What to do with Azrael?

[Drunkspleen]

So I really like Azrael for a great number of reasons, I like the Double Wing army he enables, I like that he retained Rites of Battle, I like that he gets to choose his warlord trait, and I'm sure there is a great way to use that conferred 4+ Invulnerable save from the Lion Helm.

 

My problem is I can't figure out where he should go in an army, attaching him to Tactical Marines or Devastators seems like a waste of his melee abilities, and a steep price to pay to confer a 4+ invulnerable to those units, attaching him to a Deathwing squad denies them the ability to make a Deathwing Assault and the 4+ invuln is only a marginal benefit, attaching to Ravenwing is right out for obvious reasons.

 

Really I keep coming back to Command Squads, but then I end up investing so many points into them that they cost as much as a Deathwing squad, and, even with the Invulnerable save and FNP it's hard to reconcile that sort of cost with a Power Armoured unit for me.

 

So does anyone have good units for Azrael to accompany?

[Brother-Sergeant Bohemond]

Perhaps a Command Squad with a host of power weapons and an apothecary and perhaps the DA Chapter Banner? Stick a Chaplain in with him for hatred, and you have a pretty hard hitting squad, especially if you chuck them all in one Landraider.

[IanSturrock]

I was thinking cheap Command Squad, personally -- apothecary, champion, and (optionally) a banner.

[Polythemus]

Gotta agree with behemond. The landraider is the way to go here. Its not like youll be hurting for heavy slots and youll be able to protect your banner assuming its effects can spread through its walls. Then you give everybody powerweaps add a chaplain and banner of your choice. Could be nasty.

[Seahawk]

I'm going to use him the same way as before: with a command squad of doom + Ezekiel. It's new and improved too, let's compare:

 

Old version: 210 points + 225 (Azrael) + 170 (Ezekiel) + 250 (Land Raider)

- Chapter banner

- Apothecary

- 2 plasma pistols

- 2 power axes

 

New version: 235 points + 215 (Azrael) + 145 (Ezekiel) + 250 (Land Raider)

- Chapter banner w/storm shield

- Apothecary

- 2 plasma pistols

- 2 power axes

 

So, for the exact same point cost, the group gains a 3+ inv save on the banner of +1A, +1 WS (from Ez, also to units within 6"), +1S on the charge (from Az warlord trait), +2 psychic powers per turn, and my whole army gains Ld10 (from Az), all over the previous incarnation.

 

Yea, TOTALLY worth it.

[IndigoJack]

I actually like him with the devs. Sure, it seems like a waste, but he gives them a 4+ invul against that wretched heldrake and unlocks DW and RW. IMO, that's definitely worth his price tag.

[Seahawk]

You know, a Skyshield Landing Platform gives as many squads as will fit on a 4+ invulnerable save for 140 less points. Azrael is an absolute complete waste to have sitting with a Devastator squad.

[L30n1d4s]

This is a bit of heresy, but I think Azrael might actually combine very well with allied SM Honor Guard and Chapter Banner (could use them as "counts as" DA honor guard)

 

-Combined with their 2+ save, he gives them a 4++, making them quite survivable

-Combined with their 2 base attacks + 1 for extra CCW + 1 for banner, he gives them Furious Charge (with WL Trait) --- if you give the Honor Guard Power Axes, that's 5 S6 AP2 attacks per model on the charge... since the entire unit is in AA, they can still conduct Sweeping Advances

-Azrael has Fearless and PE: CSM from Inner Circle, so therefore the Honor Guard get these two abilities themselves by having him attached

-Normally the Honor Guard has limited Firepower (BPs only, unless they pay an arm and a leg for Auxiliary Grenade Launchers), so Azrael gives them a little shooty "punch" with his Lions Wrath

-Chapter Banner doesn't just affect Honor Guard, but also gives Azrael +1A, for 6 attacks on the charge

-Chapter Champion can absorb challenges for Azrael when necessary and can do quite well against enemy characters (2+/4++, 6 S6 AP2, WS5 attacks on the charge)

-This unit could synergize well with RAS and DW Terminators, both unlocked at Troops by Azrael, as it provides a very hard-hitting CC unit to compliment the mobility (RAS) and durability/firepower (DW Terminator) of these two types of scoring units.

 

The only issue I see is mobility (well, and that's a lot of points too ;) ) Since they can't share a transport (allies rules), they have to footslog... unless you have a Librarian with Gates of Infinity or something like that to "bounce" the unit in the enemy's face turn 1. If you can use FW, the Sevrin Loth is an option, since he unlocks Honor Guard and can get the entire Telekinesis discipline, guaranteeing Gates of Infinity in the Mix.

[IndigoJack]

You know, a Skyshield Landing Platform gives as many squads as will fit on a 4+ invulnerable save for 140 less points. Azrael is an absolute complete waste to have sitting with a Devastator squad.

