captain Angel Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Belial is an outstanding character. He has an excellent statline, and prevents his unit from scattering when deepstriking, has an iron halo as well as needing only a Pros: keeps initiative, extra attack +5 to single out models from shooting. In this article I will look at the pros and cons of is weapons, and see what is the preferred. Thunderhammer and stormshield. This used to be almost the go to option for him, as he had no iron halo. Pros: high strength, better protected Cons: he loses his Initiative, stormshield is Pros: keeps initiative, extra attack points extra. Loses shooting bonus Lightning claws. These are the second option of last edition Pros: keeps initiative, extra attack Cons: none really, low strength mitigated from the fact that he re-roles to wound. Loses shooting bonus. Sword of silence and stormbolter. This was overlooked greatly last edition, but now it has become great. Pros: wounds on a 2 plus with his sword against models with a toughness value! Cons: I may be biased, but I cannot think of anything. As you can see, I find that the sword is the best of these three. Please comment with your input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightmare84 Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 His a solid choice. I have run him with bolter and sword only so far and I like it a lot. I don't see me going back to hammer. The 5+ precision is too good with amount of plasma spam I face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isiah Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Vengeful Strike too. The SoS and storm bolter seem a well-rounded choice once again. Cheers I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facmanpob Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Yep, I'm definitely sticking with sword and bolter this time round...his high initiative and iron halo are the keys here. Also, however, so long as there is a storm shield as a character (sergeant) to accept challenges, Belial is free to wipe out the rest of the unit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Immolator Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 I am kinda dissapointed both for the model itself (name a more anticipated model in the whole of 40k all these years) and the fact that it comes with only one option while the rules allow three. Though there is a model now with the sword and all, my half finished one is still going to be Sword / Stb. I just feel his signature weapon cant be left behind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlauG Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 I will be using the Sword and SB from the actual model on my (thankfully pre-magnetised!) converted one based on the Space Hulk Librarian... I built him with a custom set of Lightning Claws, and to switch out with one of my spare TH/SS Marines where appropriate. I CAN mod the new Belial's legs with relative ease, but I'm not sure I can be bothered, considering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Avoghai Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Well I'm kinda satisfied by the model because I initially feared that the cape might be sculpted at the back of the shoulder pads hence preventing me to change the position of the arms. I'm happy to see that I can lower both arms and therefore preventing the "hey look! I've found some great weapons here!" :-p Now I need to find a solution for the legs but I already have an idea... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kastor Krieg Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Do share? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gratan Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 I'm actually quite happy with the model. when seen first hand, it doesnt look as bad as the pictures do. Also, I think one of the problems people seem to be having is more of an illusion than anything. This is the first terminator mini (or almost any Space Marine mini actually) that is somewhat standing straight and not bent at the knees like he is having a bowel movement in his suit... This has been the standard Space Marine pose for nearly 20 years, and I think people are so used to it that anything else looks funny. I for one am glad he is not a Poop Marine! I will be fielding him with SoS and Stormbolter. I am glad its a viable option and not pidgeonholed into TH/SS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoggNewTrix Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 At least the arms are seperate so it lends itself to customizing as one sees fit. I'm a bit bummed that mine is missing the tip of the sword. Stupid finecast.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Sergeant Bohemond Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 I like how there actually is a real choice now in the weapons we can use, and that his starting combo is worth it. Personally, I will be using his sword and bolter, as I think his rule is too good not to use. the only con to SoS/SS is the AP 3, but hey, thats always the issue when running with PS, and you have the save issue with claws Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerixis Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 I love the statline and the majority of the model, but the knock-kneed and pigeon-toed legs irk me somewhat. I'm simply going to sculpt either some more robs to envelope the legs or cover the legs in purity seals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elphilo Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 I'm really happy his SoS and bolter are a viable choice. When he came out last edition I would run him like that for the few first month out of principal. Those are a symbol of his rank. Why wouldn't he take it? Unfortunatly it wasn't a viable option in game terms. Bummed me out. But now, it seems really good! I can't wait to field him as he should of been feilded originally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin_eX Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Running the numbers, the Sword of Silence and Storm Bolter are better against every target with a toughness greater than 3 (compared to the Lightning Claws). The other upside is that he can continue to use Vengeful Strike and Marked for Retribution in this build. The Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield provide a survivability boost with a greater invulnerable save and allows him to deal with 2+ saves (which makes him great in a Knight squad). If you are fighting an army where you expect to see few saves greater than 3+ then I would go with the Sword of Silence and Storm Bolter every time. The master-crafted re-roll and ability to wound on 2+ at initiative is