make an army list thread here for the upcoming tournament's list.

[tvih]

Ugh, getting an urge to do a mix of BT+BA for the next tournament. DC would just be that much more powerful in a CC list for the points. Problem is that from what I've gathered even if my BTs are under 750 points, the allied detachment is counted as pushing the list size beyond that and thus since BT is the primary force an EC must be taken. Which kinda limits things. Because then I'd either end up with 3 HQs - needless to say, BAD in a 1250pt list in most cases especially as it would largely negate the per-point advantage - or I would have to use BA as the primary force, which aside from being heresy (:P) I wouldn't have the models for without using my BT forces as counts-as BA <_< Not that I have any actual BA models as it is, but my Chaplain could easily be made into such with just a swapped shoulderpad, then would just need a DC kit or two. Dunno if I can afford even that yet though. Might be able lend some models, possibly. Oh well. I just have a feeling that my CC/shooty mix BT list will get blown off the table just like the shooty list was!

[tvih]

1250pt match, following list that I tried out to see if it'd have any chance in the upcoming tournament:

 

Master of Sanctity

- Axe, Storm Bolter, Holy Orb, Honors, Melta Bomb

 

Emperor's Champion + AAC

 

Command Squad

- 3x BP+CCW

- 1x BP+PF+Honors Sergeant

- 1x BP+CCW Apothecary

- 1x Flamer

- 1x Melta

 

Crusader Squad 1

- 1x Heavy Bolter, 3x Bolter, 1x Plasma

 

Crusader Squad 2

- 1x Lascannon, 3x Bolter, 1x Plasma

 

Crusader Squad 3

- 1x Lascannon, 3x Bolter, 1x Plasma

 

Crusader Squad 4

- 1x Melta

- 4x Bolter

 

Crusader Squad 5

- 3x BP+CCW

- 1x Flamer

- 1x BP+Axe

- 4x BP+CCW Neophyte

 

Assault Squad

- 2x PP+CCW

- 3x BP+CCW

- Melta Bombs

 

2x Rhino

 

---

 

Enemy had I think 25 jump pack Death Company with no special weapons, a DC Dread with Talons and Astorath HQ. So not quite so serious a list, but not one to be taken lightly either. Big Guns Never Tire mission.

 

Turn 1: I went first. Deployed Crusader Squad 4 near a ruin in the east, next to which was an objective. CS5+EC was near with a Rhino. CS2 was in southeast in a ruin protecting an objective. CS1 and CS2 were in the southwest protecting an objective. Assault squad and Command squad with Rhino were east of the latter objective. He deployed his DC to the northwest. I disembarked from both Rhinos, moving toward north with Command Squad and toward northwest with CS5. Lascannons fired, utterly failing their penetration rolls against the Dread as usual (rolling 1s). He jumped to the 5+ cover ruin that was between my Assault Squad and Command Squad and his force, and . He attempted an assault against my assault marines, but fell short by an inch or so. Overwatch failed miserably.

 

Turn 2A: Everyone except CS2 & CS4 moved closer to get to a good charge position. All squads opened fire. Lascannons were meh, one missing with a roll of 1 and the other causing a penetration on the Dread with no good result. CS1, CS2 and ComS and AS fired with some success, removing perhaps 3-4 models from the ruin. CS5 failed charge by an inch or so, but but ComS and AS all succeeded. Overwatch didn't do anything luckily. Astorath challenged, MoS Joachim accepted. Attacks were a bit meh, relatively few casualties on their side despite the massive number of attacks, except for Sgt Ictus' Power Fist dispatching 3 marines. In the challenge Joachim caused 2 wounds to Astorath while taking none himself. In turn I took quite a few casualties, with Apothecary, Sgt Ictus and I think two other models surviving from the Command Squad. Lost one or two Assault Marines. His Dread, thanks to the Failcannons failing, charged my CS5+EC, dispatching of 5 models, including all 4 neophytes, with ease. Only the EC had a weapon capable of hurting it - sucked to be a part of CS5 at that point!

 

Turn 2B: AS got nothing done. Ictus I think killed one model, not sure if any others got kills. In turn only Ictus survived of the command squad, and I think three assault marines remained. Joachim took two wounds from Astorath, dealing one in return and slaying the bugger! Three victory points there, with first blood, slay the warlord, killing enemy IC due to having the personal trait for +1VP. His Dread was shredding through my marines again, I think one survived in addition to EC.

 

Turn 3A: Ictus died. Joachim died too, because of failing one armor save out of three. Should've attacked with Crozius instead of waiting for axe, not that it would've made much difference I suppose. Two AS models stayed alive. EC was left alone, I think dealing one glancing blow to the Dread and taking a wound in return.

 

Turn 3B: EC & Dread just scratched each others' armor. AS models... unfortunately, as it turned out, they made at least 8-9 saves and stayed alive.

