BFG 30k - How to play Battlefleet Gothic games set in 30k?

[malika666]

Kind of as the next step to Captain Semper's list of space ships of the Crusade/Heresy, I think many of us would like to play a game of BFG set during the Great Crusade or Horus Heresy.

 

But how would that work? Many types of ships available in the game haven't been designed yet, there are also types of ships which no longer exist in the 40k universe. Beyond that, there is no real separation between Loyalist and Traitor fleets yet.

 

So I was wondering what your ideas on this are?

 

One thing we have to keep in mind here is that there hasn't been the separation of powers introduced by Guilliman after the Heresy, meaning the fleets can contain pretty much all kinds of stuff. Space Marines can have normal fleets, Imperial Army fleets could have Astartes detachments and commanders as well. And then there are of course the whole list of possible Legion specific rules...

 

So yeah, what are your ideas on this? Lets get a discussion going and maybe we'll be able to play some Crusade/Heresy era games of BFG

[GodEmperorOfMankind]

I'd say just use the traitor fleet list and that's your lot. Maybe have some of the frigates from the imperial section, but really all the legions had is what chaos have now

[malika666]

But erm, most of the Chaos ships in the current BFG list seem to be post-Heresy designs...

[GodEmperorOfMankind]

Not at all, there are plenty of ships in there from the crusade era. I'll hve to have a nose when I'm home

[Captain Semper]

I think this is an area where GW (or FW?) can really capitalize on. There are a lot of famous ships during the heresy and a lot of unique classes... It'll be great to use the BFG ruleset (which I think works fine) and add famous Heresy/Great Crusade ships - like Special Characters, i.e. each one being unique. The Kingships for example of the Flafships of the Primarchs... It'll also be awesome to provide a list of upgrades so people might be able to customise their own Flagship - say something along the lines: the Iron Warriors Flagship of the 321st Expedition under Warsmith X of the Y Great Company that has extra armour and a special kind f torpedoe load out. That way people could really palyout the Hesesy naval battles adding a lot of flavor to them.

 

So more rules and the occasional exotic vessel and BAM! You got BFG 30k!

 

Here'sto hoping! :D

[malika666]

We had sort of the same thought over at the First Expedition forums. If we can get enough animo for this type of stuff, FW might be adding BFG stuff to their heresy releases.

 

One major obstacle we first need to defeat is to have a more or less complete list of which types of ships were available during the Great Crusade and Horus Heresy. It does take a bit of searching around since it isn't just a case of "just use the Chaos/Imperium list" since many of the ships in those lists are post-Heresy (for some reason the Imperium has become really innovative later on, but seems to give morbid names to ships that all coincidentally end up turning Traitor).

 

But another thing that is important to remember is that the military powers of the Imperium haven't been segregated yet. Space Marines do have full naval powers, the Imperial Army includes both ground and naval forces, etc.

 

So once we got the list of available ships, we'd need to look at how they would work in a game of 30k styled BFG. What kind of upgrades, special ships/units/etc are out there? The World Eaters for example use Ursus claws, the Alpha Legion's Primarch might be everywhere, and so on.

 

By the way, we've already have a parallel thread opened about this topic over at The First Expedition - link - I've also opened a discussion about it on DakkaDakka, and hopefully we can also get Warseer and the guys from Warp Rift involved here...

[Octavulg]

Imperial ships that are pre-Heresy

Emperor-class

Apocalypse-class

Oberon-class

Vengeance-class

 

Possibly:

Retribution-class

Dauntless

Sword

Avenger-class

Exorcist-class

 

Chaos ships that are pre-Heresy

Desolator

 

Possibly (but unlikely):

Styx

Hades

Devastation

Murder

Carnage

Slaughter

[Raven Angel]

None of the Chaos cruisers date from the HH. This is a fact. the Styx is the oldest by far and only goes back to M32. The Dauntless and Sword Classes are also unlikely to be HH era as their prow design is indicative of M36 hull types that came to dominate the Imperial navy.

 

You need to add Vengeance, Retaliator, and Executor class Grand cruisers.

[Octavulg]

Assuming you're talking about my list:

 

The Emperor and Apocalypse have similar prow designs and predate the Heresy. 

 

Regarding the Chaos cruisers, the language on those I listed is ambiguous.  It's unlikely, but it's not impossible that they are Heresy-era. 

 

If you're talking about my list, the Executor and Vengeance are on it.  The Retaliator's fluff, IIRC, describes it in such a fashion as to suggest that it was more recent than the Heresy (and that there were about four of them). 

[Raven Angel]

I was referencing to the armored prow which is not present in the Emperor and Apocalypse classes.

[Octavulg]

...The Apocalypse has an armored prow (Voss-pattern, but still). The Emperor's isn't armored, but it is of a similar profile.

[Raven Angel]

Let me preface this post with the note that this is at least in part supposition based on my research going all the way back to Space Fleet. While this is mainly unspoken in modern BFG it seam the intention was originally for each Fleet Base and other forge worlds to have visual components and even whole designs or variants unique to them. As near as I can piece together the prows of the "modern" Imperial ships are suppose to be the new(M35/M36) Martian/Jovian yard type prow. The Chaos cruiser and Desolator prows are meant to be the Cypra Mundi type prows. The Repulsive prow is meant to be the Hydraphur type prow. The Vengeance and Cobra prows are the ancient Martian/Jovian type prow.

 

It is also worth noting that the modern descriptive information in BFG publication is completely at odds with how other vehicles are described in the 40K universe. BFG throws the word class around in much the same way we would talk about Land Raider variants for instance. What that means is that the different "Classes" of human ships do not represent individual STC designs. They are all variants of a hand full of STCs that for the most part date back to the Crusade Era. The Luna/Mars STC may be a far for recent rediscovery as the late M35 marks the first confirmed appearance of any designs tide to the STC pattern. The bulk of confirmed HH Core STCs are found in the Chaos ships but hear again you are only looking at 4 STCs, The Termina Est hull, the Desolator hull, the Styx/Murder hull, and the Havoc/Infidel hull. The Imperial fleet ads 3 more STCs. The Base Battleship hull, The Vengeance hull, and the Cobra hull. There is as yet no definitive data ting any of the other human hulls directly to the HH era and any SM date is often contradictory as evidenced in the cases of the Conqueror  and Vengeful Spirit. The official 2010 rule show vessels that are variants of the existing Chaos ships, but the Collected visions art is not even close. Add to that the HH novel descriptions which also don't match the rules and you are left scratching you head. 

[AllHailTheMachine]

There is definitely room for forgeworld to give gothic a new lease of life in the heresy. A reprint of the core gothic rules, stats and rules for famous ships and a campaign including the rules for linking to 40k done mortalis boarding actions and planetary assailed and you have one fine supplement to the game and that fits incredibly well with the ongoing horus heresy book series.