Cmdr Shepard Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 Greetings fellow Legionaries, I'm thinking about starting a "Pride of the Legion" army because I like the idea of fielding a Legiones Astartes force focused on Veterans and TDA. My question is: How effective is such army? Both unit are quite expensive and that will probably translate in a small number of models, especially at 2000 pts, the common game format at my local gaming community. However TDA would be very resiliant while veterans quite versatile (mixture of special/heavy and power weapons; veteran tactics). What do you think about it? I need your help before I start the project and buy all of those Legion TDAs Thank You for your assistance. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269371-pride-of-the-legion-armies-how-effective-are-they/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Furor Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 The basic HH army I'm doing is going to be pride of the legion as it's Iron Hands based, in my 2k I'll have a ten man cataphractii squad with Praetor in a Spartan Assault tank as well as a 20 man normal marine unit, a 10 man veteran unit, a vindicator, a contemptor, and a whirlwind, I think it'll be fun to play and isn't that small. Not a lot can kill a spartan and 10/11 cataphractii armed marines tbh. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269371-pride-of-the-legion-armies-how-effective-are-they/#findComment-3281055 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted January 13, 2013 Author Share Posted January 13, 2013 The basic HH army I'm doing is going to be pride of the legion as it's Iron Hands based, in my 2k I'll have a ten man cataphractii squad with Praetor in a Spartan Assault tank as well as a 20 man normal marine unit, a 10 man veteran unit, a vindicator, a contemptor, and a whirlwind, I think it'll be fun to play and isn't that small. Not a lot can kill a spartan and 10/11 cataphractii armed marines tbh. It sounds a good plan. I was thinking about a TDA and Veterans heavy list but a 20 men tact squad is always an useful addition to most HH army. Personally I'd go with 1 or 2 Apotecharies, if there are points available for them. A Primus Medicae attached to the TDA squad will make them even more resiliant. The only problem I have with the Spartan is it's availability. Due to high demands FW site suggest to order it alone and since I prefer to place larger order to save on shipping I never had the chance to acquire it. I may try to contact FW and ask about the Spartan current availability.... Anyway do you give armoured ceramite and flare shield to the Spartan? They are not cheap upgrades but they greately increase its survivability. Chainfists and melta bombs are still a threat but if they come that close you have 11 cataphractii terminators Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269371-pride-of-the-legion-armies-how-effective-are-they/#findComment-3281657 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Furor Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Yeah mine does have the armoured ceramite and flare shield, this is my list as it currently looks. I think it's well rounded and has enough to counter anything that may come up, including aerial attacks.   HQ  Praetor - Cataphractii armour / Lightning Claws / (Pride of the Legion) - 155  Troops   Legion Cataphractii Squad (x10) - Reaper Autocannons (x2) / Thunder Hammers (x4) / Pair of Lightning Claws (x4) / Chain fist (x2) - 475  Legion Veteran Tactical Squad ( x10) - Tank Hunters / Artificer armour / Thunder hammer / Melta-guns (x2) / Combi-melta - 270 Rhino - Combi-melta / Auxilary drive / Extra armour - 65  Legion Tactical Squad (x20) - Artificer armour / Power axe - 270   Elites  Contemptor Dreadnought - Kheres Assault Cannon / Extra armour - 200   Heavy Support Legion Spartan Assault Tank - Auxilary drive / Flare shield / Armoured ceramite / Frag Assault Launchers - 360  Vindicator - Auxilary Drive - 130  Whirlwind - Hyperios air-defence missiles - 75   Total - 2000 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269371-pride-of-the-legion-armies-how-effective-are-they/#findComment-3281807 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted January 13, 2013 Author Share Posted January 13, 2013 Interesting list. What about Plasma Blasters for the TDAs? Since you plan to embark them they shouldn't have any range issue. Â I know the availability of points limits our options but I really like Paragon Blade on Praetor. If they can exchange both pistol and chainsword/combat blade (I know there is some controversy on the rule's text) the praetor could take both the Paragon balde for duelling with HQ or attacking 2+ saves models and choose the claw if he want to clear MEQ from his path. He should also get +1 attack for having two sepcialist weapons. Â I just noticed this is available only for artificier armoured praetors and that will increase the cost. I don't even know if they can take both weapons anyway, so you praetor seems very "cost efficient". Â I suppose you included a Kheres/DCCW Contemptor instead then a duel Kherese in case your walker is involved in close combat. Do you think the extra armour is very useful on a contemptor? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269371-pride-of-the-legion-armies-how-effective-are-they/#findComment-3281819 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Furor Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 I discussed the Plasma Blasters elsewhere and figured that the autocannons gave more flexibility. For example once they get to their objective and destroy what ever is there, they either mount up and drive off the objective which isn't advisable as they are a scoring unit that will be hard to move, or they sit there and if they sit there then the autocannons give them the chance to take shots at things including lightly armoured transports etc. I could also potentially add combi-plasmas if I do need that extra close range fire power. Â You're right, the praetor was for more cost effect that ability. Have to have a praetor to use the rite of war and I figured duel lightning claws would help cut down more normal marines and be fluff appropriate because Santar used them. Â Yeah I wanted my army to be versatile and be able to compensate for things due to their very elite role which is why I only went for a single assault cannon on the dread, Plus I loved the look of the Iron Hands Contemptor in visions of heresy and wanted to kind of replicate it. I added the extra armour because with 6 shots needing 6s via snap shots I think there's a good chance it'll hit, I'm not sure if the rending rule applies to during snap shots but if you rols 6s with the assault cannon is counts as rending to, so I figured it was worth giving it the extra armour. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269371-pride-of-the-legion-armies-how-effective-are-they/#findComment-3281874 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLÅ’ FLY Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 I am building a PotL army... Luna Wolves are a great choice for your Legion in my opinion. The standard terminator is a real bargain for the points and they have lots of cool options such as Volkite Chargers. I am planning to run lots of armor and the Spartan assault tank will be the center piece of my army. I plan to take lots of upgrades such as WoT has posted... The Flare Shield and Ceramite Plating make them impervious to S8 and meltas beyond 1/2 range from the front and it will have Phobos patterned land raider on either side. You can take a grenade harness as an alternative to the frag grenade assault launcher. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269371-pride-of-the-legion-armies-how-effective-are-they/#findComment-3282476 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted January 14, 2013 Author Share Posted January 14, 2013 I discussed the Plasma Blasters elsewhere and figured that the autocannons gave more flexibility. For example once they get to their objective and destroy what ever is there, they either mount up and drive off the objective which isn't advisable as they are a scoring unit that will be hard to move, or they sit there and if they sit there then the autocannons give them the chance to take shots at things including lightly armoured transports etc. I could also potentially add combi-plasmas if I do need that extra close range fire power. With just one TDA tasked to "clear" an objective it makes sense indeed. I'm sure the enemy will throw their strongest units to those TDA, hence the plasma blaster could be useful, but those 36" S7 twin linked shots from the reaper cannon may offer a better versatility. With two 10 men TDA units I'd try one with 2 reapers and one with 2 blasters. One more question: Do you prefer Thunder hammers for fluff reasons? I ask this because in most HH players tend to prefer power fists for their cost-efficiency ratio. Hammers are nice when they reduce to I 1 a model they don't kill, though I am building a PotL army... Luna Wolves are a great choice for your Legion in my opinion. The standard terminator is a real bargain for the points and they have lots of cool options such as Volkite Chargers. I am planning to run lots of armor and the Spartan assault tank will be the center piece of my army. I plan to take lots of upgrades such as WoT has posted... The Flare Shield and Ceramite Plating make them impervious to S8 and meltas beyond 1/2 range from the front and it will have Phobos patterned land raider on either side. You can take a grenade harness as an alternative to the frag grenade assault launcher. I agree on Luna Wolves. Currently they are my favorite Legion to play. "Merciless fighters" is simply amazing. In the last, very small match I played the rule allowed me to kill the last enemy model, preventing another enemy unit to charge me while I was engaged with the last, fearless model in the unit I was fighting. Impressive, most impressive The ability to reroll 1s when making reserves rolls is always useful. I know if you don't have flyers you will rarely put units in reserve but when you do it gives you an advantage. About the Spartan: you can give it armoured ceramite and you will be immune to melta guns attacking on the flare shield side. Chainfists and melta bombs will be your main concern. I tried the Volkite charges for TDA in a 1000 pts boarding mission/zone mortalis match and they weren't "resolutive" but they opened fire on a FNP unit. They inflicted more damage then combi bolters, though. In a larger game, with vehicles arounds, I don't know if they would be a better choice then combi weapons. Perhaps with more then one TDA unit we can give them to the "anti infantry" TDA unit. So one with blasters and volkite, one with reapers and combi weapons... What do you think? