Incoming Heresy models

[Sevatar]

I think they will have a Honour Guard unit for Gulliman - like the Axes of Ultramar, so to speak.

[GrandMagnus]

I think they will have a Honour Guard unit for Gulliman - like the Axes of Ultramar, so to speak.

Could be, that actually wouldnt be too bad. Altough  I hope they dont call them Axes of Ultramar haha. Praetorian Guard sounds much better (and is more roman themed).

But I think its mostly going to be a veteran squad or something like that. I wonder what Legiones Astartes rules Ultramarines will have...

[Greyall]

Ultras could also do with a 'Breacher-style' (in terms of wargear) melee squad, a phalanx with power-gladiuses and shields, barrier-squads organized during Calth and the war against the Bearers and Eaters to keep berzerkers and possessed from reaching Devastators, Rapiers, etc.

 

Now that I think of it, Imperial Fists suffer from the same problem. Breacher squads fit them nicely, but are already a given for every Chapter. Breacher Terminators? We have yet to see the Hammer+Shield variant applied to Tartaros and Cataphractii.

[GrandMagnus]

Yeah, I was wandering what happened to the storm shields so maybe they will end up being an exclusive IF item. And that Phalanx idea isnt bad at all, I can imagine it fitting in very well. 

 

But riddle me this: Blood Angels already have a plastic set of sanguinary guard, so what is FW going to do about that. Any ideas? I suppose they could redo them but it seems a bit redundant.

[Coopervisor]

Yeah, I was wandering what happened to the storm shields so maybe they will end up being an exclusive IF item. And that Phalanx idea isnt bad at all, I can imagine it fitting in very well. 

 

But riddle me this: Blood Angels already have a plastic set of sanguinary guard, so what is FW going to do about that. Any ideas? I suppose they could redo them but it seems a bit redundant.

 

Storm Shields are mentioned in The Crimson Fist short being wielded by Imperial Fists, so there is precedent.

 

As for Blood Angels, would the sanguinary guard have the death masks at that point? A mkIV version of the sanguinary guard could be good especially going off the standard we've seen in the palatine blades / WIP Word Bearer destroyers. Although admittedly the current SG set is pretty nice and already has mkIV jump packs. (I've used various parts from those sets on my heresy BA already)

 

One thing the BA do need heresy wise is an option for JP equipped apothecaries to be able to join assault squads and a response I had from FW hints that maybe the case:

"The limitations on equipment and the squads that Apothecaries can join in purely from a game balance point so as not to make certain squads from the Legion list too powerful.  However, certain Legions may well have caveats to these restrictions as we progress through the Horus Heresy book range."

[Greyall]

There's definitely room for more baroque Sanguinary Guard, but I very much doubt they'd clone a unit from GW. Blood Angels, I think, can do with sort of a jump-Palatine Blades, but that kind of juxtaposes with Sanguinary Guard.

Also, that response sounds like more than just a hint

[GrandMagnus]

I have seen the teasers from the Open Day with the SofH upgrade pack (torsos, heads, pauldrons, backpacks with vexillas) and Im curious to see how they will do these upgrades for other legions.

 

http://zweischneid.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/sons-of-horus.jpg

http://tykensrift.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/img_0033.jpg

http://tykensrift.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/img_0042.jpg

[Greyall]

Ooh, I'd forgotten about those. Simply beautiful. And those are actually pretty versatile, a cut or two and they'll fit almost any Legion.

 

This kind of upgrade kit isn't as mandatory as, say, shoulderpads, so release for other Legions might depend from the team's time and inspiration - even more than any release does, of course =p Looking at those, I'd say it's well worth any wait.

[Vesper]

Just saw the Palatine Blades.

They look so damn awesome.

[Onisuzume]

Yeah, I was wandering what happened to the storm shields so maybe they will end up being an exclusive IF item. And that Phalanx idea isnt bad at all, I can imagine it fitting in very well.

And what about the Deathwing?

But riddle me this: Blood Angels already have a plastic set of sanguinary guard, so what is FW going to do about that. Any ideas? I suppose they could redo them but it seems a bit redundant.