 

Turn 4A: EC & Dread just scratched each others' armor. AS models died off.

 

Turn 4B: Remaining DC guys, about 10 or so, charge CS1 & CS2. Overwatch was basically useless, I think I killed one model or something. Took some casualties from the CC attacks, not sure if I caused any - at most 1. EC & Dread ding-a-ling each other.

 

Turn 5A: I lose more models from CS1 & CS2. Don't think I caused any wounds. EC finally loses combat to the Dread despite his valiant efforts :o

 

Turn 5B: His DC don't do any attacks, because I realize he's been doing more rolls than he should - 30 hits with only 8 models alive, hmm! He'd mistakenly been adding Rage bonuses to his attacks, something he shouldn't have gotten even on the first turn because of it being a multiple assault. I get my attacks, but don't think I killed anything with the 5 models I had left in the two squads there. His Dread moves, shoots (killing one model) and assaults CS4 in the ruin where they had moved to hold the additional objective. I catch a lucky break and my Melta succeeds in Overwatch, causing the Dread to explode. Boom! No casualties from that.

 

And match ends! Actually I'm thinking we probably had 6 turns, I'm not sure which two rounds I compressed into one or something, but the basic progress was as described.

 

A stupid mistake on my part - despite him saying after the fact that it was a good idea to wait and try to get to shoot - was leaving CS1 and CS2 in place while ComS and AS were still fighting, because getting 32 attacks on the charge would've been far better than shooting for one turn even if I had gotten a chance to shoot. Instead I got useless overwatch because combat ended on my turn and he was able to assault me on his turn. Plus if I had joined the fight, I could've tried to get some of the CC guys to survive for longer. I could've charged in as early as turn 3! Oh well!

 

I did win the match quite clearly, with something like Joachim's 3 VP from killing Astorath and additionally 9 from holding 3 objectives, while he only got I think 1 point from killing Joachim? Of course since he chose DC and we got an objective match, I had a clear advantage. Plus his wasn't really a preplanned list, he didn't even have his own models to play with. In the end he has 160 points worth of models (8 marines) +alive, I had ~381 points - the Rhinos and 14 marines. Shows just how deadly DC is even without special weapons. Had he had non-jumpy DC troops and some special weapons, I would've lost for sure.

 

And guess what? I didn't remember to use Holy Orb :) Useless globe-shaped thing, I should probably just drop it and get something else that actually isn't so hard to remember to use - or maybe give him a huge banner which has the word ORB in it :( Joachim did nicely enough otherwise though, by slaying Astorath causing more points loss - 220 points - for the enemy than he cost himself (155 points), just like when he slaughtered the 6 GK terminators the last time I used him! So I suppose the heroes of the match were him and the EC, who by holding the Dread in check prevented more carnage on my other troops. Of course the melta did blow the Dread up in the end with an explosion damage table result, but that might've not happened earlier in the game after all. Though come to think of it after the fact, he rolled extra attacks for his Dread for each wound, not just unsaved wound, so done properly my EC probably wouldn't have died during the match. Meh!

 

Not really sold on the apothecary yet. Seems enemies always succeed in a huge amount of FNP saves, but I didn't succeed in any whatsoever, just like my 5+ invuls on terminators or 5+ cover saves always fail. If I used SB instead of Command Squad at least I could pick and choose terminator honors and get an extra power weapon for cheaper than in a CS (with FCC costing +20p compared to +10 for a PW in a SB squad). Plus I could attach the EC, something I obviously can't do with a Command Squad (which really is such a stupid restriction).

[Arthanor]

Well done! As you said, the setup did not favor him but DC can be deadly (not as much as Joachim though, obviously!) and every game presents its own challenges and lessons. It's one thing I like about writing battle reports: taking the time to think about a game and also sharing the insight. Interesting to see the assault-rhino list doing alright too (50% charge success is not that bad from a regular vehicle!)

 

A quick not on command squad EC restrictions: I think it's due to the EC being supposed to seek enemy champions while the HQs are supposed to be leading/commanding, two different roles. Of course, in our case, the HQs usually lead by example wrecking faces like nobody else can do it ;)

[Brother Darklight]

Match 1: Sisters of Battle (Dawn of War)

In advance I thought this might be one opponent against whom I might have a chance. False!

 

As few and far-between as Sisters players are, I can't say for sure. But I'd wager any players who'll go to the 'extremes' (since they're more difficult to get your hands on than any other army) of playing Sisters are generally good at what they do.

 

Did you find that he was confidant in his decisions? Might've been a case of being completely new and getting matched with the best player in the league, so to speak.

 

 

As for your DE matches, I can safely say (as a DE player myself) that they indeed fit the description of 'Glass Hammer'. He had a plan. Obviously a rather decent plan. Those Grotesques (W3 ones) can be a bugger to use properly. How many did he have in the mob? The way to deal with them is hit them with as many attacks as possible. They have a 5+ save and no invuln (I think, it's been a while) so they don't take bolter rounds well.

