The Dark Angels have arrived; discuss

[the jeske]

Honestly, the game is in a retarded state at the moment:

-Mech doesn't work well anymore, so people run more units on foot.

-Units on foot get harcountered by Helldrakes and Daemons.

-Cron air and Vendettas fly around making "trololol" noises in the meanwhile.

av14 IG builds work just fine . I imagine a DA/IG or IG/DA build like this . you take av14 . 3 russes or 2x2 if your IG. then you take 3 vendetta or 2x2 if your IG , you take chimer vets and DA minimax [well they arent realy true minimax , but as close to them as possible]. perfectly viable mecha list . What azrael does with an IG blob is beyond stupid . Its only weakness was vunerability to no cover stuff like whirlis[not taken most of the time] or bale flamers[always taken all the time]. now the blob has a +4inv , with a possible hvy av14 support section standing on top of a landing pad with another +4inv. worse of it this is still cheap enough to run either some flyer vets or chimera vets and those cheap DA minimax[probably bubble wraping the armored support section] .

 

But it doesnt matter what I say in the end . anyone can go and test it this weekend.

 

 

you know what I worry against Z ? if one day we get a solid army that hard counters drakes [lets say nids with their flyer spam or eldar due to their warlord traits/special rules messing up reservs] , what are we going to base the army on ?

[Zhukov]

you know what I worry against Z ? if one day we get a solid army that hard counters drakes [lets say nids with their flyer spam or eldar due to their warlord traits/special rules messing up reservs] , what are we going to base the army on ?

Well in that case the complete meta will shift, because that means Vendettas and Scythes get destroyed too, so I honestly wouldn't know. But yeah, we do rely a lot (too much) on the helldrake atm, which can go very bad :P

[Kol Saresk]

Zhukov, let me clarify. By everyone, I just mean in general. I'm asking for ways to deal with the Azrael+Deathwing+IG Blob list(that is the problem I was talking about), and the only people who have come up with any ideas(on this thread) are Tanith and Iron Sage. That doesn't help the 99.9% of people who visit these forums. That's all I am asking is for all possible solutions to be laid out on the table, whether it be tactics, or what. If the solution is build the MoN Biker Lord List and just weather the storm, then that is a solution. If it is Juggerlod+Spawn List, or a Zerker MEQ list or the NM+Steed Lord List, then just put it down. What do you think is the best way to play against the Azrael+Deathwing+IG list? What tactics would you recommend? Weather the storm? Keep a majority in reserves and then bring them out after the Deathwing DS? That's all I am and was trying to ask for.

[Lepaca]

How to deal with the Azrael + IG blob list?

 

Easy, wait till GW FAQs Azrael to only pass his 4++ on to units from Codex: DA.

You know that they just overlooked this until now.

[the jeske]

What do you think is the best way to play against the Azrael+Deathwing+IG list? What tactics would you recommend? Weather the storm? Keep a majority in reserves and then bring them out after the Deathwing DS? That's all I am and was trying to ask for.

nothing chaos can do is viable enough to beat an IG blob , because we dont have the assault options to destroy it fast enough [fearless 40+man squads that is minimum 4 turns of challanges , we would have to charge it with two biker units , if the IG player lets that happen then he is a bad one or we had some odd set up , like 2 sorc rolling invibility twice] and we cant auto shot an IG army . But the most problematic part of an IG list is not that we can beat it with a normal list , it is that if we tailor against IG we get whooped hard by SW and necron builds .

 

as to what to do . puting a majority of your army in reservs against an army which can freely manipulate theirs and can be viabliy run reserv debuff units is asking for getting tabled or being pushed out of objective too fast.

[Excessus]

Azzy and blob is rather costly though. A min-sized bike squad or similar(for grabbing challenges) and a mace daemon prince should mop that up pretty quickly, the mace does not care for his 4++...

[Kol Saresk]

Hmm, and the Black Mace has that AoE effect when it kills someone too. So if Azrael has a Blob with him, take out Azrael the first turn of combat, then kill an IG character the next turn, Toughness tests all around in three inches.

