Vesper Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 I'm also not happy about strong bonuses being given to certain armies against very specific enemies. In the grim darkness of a far future, there is only rock paper scissor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 If you get everything coming in at once it can be great but you risk being eaten piecemeal. the new DW rules let them pick which unit comes on which turn . That is a very powerful rule . In the end it is much more important then PE vs chaos or even split fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 What about castling with a LR? Yeah it kind of sucks to get one but if there's a chance of going against DW that LR could absorb a ton of fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaria Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 soooooo yeah. Â i played a deathwing army yesterday. let's just say i won't be doing that agian. Â what the $#!+!? deep strike no scatter turn 1 or 2, twin linked on turn of arrival AND splitfire? did GW even consider what that would do to anyone? how about this: 2 rhinos, 8 marines, 5 havocs dead before the bottom of turn 1. oh and a wound on my helbrute. and i didn't even have to deal with knights and their crap +1 ap vs chaos rule. And just less than 12 hours ago I saw everyone whining that Dark Angels codex was crappy and no good... Anyway, one question: How did that "no scatter" happen? The Deathwing don't have a rule that prevents scatter and Belial can only provide scatter protection for one unit so was it the Ravenwing teleport homers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellios Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 If you get everything coming in at once it can be great but you risk being eaten piecemeal. the new DW rules let them pick which unit comes on which turn . That is a very powerful rule . In the end it is much more important then PE vs chaos or even split fire. Â I know, Sorry for not being clear. I meant that reserving some units in the chaos force could protect them from the DW Alphastrike. However that leaves whatever is on the board very vulnerable and your reserves are also very much left to the luck of your dice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 ah yeah sorry , missunderstood ye. My bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pivich Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 What about castling with a LR? Yeah it kind of sucks to get one but if there's a chance of going against DW that LR could absorb a ton of fire. Or take a bastion, hide one unit inside it, shoot from the roof with intercept quad-gun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VoteForPedro Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 and what is this mono build? i would like to know. Not just "'spawn heldrakes" because thats not a list. Thats like saying necrons are mono build, just "spawn night scythes and grey knight allies" Â I'm not sure we're quite at a monobuild yet, just that Baleflamer Heldrakes are so brilliant an army without them would be sorely lacking. I can see the majority of tournament players building around something like the below to most tournaments in a couple of years. Lord on bike, MoN, Burning Brand Nurgle Bikers Plague Marines Multiple Heldrakes Some cultists to sit on an objective Oblits/ Havocs as required. Now, I'm sure the exact list will vary (maybe double Lord/ Bikes for example) but that seems like a solid core. Obviously tournament play isn't everything (and I don't play a list like the above). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Polaria, I haven't seen any threads about the DA codex sucking and I've been looking for threads about it's strengths/weaknesses. There's a few about disappointments but that's all. Â @Pivich, they could still destroy the bastion though couldn't they? Maybe we could try reserving everything we possibly can, then whatever is left could possibly be castled in a corner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazath Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 I did see people moaning about how bad DA assault marines are though. They were saying how superior raptors are compared to assault marines... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Yeah they're "disappointed" but big deal. They got a brand new codex with tons of fluffy options and tons of competitive builds. Why would they really want to take ASM when they have bikes anyway? Hardly very comforting that one of our units is better and usually people will use bikes/spawn/drakes before using raptors anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azekai Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 I did see people moaning about how bad DA assault marines are though. They were saying how superior raptors are compared to assault marines... Well, then they must be bad, because raptors sure ain't much to write home about. But I think that DA have plenty of alternatives. Why would people mess with assault marines with FA options like ravenwing availible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 What a useless discussion the raptor vs assault marines is, it's not like anybody's going to take either due to the better choices in both FA sections... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derpasaurus Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 And just less than 12 hours ago I saw everyone whining that Dark Angels codex was crappy and no good... Anyway, one question: How did that "no scatter" happen? The Deathwing don't have a rule that prevents scatter and Belial can only provide scatter protection for one unit so was it the Ravenwing teleport homers? yup. sad chaos panda. Â helbear? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nehekhare Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 helbear? Â HELHUG!!! http://puppetswar.com/img/p/9-534-thickbox.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llagos_Tyrant Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 What a useless discussion the raptor vs assault marines is, it's not like anybody's going to take either due to the better choices in both FA sections... Â I just finished a squad of Raptors and I'm looking forward to using them, though I have admittedly never played a proper game since 4th ed - and then I was too young to care, and played with store models in store-hosted mega battles. Those were the days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Evar Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Well, I will retire my chaos when the new SM dex shows. I won't play against DA in pick up games if its that bad. Don't have the cash to get more 40K stuff ATM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nehekhare Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Passing on an opportunity to play isn't the answer imo - better search for rules to make it happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spafe Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Huh, I am using raptors, whats so terrible about them? 7/6 with flamer, MoS and P/Maul on boss makes nice cheap interception unit. Â TBH most of their powerful stuff costs appropriate, so yes while we have units that are weaker, we should bring more to bear. We can weight of fire their nasty termies down, as if they are getting a 2+ then who cares what their invun is? Â I'm not sold on their tacs being better either, they are capped at 10, and cant run 2 spec. we then have access to uber grit, or ccw that they dont, and marks/icons. So I reckon we're in with a shot either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Huh, I am using raptors, whats so terrible about them? bikers are better and have better synergy with our HQ , as anti tank units bikers are cheaper . many things. Â I'm not sold on their tacs being better either, they are capped at 10, and cant run 2 spec. we then have access to uber grit, or ccw that they dont, and marks/icons. imagine you could take csm 10 mans with 2 hvy weapons or 2 specials and then combat squad them . that is what DAs are right now . 2x5 dudes 2 las cannons . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Tacs have that thing jeske mentioned and they also have the dakka banner which gives them salvo 4 bolters.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Huh, I am using raptors, whats so terrible about them? 7/6 with flamer, MoS and P/Maul on boss makes nice cheap interception unit. Â Raptors aren't bad. Maybe a point or two overpriced, but that's still only what, five, ten points on a unit? Not really noticeable. The problem is that bikes are only a few more points a model, and are much much better at almost anything raptors can do. Â Min size suicide tank hunters with some meltaguns? Bikes have smaller min units, making them actually cheaper. Less wounds but more toughness makes them similarly durable, but both units dissolve if something looks at them funny and rely on terrain to cover their advance. Â Larger assault or escort squads? Bikes are more survivable (higher toughness), more attacks on the charge (always get HoW, assault squads generally have to jump in the movement phase and thus don't get HoW in the assault phase), and the nigh obligatory in this role vets upgrade is cheaper for them (so the difference is only two points, not three). Also, bikes have more shooting going in thanks to fire & assault combi bolters (and plasma, if you take them). Â The only thing bikes don't do that raptors can is deep strike behind tanks to fire special weapons at rear armor, and without reserves manipulation the raptors aren't exactly good at that. I guess raptors can jump onto higher levels of buildings & landing platforms, but... yeah. Â Â Of course, if you're not playing in an uber competitive environment, raptors are still okay as a unit, and they're far cheaper (in terms of real money) and prettier than the chaos bike models. So there you go. Raptors are an okay unit that look awesome and aren't too terribly painful on your wallet. The only thing the really suffer from rules-wise is that bikes are the same thing but better. Â If raptors only had to pay one point for their vets upgrade, and if bikes had to pay extra for their ccweps like regular chaos marines do, and if the army had access to some meaningful reserves manipulation, then maybe raptors could be their own thing rather than just "bikes minus". As it is.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Amarel Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 DA Assault are kind of okay - 105pts for 5 guys with 2 Flamers in a Drop Pod with Teleport Homer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Sage Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Meh, I`ve read the DA codex, and I don`t get what everyone is up in arms about. Our codex is just as good as theirs, just different and maybe more boring, but hardly weaker. Â That having been said, I really liked the DA codex. Vetok did a nice job and it will be fun to play against, balanced and nice as it is ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minionboy Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Meh, I`ve read the DA codex, and I don`t get what everyone is up in arms about. Our codex is just as good as theirs, just different and maybe more boring, but hardly weaker. That having been said, I really liked the DA codex. Vetok did a nice job and it will be fun to play against, balanced and nice as it is But their's is NEWER! You just dont understand... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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