 

For next time: focus fire/zeal. If you take the Dark Eldar apart unit by unit, it'll disrupt what he's doing. Start with either units like the Grotesques, or Incubi, or anything with an HQ attached. He's generally hoping to use that to get a lot of kills, but DE are squishy. So if you focus on em for the first bit, it'll crumble pretty quickly. Their troops are pretty much laughable from a Power Armoured standpoint, so disrupting his held objectives (provided its an objective game) is pretty easy to do. Also, killing all but, say 2 Grotesques? Don't assume your job is done there. DE are sneaky, and have ridiculous abilities. Finish all of these units off 100%. Many times I've killed unsuspecting Chaos Marine squads with 1-3 Grotesques and some decent FnP rolls on my part... Those suckers pack a heck of a punch

 

 

@Holy Orb. I've taken it... I dunno, a Gazillion times and never once remembered to use it. *facepalm* You're not the only one.

[tvih]

Well done! As you said, the setup did not favor him but DC can be deadly (not as much as Joachim though, obviously!) and every game presents its own challenges and lessons. It's one thing I like about writing battle reports: taking the time to think about a game and also sharing the insight. Interesting to see the assault-rhino list doing alright too (50% charge success is not that bad from a regular vehicle!)

Well, since he was coming for me I disembarked early (actually I considered just starting the match disembarked). The Rhinos themselves didn't get to do much in the match, only getting off their stormbolter shots in the first round :) Could've gone to go get Linebreaker I suppose, but didn't really need it.

 

A quick not on command squad EC restrictions: I think it's due to the EC being supposed to seek enemy champions while the HQs are supposed to be leading/commanding, two different roles. Of course, in our case, the HQs usually lead by example wrecking faces like nobody else can do it ;)

I suppose, but the HQs still always seem to go for the front lines both in Space Marine fluff and of course on the table. Thus nothing preventing the EC from joining a HQ if it is in the front lines or headed there. But oh well, will see if I'll change to an SB squad or not.

 

As few and far-between as Sisters players are, I can't say for sure. But I'd wager any players who'll go to the 'extremes' (since they're more difficult to get your hands on than any other army) of playing Sisters are generally good at what they do.

 

Did you find that he was confidant in his decisions? Might've been a case of being completely new and getting matched with the best player in the league, so to speak.

Well, he was a pretty new player too, only having played about as little as me previously. But he did end up third in the tournament, out of ten players (with me having the dubious honor of being last). The Exorcists wrecked stuff in all his matches.

 

As for your DE matches, I can safely say (as a DE player myself) that they indeed fit the description of 'Glass Hammer'. He had a plan. Obviously a rather decent plan. Those Grotesques (W3 ones) can be a bugger to use properly. How many did he have in the mob? The way to deal with them is hit them with as many attacks as possible. They have a 5+ save and no invuln (I think, it's been a while) so they don't take bolter rounds well.

About 4-5 of them maybe? No invul but since they had FNP, that combined with T5 seemed to keep them pretty safe from regular weapons. They were mixed with some T3 models so can't remember how many there were exactly.

 

The DE player from the second match is indeed a good player. First time I saw him player DE personally, usually he's been playing his GK.

 

The other DE guy, not so much of a good player, which is why it annoys me that I lost so completely due to no proper CC and useless luck trying to shoot down his Raiders. Still, big squads of 12-point wyches who basically autokill vehicles and have 4+ dodge in CC are pretty retarded. I really should've had flamers instead of plasma guns in that match.

 

Also, killing all but, say 2 Grotesques? Don't assume your job is done there. DE are sneaky, and have ridiculous abilities. Finish all of these units off 100%.

Well, in this case the last few were falling back, and the match ended before I could even try shooting them after they fell back.

 

---

 

Anyway, as for this 1250pt list I still need to run another test match with against a "proper" opponent to see how it fares. Hopefully on monday or so.

Edited October 11, 2012 by tvih

[tvih]

Ugh, unsure what direction to take with my forces! I obviously need some heavy armored stuff, but I also got excited with this whole Red Templars concept. Mostly currently I'm a bit bummered that I removed the tactical arrows from the AoBR marines (yet never got around to painting them so far), as they would've now made a good starting point for allied Red Templars together with the Sternguard kit that I have. Of course they could still be painted as RT but the arrows would've been nice to have in that case and the whole removal ordeal would have thus been unnecessary B) As I mentioned in the RT/WT thread I could use the RT to represent Blood Angels occasionally too, if I wanted to run BA armies that aren't purely DC. Of course there's difference in the colors a bit, but for the occasional counts-as nothing insurmountable - long as one isn't running a mixed list of BA+RT :)

 

I was also thinking of something weird - namely possibly having a RT+BT list where RT is the primary detachment but in fact the BT detachment would have larger points value. As I recall allied could have one of each FOC slot except two troops? The reason for it being this way and not the other way is of course trying to avoid having three HQs. Basically the allied BT detachment could still have EC or Chaplain, CC Terminator blob and two PA CC blobs with Rhinos, for example.