 

Except unlike the skyshield, azrael unlocks DW and RW as troops, and provides Ld10 across the board, meaning you don't have to pay for any vet sgt upgrades to improve Ld. It also lets you take another fortification if you want, instead of being stuck with just the skyshield. Seriously, unlocking doublewing alone makes the 215pts worth it. Far better than paying the 335pts for belial and sammy in the last codex. Sure, some of his awesome stats might be wasted, but his force multiplier more than makes up for it. I'm not saying sticking him with devs is the only option, or even the best, but it is hardly an absolute complete waste.

[Kastor Krieg]

Absolute fire magnet though, killing this unit lets your opponent demolish your AT capabilities and at the same time slay your warlord. I'd stick him with a CQ in a LRC, with the dakkapole and an Apoth. Surround it with 4 squads of RW, add DW to taste, squeeze a DerpSpeeder in if you got those 80 pts left and you're golden.

[Interrogator Stobz]

I would stay a little fluffy and attach him to a shooty DW Comd Sqd; give them a Dakka pole and an Apothecary an add them as punch to a green tide. Add other units as required to use his unlocking skills. Remember the other guy only needs to be dead not overkilled and efficiency is just as important as deathstars.

 

2c

s

[Dr Zaius]

With a Death Company from Blood Angels Allies.

[Seahawk]

You know, a Skyshield Landing Platform gives as many squads as will fit on a 4+ invulnerable save for 140 less points. Azrael is an absolute complete waste to have sitting with a Devastator squad.

 

Except unlike the skyshield, azrael unlocks DW and RW as troops, and provides Ld10 across the board, meaning you don't have to pay for any vet sgt upgrades to improve Ld. It also lets you take another fortification if you want, instead of being stuck with just the skyshield. Seriously, unlocking doublewing alone makes the 215pts worth it. Far better than paying the 335pts for belial and sammy in the last codex. Sure, some of his awesome stats might be wasted, but his force multiplier more than makes up for it. I'm not saying sticking him with devs is the only option, or even the best, but it is hardly an absolute complete waste.

No, it's still 100% wasteful. I never said to not take Azrael at all, I said to stick him in a useless spot is bad. 290 points means you have like 4 squads get a 4+ inv save, plus all that Azrael gives. Far more worth it.

[IndigoJack]

Absolute fire magnet though, killing this unit lets your opponent demolish your AT capabilities and at the same time slay your warlord. I'd stick him with a CQ in a LRC, with the dakkapole and an Apoth. Surround it with 4 squads of RW, add DW to taste, squeeze a DerpSpeeder in if you got those 80 pts left and you're golden.

 

True, but that's why you provide other fire magnets as well. If your opponent decides to shoot at them instead of your black knights, DW, DW knights, they may be in for a world of hurt next turn. I like your idea too though, and I'm considering doing something along those lines with my DA.

 

I would stay a little fluffy and attach him to a shooty DW Comd Sqd; give them a Dakka pole and an Apothecary an add them as punch to a green tide. Add other units as required to use his unlocking skills. Remember the other guy only needs to be dead not overkilled and efficiency is just as important as deathstars.

 

2c

s

 

I absolutely agree about efficiency, and I think it's something a lot of people tend to overlook.

 

You know, a Skyshield Landing Platform gives as many squads as will fit on a 4+ invulnerable save for 140 less points. Azrael is an absolute complete waste to have sitting with a Devastator squad.

 

Except unlike the skyshield, azrael unlocks DW and RW as troops, and provides Ld10 across the board, meaning you don't have to pay for any vet sgt upgrades to improve Ld. It also lets you take another fortification if you want, instead of being stuck with just the skyshield. Seriously, unlocking doublewing alone makes the 215pts worth it. Far better than paying the 335pts for belial and sammy in the last codex. Sure, some of his awesome stats might be wasted, but his force multiplier more than makes up for it. I'm not saying sticking him with devs is the only option, or even the best, but it is hardly an absolute complete waste.

No, it's still 100% wasteful. I never said to not take Azrael at all, I said to stick him in a useless spot is bad. 290 points means you have like 4 squads get a 4+ inv save, plus all that Azrael gives. Far more worth it.

 

I'm not sure you understand what "absolute" and "100%" mean. Let's look and see how much of a waste sticking him there might actually be.

 

Out of his statline, he'll likely only make use of BS, T, W, Ld, and Sv, so that's 4/9.

krak grenades: not likely

frag grenades: probably not

protector: 6+ fnp? I can see him using that

lion's wrath: I'm sure he's going to shoot at something.

sword of secrets: nope

Lion Helm: isn't that why I put him there?

Warlord trait: yes, please

IC: yup

Inner Circle: Now my devs won't run ever!

Rites of Battle: Doesn't matter where I stick him, everyone gets to use his Ld.

Supreme Grand Master of the Dark Angels: This depends on whether or not you took RW or DW, but I'm going to say yes to this one.

 

So out of rules and wargear, that's 3/11. Combine that with his stats and all things being equal, that's a 40% waste. Of course, all thing aren't equal and his two most important rules (Rites of Battle and Spreme Grand Master) don't care where he goes. I'm not saying sticking him with devs is the best idea, though it isn't a bad one, and you wouldn't be wrong for doing it.

 

The biggest problem with the skyshield, is that you don't get access to a gun with interceptor. That's a big deal when there are fliers that you don't want shooting at you.