 

Jeske, if we could get say, 8-10 Zerkers charging into an IG Blob, what do you believe would happen then?

[Sception]

How is the prince going to take out azrael in a challenge? How are you going to get him into a challenge? He can just refuse, sit in the back, and let the hidden fists in the squad punch up your prince, and that's assuming the considerable ranged firepower of an IG/DA army didn't drop your prince out of the sky on the way in. Sure, you'll cause some carnage, but I'm not sure it's the best way to deal with that mess.

[Kol Saresk]

The Black Mace only needs to cause one unsaved Wound to cause a mini to be removed from the game. "A single scratch" so to speak. Yes, the above was a pitch perfect scenario. Again, how to keep Deathwing from killing him on their way in, getting him there and everything else are all separate problems.

[derpasaurus]

as i said last week on one of the earlier pages of this thread: sweet baby jesus, DW. i played 2 games with different strategies and neither seemed to work.

 

i like the idea of heavy reserves in theory, but as stated above, if you reserve too much they can table you on turn 1 or 2. especially if they got first turn.

i also did kind of a denied flank setup, trying to spread a bit thinner and distance out the targets, hoping they'd do the same with their deepstrikes to pick out the dangerous stuff, which would spread the damage and allow me to focus fire a bit in return. they just all dropped on one end, busted me up and everything that was still alive was out of range, immobilized, stunned, and/or below combat effectiveness.

 

based on these, i think castling in a corner with vehicles up against an edge so they can't land on your rear armor is the best option for my army, at least. that way, whatever's still alive is all in one place an can blast the mob of termies on the next half of the turn. but even that's no good, really, because of the sheer volume of fire they put out you're basically at the mercy of the dice.

 

the drake doesn't even scare them much, everything's ap3 so they get all their saves. the things that did the most damage for me in both games were my vindi and plasma fiend. i didn't have the points to include the 3rd cannon, that probably would have been awesome. so .. castle your pie plates. i guess.

oh, and pray to the dark gods for .. uh, mercy?

[Kol Saresk]

And you played against a straight up Deathwing army or was it the mixed list?

[derpasaurus]

it was deathwing with ravenwing guiding the rest with their homers. :(

[Kol Saresk]

Ah.

[Zhukov]

What do you think is the best way to play against the Azrael+Deathwing+IG list? What tactics would you recommend? Weather the storm? Keep a majority in reserves and then bring them out after the Deathwing DS? That's all I am and was trying to ask for.

nothing chaos can do is viable enough to beat an IG blob , because we dont have the assault options to destroy it fast enough [fearless 40+man squads that is minimum 4 turns of challanges , we would have to charge it with two biker units , if the IG player lets that happen then he is a bad one or we had some odd set up , like 2 sorc rolling invibility twice] and we cant auto shot an IG army . But the most problematic part of an IG list is not that we can beat it with a normal list , it is that if we tailor against IG we get whooped hard by SW and necron builds .

 

as to what to do . puting a majority of your army in reservs against an army which can freely manipulate theirs and can be viabliy run reserv debuff units is asking for getting tabled or being pushed out of objective too fast.

Spawn are pretty okay against IG. Spawn are actually okay against several stuff out there at the moment. (they're nice to have against deathwing and daemons too for example)

 

Problem I'm running into is this:

Oblits + Havocs = lack of melta in the list, so you would want bikes with melta, not Spawn.

Oblits = lack of Havocs, so I'm running issues against Transports spam.

 

:(

[the jeske]

yep that is the problem . one can try to tailor against an IG/DA list , but it only works if your opponent doesnt . I mean if he can tailor too , he will just take SW and some serious problem start for us , because big bike units are no longer that good[+4 dispel on invisibility] and while we can roll over DA minimax runing over GH is not so easy.

 

But in the end in comes to what we both agreed on . It is possible to build a chaos army you want to play [but duh that can be done with random units] , but a true balanced list not realy. not till IG get a new dex. Or until someone gets anti IG for free in their dex along side good anti meq .