 

Another option could be doing the Sons of Dorn from Codex chapters, they'd look so similar to Templars that vehicles and such could be shared between them model-wise. But part of the appeal of the Red Templars is being of different color. SoD certainly wins in the fluff department, since it actually has fluff and is known to be an IF successor for certain - though despite being featured in WD I'm not sure if it's considered canon given its origins. Meh!

Edited October 19, 2012 by tvih

[tvih]

Probably going to go with a custom IF successor chapter at this point. I was also supposed to post the common fluff of my BT and said other chapter, but as I was thinking of maybe making it into a short story, not sure if I want to "spoil" it by posting a super-condensed version in case anyone wants to read the long one, whenever I might actually write that ;) I've been wanting to write something "proper" for a long time since it's been so long since I've even tried, so this could be as good an opportunity as any. On a side note I wish I had the chops to write something that could actually get published, but I reckon that's just a pipe dream :) Too bad I never took any writing courses, it haunts me from time to time :P

 

EDIT: On another side note, Pedro Kantor with his sternguard as troops, bombardment as well as +1A within 12" is just such a badass that he tempts me... could either just do Imperial Fists (ruining my custom fluff plans!) or just use his rules for my custom Chapter Master. Or just use him on the table painted as a CF and everything and simply leave him out of the custom chapter fluff, which I suppose would be the easiest route. Hmm, decisions, decisions!

Edited October 20, 2012 by tvih

[tvih]

Made a test list with the 1250pt tournament limit with Kantor. Due to allies not being allowed to use special characters (basically meaning the named Chapter Masters and Captains in the case of C:SM) in the tournament, C:SM would be the primary force in this case. I must say, it's too bad Kantor doesn't give the +1A to allies, my crusader squads could sure use the boost. Basically I'd be looking at Kantor, a Sternguard squad and two 10-man tactical squads on the C:SM side, and MoS with two CC crusader blobs (19 models total) in Rhinos for Templars. Total 46 models, thus being a "Dorn tide"! Unfortunately anti-vehicle would pretty much be left to three power fists, a multi-melta, a missile launcher, a combi-melta and four regular meltas. So not much long-range power, but I think this time no matter what list exactly I go for I'll play aggressively and try to swarm the enemy. Why? Because I realized that of all the 7 matches I've played to date, at the end of the match I've never had models on the enemy's table side, and even during the match only two or three times! Nuts!

 

But it is frankly depressing that especially if I had Vanguard and perhaps even Honour Guard, pure C:SM especially with Kantor and a Chaplain would do melee better than my BT aside from the scoring part :D I don't know. It's just starting to look like that while I certainly won't abandon my existing Templars, the next purchases are going to be for the C:SM force (plus using my current unpainted non-Templar-decorated models for them where needed, of course) instead of the Templars. Tentatively I've been thinking of calling the chapter the Silver Fists. They'd look a lot like Iron Fists, but without the golden gauntlets. It's a bit of an unimaginative name with all the different Fists chapters, but I figure what the heck. It'll allow me to use the CF/IF upgrade packs from both GW and FW at some point too if I so choose, since the same fist will serve as the logo I reckon, just in a different color obviously. The thing of it is that with the second part of the tournament being in two weeks and with two more tournaments in the series following at probably one month intervals after that, despite all the zeal I can muster I don't want to dishonor my Templar models by leading them into crushing defeats just because I seem incapable of making great lists with our Codex.

 

Worth noting, though, that I could do this "Dorn tide" list with just Templars I guess, since it doesn't really have anything special in it other than for Kantor himself, but I think I'd just like to give the Sternguard models a whirl finally. And of course having the frags & kraks as well as pistols on the bolter guys is a decent bonus. No EC unless I skip the MoS, but I'm not sure if the Vow is all that great when the Templars only consist of two squads?

 

Another option I thought about would've been to just play the Templar models with the C:SM Codex (SB as Vanguard for CC and so forth), but that feels like more of a heretical course of action than just adding a fellow "Dornian" chapter into the mix :P It would make certain things easier, though, so it's still not "off the table" as an option.

[tvih]

I suppose since I played with C:SM instead of C:BT, this is technically the wrong place, but bleh, "CBA" to make a new pointless thread elsewhere. Besides, at least I used my BT models :tu:

 

Anyway, had two 1250pt matches, following list.

 

Pedro Kantor

Honour Guard (4x PAxe, 4x PSWord) + Rhino

Sternguard Veteran Squad (PFist+bolter, Combi-Melta, 3x bolter) + Razorback

Tactical Squad (8x Bolter, Multi-Melta, Melta)

Tactical Squad (8x Bolter, Flamer, Heavy Bolter)

Devastator Squad (2x Las, 2x ML, 1x Bolter, Sgt BP+CCW)

Rhino

Razorback

 

The idea was to be mostly shooty, with a melee "death star". As it turned out it was a death alright, unfortunately in the opposite way from what was intended.