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269371-pride-of-the-legion-armies-how-effective-are-they/#findComment-3282685 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLÅ’ FLY Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Definitely I think it's good to have a more robust army. One TDA squad with two reapers give you the long range then another squad with blasters and chargers can clear out infantry. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269371-pride-of-the-legion-armies-how-effective-are-they/#findComment-3282827 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Furor Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Well I went with lightning claws and thunder hammers because they come in the same forgeworld pack :P Also I like the look of them more and it is kind of fluffy to have a big smithing hammer. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269371-pride-of-the-legion-armies-how-effective-are-they/#findComment-3282831 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLÅ’ FLY Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Thunder hammers look cool too. I like the ones for Justrearins (sp?) . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269371-pride-of-the-legion-armies-how-effective-are-they/#findComment-3282838 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted January 14, 2013 Author Share Posted January 14, 2013 Definitely I think it's good to have a more robust army. One TDA squad with two reapers give you the long range then another squad with blasters and chargers can clear out infantry. I agree. I was talking about the case when you have the chance to field more TDAs squads but that would happen in quite large matches Well I went with lightning claws and thunder hammers because they come in the same forgeworld pack Also I like the look of them more and it is kind of fluffy to have a big smithing hammer. True. They are very good looking. Thunder hammers look cool too. I like the ones for Justrearins (sp?) . The Justaerin weapons pack contains power axes not thunder hammers... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269371-pride-of-the-legion-armies-how-effective-are-they/#findComment-3282907 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLÅ’ FLY Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 You're right but they do look a lot like hammers.. Sure will be glad when mine arrive. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269371-pride-of-the-legion-armies-how-effective-are-they/#findComment-3283160 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted January 15, 2013 Author Share Posted January 15, 2013 You're right but they do look a lot like hammers.. Sure will be glad when mine arrive. They are very good looking weapons, indeed Anyway a part from the modelling aspect I wonder if power fist would be a better cost effective choice for TDAs. Thunder Hammer costs more and the only additional benefit you have is the chance to reduce multi wounds EW/ high T models to I1 and force survived vehicles to snap shot. They are nice effects but are they worth their cost for every terminator model? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269371-pride-of-the-legion-armies-how-effective-are-they/#findComment-3284080 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Furor Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Not every Terminator model, only 4 of them. 4 pairs of lightning claws, 4 thunder hammers, 2 chain fists and 2 autocannons. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269371-pride-of-the-legion-armies-how-effective-are-they/#findComment-3284291 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted January 15, 2013 Author Share Posted January 15, 2013 Not every Terminator model, only 4 of them. 4 pairs of lightning claws, 4 thunder hammers, 2 chain fists and 2 autocannons. I was just thinking about the "general concept" not the "specific case" In other words I was wondering if the cost-efficiency ratio of thunder hammers was good enough to prefer them over power fists... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269371-pride-of-the-legion-armies-how-effective-are-they/#findComment-3284364 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Furor Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 I wouldn't say they were worth it, two or three just for the concussion effect but the rest just power fists. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269371-pride-of-the-legion-armies-how-effective-are-they/#findComment-3284858 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted January 16, 2013 Author Share Posted January 16, 2013 I wouldn't say they were worth it, two or three just for the concussion effect but the rest just power fists. This sounds a good plan. Personally I like the two chainfists you added to your list. Very useful against those armoured ceramite vehicles Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269371-pride-of-the-legion-armies-how-effective-are-they/#findComment-3285351 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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