marvelous and the ability to snipe better with you Storm Bolter is quite nice as well. If you are looking to field Belial as a melee beatstick alongside a squad of Deathwing Knights, then I'd go with the Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield. You lose out on VS and Marked for Retribution but this is made up for with the ability to one-shot some targets and deal with 2+ saves while become much harder to kill. Combined with Fortress of Shields this will make Belial a pretty good fighter in general. But if he is dropping with a Command Squad or regular Deathwing squad then Sword of Silence and SB all the way. Unfortunately, unless you are facing down an army with mostly T3 models (including the characters) then the Lightning Claws are kind of a waste. And even if you are facing down such an army, the loss of all of your shooting to be only marginally better in hand-to-hand is situational at best. I'd still probably stick to SoS+SB in those cases simply because it makes him better on the drop and likely nets him the extra kills to mitigate the difference between the SoS+SB loadout and the TLC loadout. The TH/SS is for when you want an all-out beatstick. Truth be told, I'd probably field it in a list that doesn't take a load of Deathwing. Just a big DWK unit with Belial in it, deep striking exactly where they want to. The perfect one-drop Deathstar in a list that isn't relying on Deathwing for scoring troops. I'm liking that his utility expands beyond simply allowing you to take Deathwing as troops now. He's a unit I can see slotting in to just about any list with one Deathwing squad in it because of Tactical Percision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polythemus Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 interstingly, belial no longer has the rites of battle rule allowing others to use his leadership, only azreal does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlauG Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 interstingly, belial no longer has the rites of battle rule allowing others to use his leadership, only azreal does. Not too surprising, as our previous Company Master also had "Rites of Battle" and no longer has it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lothlorienmoon Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 I like the Belial rules, I just hate the new model. Yes, he is standing (which is cool), but it looks like his knees are turned in towards one another, giving him a "GOTTA PEE GOTTA PEE" dance-stance going on. I just can't get past it. After seeing what someone has thrown together from the new kits, I for one will be kit bashing my own Belial when it comes time for me to use him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wraithwing Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Not a fan of the new Belial miniature. He's not horrendous, but he doesn't immediately grab me, as other minis have. As I suspected, we're already seeing kit-bashes that look better than the fine-cast version pop up. To anyone who has Belial, can you let me know what component parts he comes in? E.g. Are the arms separate Head? Back banner? Better yet, anyone have pics of the sprue? Enquiring minds need to know! Cheers, WW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlauG Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Belial breaks down; Rear Torso Banner Left arm Right arm Heraldic shield Everything else. No pics as I can't open mine until next weekend due to a self-imposed vow. <_< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wraithwing Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Belial breaks down; Rear Torso Banner Left arm Right arm Heraldic shield Everything else. No pics as I can't open mine until next weekend due to a self-imposed vow. Possible to easily dremel his head off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlauG Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 The "arch" over his head is part of the main torso piece. It;d probably be easier to do without destroying that with a small chisel and sharp craft knife than a power tool, but as it's finecast it's pretty easy all the same. Alternatively you could probably just cut the whole lot off and then cut the arch away from the head afterwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wraithwing Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 The "arch" over his head is part of the main torso piece. It;d probably be easier to do without destroying that with a small chisel and sharp craft knife than a power tool, but as it's finecast it's pretty easy all the same. Alternatively you could probably just cut the whole lot off and then cut the arch away from the head afterwards. Interesting. Thanks for the feedback. The things that stand out as off about Belial, IMO, are the face sculpt, leg pose, and back banner. The Back Banner can easily be replaced, and I can live with the legs, but the face sculpt needs to go. I'll likely use one of the Deathwing Knight hooded heads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlauG Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Really? I quite like the face, myself. I would prefer a... shoutier one, though. I'm almost tempted to transfer the head over to my custom Belial, even. Given that it's a hooded cloak, you could always cut out the face and insert a different face underneath, the hood itself is quite nice and has a little bit of detail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plastic Rat Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Wouldn't it be really easy to convert up a better looking and easily magnetized Belial from the Deathwing Knights box and some other bits? As it is he looks so similar to the Deathwing Knights. Also be easy to replace the massive tombstone on his back with something better looking like a banner with personal heraldry. Plus it's one less Finecast model to deal with. So far my army is Finecast free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elphilo Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 To anyone who has Belial, can you let me know what component parts he comes in? E.g. Are the arms separate Head? Back banner? Better yet, anyone have pics of the sprue? Enquiring minds need to know! Cheers, WW So I've said I wasn't going to use his new model because I don't like it. I'm still sticking with that, but I did want to grab his storm bolter and Power Sword to put on my conversion. So with that out of the way, I know someone said what the break down was, but I uploaded a few pictures. The album is here.I'm too lazy at the moment to re-size the images to thumb nails and then link it to the full size. Regardless, enjoy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.