 

---

 

Match 1: Dark Eldar.

 

I'll never play another non-tournament match against Dark Eldar again. Seriously. Nothing but lance spam and indestructible AV10 transports (seriously, I downed NONE of the 4 vehicles once again!), haywire grenade spam and not to mention his latest stunt with next-to-free incubi with retarded AP2. The consensus has been that AP2 is too good for EC for some reason, but these guys who cost nothing get a billion AP2 attacks at I5? Fair and balanced, I say! My Honour guard first lost three guys to his Wyches because I failed three out of three armor saves (yes, that's right!) and then the Incubi killed everything else, including Kantor, before I got to even strike back. I almost destroyed one squad of wyches with one of my tactical squads in CC, but that was about it. In the end I had done 2HP damage to one Raider and I think maybe 1HP (glance) of damage to a Ravager or whatever the hell it was called, the latter with an Orbital Bombardment that hit nothing else (three of his vehicles would've been hit if the blast had not scattered), killed I think 2 incubi with my Sternguard before they in turn were shot to bits the next turn, and a total of maybe ~10 wyches down. I had nothing left.

 

---

 

Match 2: Necrons

 

Well, another match where I knew I was doomed from the onset, because the enemy had no less than 4 flyers. Against which I fired a total of 8 missiles and 8 lascannon shots throughout the match and didn't hit even once. YYYYEEEEAAAAHHHH! I killed 3x3 scarabs (total 45 points, yay) with my sternguard, and another identical bunch with a tactical squad, and 5 immortals, but nothing else (since shooting down teletubbies who pop back up don't count). In the end I had one single marine left. My honour guard + Kantor didn't get to do anything at all because all his forces came from reserve and I foolishly put them at one edge of the table, and of course he came in at the other side. And then Rhino blew, and that was pretty much it. I didn't even remember to use Orbital Bombardment, which probably would've killed something since he had two squads sparsely spread next to each other, but aside from some small satisfaction that wouldn't have changed anything as far as the end result goes. HQ was dead before it got nearer than 12" from the enemy. Overall, flyers with Cheese Rays and Teletubby Infantry equals pointless match.

 

---

 

Frankly I'm not sure why I picked up a game where random luck is such a determining factor, because there's no such random game that I've ever played where my crap luck doesn't ruin the fun. Computer game or tabletop game or something else, doesn't matter, same thing. Of course I was facing pretty cheesy lists again, but then again don't I always. There's just no fun involved at this point.

 

My current shopping list includes 2 Vindis, 2 Predators, 2 Land Speeders (bought one today, for a total of three eventually) and an Aegis Line to get my heavy support options in order, possibly some infantry stuff of not so big a consequence (like Kantor if I use C:SM again at some point). If after I get those - might get some later this week, or if I don't, then it'll have to wait for 4-6 weeks - I don't start winning matches or at least get good fun fights even if I end up losing, I'm just gonna stop playing and keep this purely as a modeling/painting hobby (with a possible exception of playing against my brother once he gets his army), because if playing ends up as fun as humping a cheesegrater, what's the point?

 

I'm sure you can see I'm in a very negative mood, but killing like 10% of your enemy while losing your entire army just isn't fun no matter which way you look at it. I think if I go and play again on Thursday, I'll try assault termies in a LRC, because I still haven't used the LRC and I guess it's about time to get it to table it and thus get it blown up in the first turn and end up with an unsaved wound for each and every passenger due to a vehicle explosion result. But in general hauling CC squads in a Rhino just feels pointless, they never get to where they were going, and even if I did that lack of assaulting on the same turn means that they just get shot to hell by AP1&AP2 which every enemy army seems to have by the bazillions.

[Castellan Alaric]

i was in your same boat a frustration here about 3 months ago, so you are not alone. my main opponent (buddy's ork) literally had a 15 match winning streak against me where i, like you, had nothing and i maybe killed a mob of boys and a trukk. NOW, i will suggest something and it'll sound crazy to another guy like me who loved running cc crusaders in rhinos: footslog and bring some NEOPHYTES!! dude. running 2x10/5 cc squads with an IC each (ec-aac on one and a chappy-kitted how you want on the other) will make your opponent VERY friggin nervous man. if you have the models make em 10/10! all those attack and re-rolls with the chappy's squad is bound to cause some damage. back em up with some cyclone terminators (worth their weight in gold man), BIG shooty crusader squads (i go 7-8 guys with eiter HB/plas or LC/plas - HB if i'm fighting orks and lower armor vehs) and speeders. that is my tide 1250 list and i have beaten a jump heavy blood angels list and a razor/long fang rocket spam wolves list that featured mephiston as an ally. it'll seem weird at first, and moving all those models sucks, but seriously dude DON'T GIVE UP!