Don't think those are Mk II-IV armours, so I wouldn't be too surprised if FW would do them.

[Kol Saresk]

 

 

Yeah, I was wandering what happened to the storm shields so maybe they will end up being an exclusive IF item. And that Phalanx idea isnt bad at all, I can imagine it fitting in very well.

And what about the Deathwing?

The Deathwing is a post-Heresy formation. The Imperial Fists are not.

 

Currently(in modern 40K), everyone and their dog who has a First Company that uses Terminator suits has access to Storm Shields. Fluffwise speaking.

 

In 30K, so far the only examples of the top of my head are Perturabo's Iron Circle(six robots IIRC) and a single Ultramarine from Iron Within. Not exactly a whole lot.

[Greyall]

Was the Deathwing notorious at the time of the Heresy? Well, anyways, Dark Angels could sport shields too (shield+sword in a Knight configuration) but it might just as well gravitate towards a Deathwing Champion format, with big damn swords. Still, Dark Angels have a more defined theme, so theirs is a world of many possibilites for special units. Rules also help differentiate, of course, so two equal configurations end up with different results because Dorn made better hammers and stronger shields.

 

If FW can put their twist on the Sanguinary Guard, sure, but I really don't see that one coming. I'm thinking that, whenever said Legion doesn't have an 'obvious' special squad (and SG, while obvious, has already been done), FW will go for more specific, more original solutions, such as the Circle of Ashes.

[GrandMagnus]

Was the Deathwing notorious at the time of the Heresy? Well, anyways, Dark Angels could sport shields too (shield+sword in a Knight configuration) but it might just as well gravitate towards a Deathwing Champion format, with big damn swords. Still, Dark Angels have a more defined theme, so theirs is a world of many possibilites for special units. Rules also help differentiate, of course, so two equal configurations end up with different results because Dorn made better hammers and stronger shields.

 

If FW can put their twist on the Sanguinary Guard, sure, but I really don't see that one coming. I'm thinking that, whenever said Legion doesn't have an 'obvious' special squad (and SG, while obvious, has already been done), FW will go for more specific, more original solutions, such as the Circle of Ashes.

Ive always thought of the Dark Angels to be more fond of wielding claymores and halberd rather than sword and shield combination wich feels much more like a Imperial Fists kind of theme.

 

And doesnt it say in the SG description that they are ornate suits of power armour created during the great crusade?

[Coopervisor]

And doesnt it say in the SG description that they are ornate suits of power armour created during the great crusade?

 

The SG entry in the codex is a little odd as it says that only 1 SG survived the final battle, yet it goes on to mention that each SG suit of armour is "one of a handful of surviving suits from the times of the Great Crusade, whose secrets of manufacture have long since been lost." 

 

The Deathwing is a post-Heresy formation. The Imperial Fists are not.

 

Currently(in modern 40K), everyone and their dog who has a First Company that uses Terminator suits has access to Storm Shields. Fluffwise speaking.

 

In 30K, so far the only examples of the top of my head are Perturabo's Iron Circle(six robots IIRC) and a single Ultramarine from Iron Within. Not exactly a whole lot.

 

Page 101 in The Crimson Fist has an IF terminator with a storm shield. (page 102 also has a description of the "new" assault cannon)

[Kol Saresk]

Fair enough. Like I said, I just listed the examples off the top of my head.

 

On the note of the SG, I don't see a reason for conflict. Just because a Space Marine died doesn't necessarliy mean his armor was destroyed beyond repair. As long as even the slightest hope of repair existed, the suit "survived" the battle.

[Greyall]

That's pretty normal, Power Armour tends to outlive its wearer. Plus, if the Angels recovered the fallens' bodies and started armour repairs right away, then the manufacturing process would still be 'common sense'. But I guess that does make SG a no-go, since the suits are already from the time of the Crusade.

 

I drew a concept piece of an Imperial Fist Breacher Terminator in the 'Banner' Armour Mark (the roundish one) some time ago. To my memory, FW hasn't ruled out new Marks of Terminator Armour, since the thing was in sort of an experimental phase and various Marks were being tested. It's a possibility.

