Zhukov Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 So the codex is here. (well officially tomorrow but everybody who already wanted to know the rules knows it by now) I'll add more thoughts later but for now: -Powerwise, also against them, we (Chaos) seem okay'ish. (Helldrakes + Plasma does the job, wouldn't try it without Helldrakes though; I think we pretty much arrived at a mono build now) -Regarding the total package, it's rather sad. They got a codex like everybody here wanted. Full of options, flavour and not simple copy paste work. Is it usefull to keep whining for a long time? No, but I guess people have the right to utter some frustration. I mean, I'm not a dreamer, but even I feel this a bit, it seems a bit... unfair? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 We've already got quite a few threads about whining so let's stay away from that. What sort of things should we look out for with DA? I'm not going to read the codex until I borrow it from a DA player. What sort of things are auto include for us now? Seems Helldrakes are definitely a must. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AL13N Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 May I ask why a must? For Helldrake? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Is it usefull to keep whining for a long time? No, but I guess people have the right to utter some frustration. I mean, I'm not a dreamer, but even I feel this a bit, it seems a bit... unfair? I dont remember if I said it on this or on another forum , but for me faction loyality died in 5th ed and in 6th it doesnt even make sense . Waiting 5 years and getting something you may not like , sucks hard . It has nothing to do with fair/unfair imo .GW doesnt see codex design with that perspective[nothing wrong with it by the way]. It is better to play an IG army with some SW ally as your traitor guard +csm , then getting frustrated that cultists+csm +predators doesnt . Just like you said , I dont think that the DA codex is broken . it isnt . It is what a non main faction codex should be , different with options [so the fandom doesnt stop growing and that people have a lot of stuff to try out] . am very happy that the DA players get it . the fact that two DW armies can be different is a dream come true . the realy "broken" codex are coming in the future . But the DA dex is going to be a dex that ages well . In 4-5 codex time people using the DA dex will be having fun , playing different builds and people will be using them as ally too. Am not sure if the same is true for the chaos dex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nehekhare Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 utter [...] frustration. fixed ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevak Dal Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 In all honesty, I'm frustrated but I'm happy at the same time, because it means (theoretically) my Tau should be coming up sooner rather than later. I'm fairly happy with how my Chaos army is coming, though I'm leaning away from Legions and towards my own Warband. I'll be poised to make use of the upcoming Codex Space Marines that will be glorious should I desire a different playstyle with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 Bah, typical. Chaos had more bad codices than decent in their history, so it makes sense to me that we are again given a soon-to-be monobuild codex. To make it short, that's Chaos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nehekhare Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 blood of kittens feels naughty today (if you haven't got the codex yet) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron_Within Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 Yeah, 4+ Invulnerable for angels.... same price as a 5+ invulnerable for Chaos.... and it causes blind... 1 point more to gain stubborn ATSNKF, Plasma Cannons as cheap as a M,launcher... 10 points cheaper than a reaper autocannon on Terminators. Seriously, what the hell? Nicely costed codex, just so horribly highlights the crappy-ness of our own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HJL Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 for the same cost we got votlw, reroll hits in CC and ld 10, id say its even. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 for the same cost we got votlw, reroll hits in CC and ld 10, id say its even. Well... DA DW Knights got +1AP to their weapons VS CSM... Their DW TDA (the "standard ones") also have twin-linked weapons when they Deep Strike and they will likely never scatter, arriving on turn 1 or 2 at their discretion We know GW loves DA more than Chaos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaz Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 Just reading through my copy right now.. Edited: Not double plasma in squads, read it wrong. Bikes are a mark of nurgle +1 point more costly than ours. Still digesting the rest of the book, more comments later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HJL Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 but we have oblitorators, a non sucky flier and cheesier than Wisconsin nurgle+nurgle allies crazy 2+ fnp lists. it says they can take 1 special or heavy weapon if the squad numbers less than 10 men, and 1 special and heavy if 10. no 2 special weapon squads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nehekhare Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 for the same cost we got votlw, reroll hits in CC and ld 10, id say its even. you forgot ATSKNF I'd say marines without it are appropriately costed at 10pts/dude, like tac squads in HH. but we have oblitorators, a non sucky flier and cheesier than Wisconsin nurgle+nurgle allies crazy 2+ fnp lists. oblits suck without fearless tally combo isn't that great on CSM units and only works because MoN is the only viable one on most units anyway. Will be faq'ed away within 3 months anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derpasaurus Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 my buddy picked it up just a while ago, he's been texting me details. sounds like there's a couple of omg:cussbbq squads and i've been hearing people with leaks over the past few days saying at first glance it looks broken but should turn out to be fairly even with our power level overall. he suggested i bring some kleenex to our game tomorrow to dry my traitorous tears with, nonetheless. VIII legion will do their best, tho, so we shall see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 Sounds like a fun codex for them, grats guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanctimonius Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Hmm... Not as bad as I was thinking. They get plenty of fearless and non-running away, but are more expensive to boot. I can take it, we seem pretty even - though I'd like to see some battle reports. And still doesn't make up for our codex problems :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent Purple Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Dwing are 4 points more expensive than standard terminators, but get PE chaos, fearless, D-wing assault, and twin-linked weapons off the deep strike, plus split fire. All this crap costs DA 20/40 points more than standard loyalist terminators on a 5/10 man squad. To buy snipable fearless on our crap terminators costs +35 points.... DA tac marines are a whole 1 point more expensive for all the extra rules they get, as has been pointed out already. DA ASM are same points as raptors, so I guess fear is equal to stubborn, combat squads, and ATSKNF... Their command squad can get a banner that makes all units within 6" have salvo 2/4 weapons too or 12" feel no pain bubble, so you can make your army mini noise marines or mini plauge marines for relatively few points (provided you get enough squads within range). Elite CC deathwing unit gets AP3 power mauls against chaos, indepentent characters can join units to give them PE Typical crap GW quality on the editing though, belial may or may not have an iron halo, they forgot to write plasma talons as rapid fire in the armour section, darkshrould landspeeder has stealth special rule in army list but not in unit entry.... I used to play dark angels before jervis ruined them for a second time with the 4th ed dex. The DA Dex on the whole feels much more complete and refreshing than the faildex, which was basically just phil pushing around some of the peanuts in gav's turd. The unequal treatment and obvious balance issues when looking at point costs on CSM units vs DA units (GW really undervalues ATSKNF and combat squads) is really killing what remains of my desire to stay with chaos. That Vetock decided to make DA superawesome vs chaos is just an added kick in the nuts - basically another direct nerf to chaos. Grim resolve (stubbon with no voluntary fall back ever) is kind of a crappy rule though. Assuming C:SM when redone keeps the same unit layout for tacs/asm/devs etc... some of the vanilla chapters which will probably have better chapter tactic rules will be even better in comparison to faildex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ferox Heartcleaver Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 My WE aren't well equipped to handle terminators in the first place, and with all the benefits DW get against Chaos and how my meta tends to go when a new marine codex comes out, my response has been to take my DEldar off the shelf and show people the weaknesses of terminators until the bandwagon syndrome settles down. If terminator-heavy armies weren't going to get popular or I had the cash for a Heldrake to deal with the Ravenwing stuff, I'd keep taking skulls for Khorne. But for now, it's back to the sadistic space elves until I've appropriately sized up the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 oblits suck without fearless Oblits have the Daemon rule, fearless is included in that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 actualy that is includes in the chaos demons deamon rule . in the rule book one they arent fearless . that was the problem with flamers and all the new WD demons when they came out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Dwing are 4 points more expensive than standard terminators, but get PE chaos, fearless, D-wing assault, and twin-linked weapons off the deep strike, plus split fire. All this crap costs DA 20/40 points more than standard loyalist terminators on a 5/10 man squad. And what about the Black Knights? They are not cheap but they get a twin linked plasma with a slight reduced range, scout and skilled pilots. A plasma gun biker from HH book costs about 10 points more then those knights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nehekhare Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Oblits have the Daemon rule, fearless is included in that. That makes sense and I wish it was true, too ;) But as it is, a daemon (USR) is not a daemon (C:CD) is not a daemon (Daemon Prince "marks" in C:CSM). This confusion of terminology even led to the RAW interpretation of the DP giving armywide buffs to all "daemons of xxx" (as in: if you have a DP of tzeentch, tzeentch-marked oblits and/or allied flamers - as "daemons of tzeentch" - would all re-roll saves of 1). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevak Dal Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 I wonder how exactly the benefits against Chaos are going to benefit them when all the Chaos Players drop flags and go to Loyalist marine books (space wolves etc.)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nehekhare Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 it's pretty much the same with all xenos: marines sell, the rest is there for the roflstomping. Chaos is a xenos faction: we don't get ATSKNF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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