 

disclaimer: i came up and tried this list after proxying my templars for grey knights and had more fun with them than smoking chaos marines with gk. seriously bud, give it a shot.

 

NO PITY! :D

NO REMORSE! :angry:

NO FEAR! :angry:

[tvih]

I literally only have 5 neophytes. The buggers are just too damn expensive (in money rather than points). Plus everything just dies so fast, and frankly my CC squads never seem to survive actually getting into melee. Even less so if they're not in Rhinos. That list above is 40 models plus the Rhinos and HQ, and neither of the matches lasted for more than 5 turns.

 

This is probably what I'll try on Thursday if I can be arsed to go try play:

 

MoS Artificer+Honors+Pistol

EC AAC

Terminator Assault Squad 5xTH+SS, 2x 2LC

LRC

Crusader Squad Lasc+plasg+3 bolter

Crusader Squad Lasc+plasg+3 bolter

Crusader Squad Missile+plasg+3 bolter

LS Typhoon

2x Rhino

 

Basically everything except one squad is "mechanized". The Typhoon and the 3 heavy infantry weapons should try to provide some cover fire for the LRC, which will probably fail miserably. One consideration is deploying the Rhinos empty and using them as shields for the LRC, making the egg basket even more expensive.

 

And here's a list that I'd like to try, if I can get the models.

 

Marshal TDA+PF+SB

EC SNTUTL

Terminator Command Squad 2xCML+SB+PF, 1x SB+PF, 1x PW+SB

Crusader Squad Lasc+plasg+3 bolter

Crusader Squad Lasc+plasg+3 bolter

3x LS Typhoon

2x AC+2Las Predator

Aegis + Quad Gun

 

Obvious attempt here is to hide as many things as possible behind the Aegis line and just shoot the living crap out of the enemy (in reality, kill maybe one model before Righteous Zeal makes my defensive infantry units run off the table) with Lascannon and Missile fire. Chances are the same thing happens that does with all my shooty lists - that is, it won't work. But then again nothing else does either. Frickin' EC always eating up my points in shooty lists, too. Then again I guess the same could be said about the Marshal as well.

[Marshal_Roujakis]

I see through your list that you relly too much on single cannon fire, remember that if you can get a twin-linked version of a gun it wouldn't suck as bad. for 250 pts. you could get the 2 twin-linked Lascannon and single twin-linked heavy Bolter

off a LR. If you're opponent loves playing with Cheese, then we have the Cheesiest!!! You see all our squads are fluffy enough to be able to ride Land Raiders as dedicated Transports, so in a 1500 pt. game you could actually go full cheese and hire 3, just borrow one from your LGS if you don't have models, but yes I've tried this and smashed a Necron flyer list with 2 LR and 1 LRC, just play it more aggressively than normal and laugh as your opponent shakes his head at what he sees! If you got spare points pack Vindis as well, for extra UMPH! That'll make anyone quiver in their boots!

[tvih]

Yes, there's a lot of single-cannon fire because regular piddly bolters just don't do anything to anything, it's a waste of dice rolls half the time like today's matches showed pretty well once again. Take a Dakka Pred that actually has better guns than bolters, but on average still only kills 1 MEq per turn! That's just pathetic. In thursday's list a lot of the "volume of fire" would be the LRC's job, obvious problem being it won't live long enough to live up to the role. And of course against more horde-ish armies I can still shoot quite a few Frag missiles. For all of one turn before the terminators and Typhoons are reduced to scrap, that is.

 

As for LRCs against those flyers... well it doesn't make that much sense. The Hurricane bolters can't hurt the flyers (AV11). Assault Cannon and Multi-melta can, but still only hit with sixes. And in turn you have autohitting strength 10 Death Rays giving you a hard time. Now, of course something like two Land Raiders at 1250pt could possibly keep the flyers busy at least for a while IF they even pay them any mind, but on the other hand it'd leave me with a lot less points for other things. And then other kind of armies could present even bigger issues.

 

As is often the case the problem is not being able to tailor forces to your opponent's list. And there's no such thing as spare points. There's only not enough points. I could take 2000 points to a 1250-point match and I'd still get "tabled" with how things currently are going.

Edited October 22, 2012 by tvih

[Marshal_Roujakis]

Yes, there's a lot of single-cannon fire because regular piddly bolters just don't do anything to anything, it's a waste of dice rolls half the time like today's matches showed pretty well once again. Take a Dakka Pred that actually has better guns than bolters, but on average still only kills 1 MEq per turn! That's just pathetic. In thursday's list a lot of the "volume of fire" would be the LRC's job, obvious problem being it won't live long enough to live up to the role. And of course against more horde-ish armies I can still shoot quite a few Frag missiles. For all of one turn before the terminators and Typhoons are reduced to scrap, that is.

 

As for LRCs against those flyers... well it doesn't make that much sense. The Hurricane bolters can't hurt the flyers (AV11). Assault Cannon and Multi-melta can, but still only hit with sixes. And in turn you have autohitting strength 10 Death Rays giving you a hard time. Now, of course something like two Land Raiders at 1250pt could possibly keep the flyers busy at least for a while IF they even pay them any mind, but on the other hand it'd leave me with a lot less points for other things. And then other kind of armies could present even bigger issues.

 

As is often the case the problem is not being able to tailor forces to your opponent's list. And there's no such thing as spare points. There's only not enough points. I could take 2000 points to a 1250-point match and I'd still get "tabled" with how things currently are going.

 

Then, don't take a LRC and just take a regular LR, twin-linked Lascannon means you could get a second shot of a six w/ those Flyers, and remember aside from the Bastion, Aegis Defence Line and the new C:CSM nobody else gets Skyfire w/c is the only real anti-flyer rule, and ofcourse other Flyers, you don't see the puny Eldar complaining, or the weakling Tau... and they have it even worse, Tau could only fire 1-type of gun against them and that gun is ridiculously expensive.

The trick though is that Templars are most of the time played waaaaaayyyy too aggressively, sometimes I just frag my fire support and make them all melee based, 6 full squads all in Rhino w/ Power weapons/Fists & Flamers/Meltaguns, a SB squad w/ the EC in a Rhino and a MoS in a bike squad w/ Plasma everywhere, and then Turn 2, I'm in your face with everything I have, usually gets my opponent thinking, "Oh, this will be messy...".

Its a gamble, but my opponent and I have a great amount of fun when both of us are fighting with my older Codex, not denting much, and him realizing that he brought a gun to a fist fight, and he can't even get it out of the holster.

Just make sure you get the full mobility out of your vehicles, move 12" + 6" Flat Out and if your Rhino gets immobilised, it could repair itself at your shooting phase, or if the vehicle becomes a wreck, that there is back-up right behind them.

Another note, don't expect you Death Star squad to do everything, regardless of the Codex your using, that's what Darth Vader thought before Luke Skywalker blew it to pieces, get support for them and never leave them walking around alone

like lost children in a theme park, keep 1-2 squads nearby so that they don't get mobbed and if they do, you got something to counter-attack with. I've seen GK players lose Paladins this way... most of them by my hand... :P

 

use this as motivation for your Crusade:

Edited October 22, 2012 by Marshal_Roujakis

[Castellan Alaric]

i am going to humbly disagree that a bolter does nothing man. bring MORE of them. in 6th ed it is ALL about torrent of fire. at 24" you have 3 bolter shots. how bout a 10 man shooty squad with 8 at 24" and 16 at 12". add plasma, rocket, las, or melta to that and that is a decent threat to anyone. why not try running your shooty guys in your rhinos? move up 12", pop smoke for some cover, next turn either do drive-by's with your special/heavy out of the hatch or drop the lot off to really let loose some lead at rapid fire range. different things to think about man.

 

also, i think lascannon sponsons on preds aren't a great idea. 1 shot has a 50/50 chance of doing anything. why not 3 at s5. remember torrent of fire!! with the somewhat reduction in heavier armor lists, those heavy bolters will do more good than bad. if you want to upgrade the autocannon to gain a twin-linked lascannon shot, i am certainly good with that. you lose 1 shot, but gain a twin link, +2s and -2ap value. i think a twin-las/HB pred is a great platform actually. it's just a tad more expensive than the general dakka setup.

 

the aegis and quad-gun are a great idea. cover for a BIG shooty squad to man the gun and get the all important cover saves. blast that heldrake as it comes on the board and keep it from flaming all your valuable crusaders as they plod across the board to get into combat with the enemy.

 

i can't stress enough that you keep trying different things. take a step back and have micro goals. maybe it starts with deploying better, maybe it's committing more forces to grab an obj in the opponents part of the board, maybe it's using the flanks more. there could be other things that are small victories in your game that could be wins for you. find those little victories in order to gain a major victory in the game as a whole.

 

keep the faith brother.

[tvih]

Then, don't take a LRC and just take a regular LR, twin-linked Lascannon means you could get a second shot of a six w/ those Flyers, and remember aside from the Bastion, Aegis Defence Line and the new C:CSM nobody else gets Skyfire w/c is the only real anti-flyer rule, and ofcourse other Flyers, you don't see the puny Eldar complaining, or the weakling Tau... and they have it even worse, Tau could only fire 1-type of gun against them and that gun is ridiculously expensive.

I don't have a normal one, besides why take a LR for Lascannons when two AC+2LC Predators can be had for the same price? If you're actually using it as a transport, the lascannons will probably end up wasted anyway since you're on the move instead of acting as long range heavy fire support.

 

i am going to humbly disagree that a bolter does nothing man. bring MORE of them. in 6th ed it is ALL about torrent of fire. at 24" you have 3 bolter shots. how bout a 10 man shooty squad with 8 at 24" and 16 at 12". add plasma, rocket, las, or melta to that and that is a decent threat to anyone. why not try running your shooty guys in your rhinos? move up 12", pop smoke for some cover, next turn either do drive-by's with your special/heavy out of the hatch or drop the lot off to really let loose some lead at rapid fire range. different things to think about man.

 

also, i think lascannon sponsons on preds aren't a great idea. 1 shot has a 50/50 chance of doing anything. why not 3 at s5. remember torrent of fire!! with the somewhat reduction in heavier armor lists, those heavy bolters will do more good than bad. if you want to upgrade the autocannon to gain a twin-linked lascannon shot, i am certainly good with that. you lose 1 shot, but gain a twin link, +2s and -2ap value. i think a twin-las/HB pred is a great platform actually. it's just a tad more expensive than the general dakka setup.

As much as I hate math-hammering... bolters. You realize that a bolter shot has a mere 11% chance of kill a MEq - first 66% chance to hit, then 50% chance to wound -> 33%, and 33% chance to go past the target's armor save -> 11%. Basically two 10-man bolter squads could spend 6 rounds shooting each other with rapid fire and both squads would, on average, survive with 3 models still standing. Against horde armies it of course works better, but I can hardly plan only for hordes. And like that list above with Kantor? It HAD volume of fire, but it did not work!

 

Also shooty squads in Rhinos is not exactly a new thing to me, it's exactly what I did in the 1000pt tournament for example. And it's what I was planning for Thursday's list too, unless I indeed use the Rhinos as shields for the LRC.

 

The Predators are another math-hammer thing. That lascannon is better than the heavy bolter against MEq. First of all, there's nothing in the game that it can't hurt. That single shot has a roughly 55% chance to kill any infantry model that doesn't have an invulnerability save and/or multiple wounds with T5+ or Eternal Warrior, and a good chance to do something to a vehicle as well. That heavy bolter, on the other hand, has a piddly ~7% chance per shot to kill a terminator, or ~14% chance to kill a MEq. Even against an Ork Boy the chance is only 33%. So on average something like 1 ork boy per heavy bolter. Not exactly fantastic compared to a Lascannon that can theoretically one-shot any vehicle in the game. Especially considering that for example agains the Dark Eldar my problem has been taking down the damned vehicles. If I could blow them up before the troops inside have a chance to disembark, that would help quite a bit.

 

In general I need the Predators precisely for heavy fire support, not "more dakka". As much as I like Dakka Predators outside of gaming performance - I would much rather run them than las Preds just like how I like dakka Razorbacks - they just don't deliver against MEq and vehicles. Especially with a Templar list the problem is that if your heavy weapons are infantry-based, you're actually losing on that volume of fire, because shooting a tank with the Crusader squad's lascannon marine means the 3+ bolters and possibly that plasma gun or such are most likely wasted due to being out of reach and/or the target being too heavily armored. It's why devastator squads are expensive for other codices - because they're just plain better due to being able to have 4 heavy weapons in one squad and thus most weapons being able to damage what it is you're shooting at. As it is the AC instead of a TLLC is already a compromise, because the TLLC would be better but I ran out of points unless I'd skip a Typhoon. Which I might.

 

--

 

The gist of it is that while my list aren't 100% optimized, in some parts because I just don't have the appropriate vehicle models, only being able to destroy 10-20% of the enemy while being blown off the table is just silly. There's just zero fun involved. And no, while they're not BAD players that I'm facing, they're not the greatest either. I know the rules as well as they do, I know the tactics involved. But it just doesn't seem to help.

 

Speaking of vehicle models though, here's something suitably retarded:

 

MoS PFist+Pistol

EC SNTUTL

Crusader Squad PFist+4xBP&CCW+3xBP&CCW Neo+Rhino

Crusader Squad HB+5x Bolter

1x AC+DCCW Dread

1x Tri-las Predator

2x Vindicator

3x LS Typhoon

 

Or how about...

 

Castellan PAxe+BP

EC SNTUTL

Crusader Squad 5x BP+CCW

Crusader Squad 5x Bolter

2x Vindicator

9x LS Typhoon

 

:tu:

 

Could just as well run those for all the good it would do if models weren't the problem (well, the first I actually could run at least in December, the second not so much since I'm not gonna buy THAT many Typhoons).

 

What's funny though is that that second list especially might've actually beat the Dark Eldar dude (my horrible rolls notwithstanding), because that many Typhoons would've likely presented serious problems for his transports and with transports down his foot troops wouldn't have been able to do much to them, only having pistols for ranged combat basically. And of course unless they managed to charge the Vindicators prior to the Vindis getting a shot off, that could've been ugly for them as well.

Edited October 23, 2012 by tvih