 

Also, Fists are known as masters of defense, one can not rule out more defensive units or special Heavy Weapons Squads.

[The4thHorseman]

One thing that bugs me to no end is that the armor that the 40k Sanguary Guard wear is NOT the same as Mephiston or Dante. Its like halfway between. I hope that FW's armor, if they do something like that for the BAs is like a whole Squad in Armor that LOOKS like Dante and not a Fat Man Suit version.

 

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m990183a_99120101085_BASanguinaryGuard4_445x319.jpg

 

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1000277a_99060101027_BADante_445x319.jpg

[facmanpob]

Greyall, on 10 Jul 2013 - 14:49, said:

Was the Deathwing notorious at the time of the Heresy? Well, anyways, Dark Angels could sport shields too

In the Dark Angels codex it says that on ascension to the rank of Deathwing Knight, the "Watchers in the Dark present to him a mace of absolution and a storm shield - heirlooms of the Great Crusade". So it would appear that Dark Angels terminators used maces and shields during the Crusade. We also know that The Lion used a big mahusive sword in Prince of Crows, so it stands to reason that the sword would be a terminator weapon as well (DW Sergeants still retain the power sword as their only weapon option in 40k).

 

As far as the Deathwing organisation itself goes, I was always under the impression that it only came into existence as a result of the requirement to hunt the Fallen. Prior to that Terminators would have been a specific part of their parent Chapter as part of the Legion.

 

The Ravenwing, on the other hand, is specifically mentioned as being in existence on Caliban prior to the Emperor's arrival (Descent of angels)

[Greyall]

Jetbike Ravenwing would see many a wallet cry, for sure.

 

Thanks for the info, Facman. While my skepticism hinders my enthusiasm, I am very much in favour of FW releasing Ye Ol' versions of 40K units, such as the Sanguinary Guard or the Dark Angel Wings. It's arguably a risky move from a business point of view (canibalising), but it sure as hell would tickle everyone's Astartes-loving glands.

 

€4th Horseman: But then Dante would be the same as his Honour Guard. I see your point, though I likes me Marines bulky, but Chapter Masters have to (should) get the special snowflake badge in the form of wargear.

[Knight of the Raven]

World Eaters are noted alongside the Imperial Fists and Iron Warriors to have made breacher siege warfare "their particular concern." Perhaps they'll get close combat breachers in the future.

But it's just as likely that they won't, as they'll probably get more khornate units as time goes by and 'defense' is a concept utterly alien to berzerkers.

[Kol Saresk]

"The best defense is a good offense." By the way, I still want to know where that came from.

 

Anyway, I think the XII Legion has that down in spades. They do have an armor regiment after all.

[Greyall]

I'm pretty dry on the World Eaters apart from an Autocannon squad or the Devourers, but even Angron doesn't think they're that much of an elite...

[Kol Saresk]

Well when the Devourers were formed, basically anyone who wanted to join had to fight each other over the right to join in. So out of everyone who tried to join, the Devourers are the Elite. Angron's disdain comes from the fact he doesn't think he needs bodyguards and that their Terminator armor prevents them from keeping pace.

 

The other problem is that warriors like Khârn and Bloodspitter are better than the average Devourer so the fact that they are not the true Elite hurts their standing within the Legion.

 

On the note of Breachers, in Betrayer there was a group of 500 World Eaters called the Triarii. They excel at ship-to-ship combat and like any World Eater, they're a good fight on the ground. So if Forgeworld decides to give the XII a specialty Breacher Squad, the Triarii(or something like them) is the way to go.

[Greyall]

I was actually thinking about Delvarus, guy would make one hell of a mini, especially since he wields a Meteor Hammer. As a curiosity, in the old Visions Artbooks Delvarus was the name of a World Eaters Possessed Squad. And, for whatever hunch, I've always assumed they're keeping that path in the HH novels.

[Kol Saresk]

It's a possibility. He's one of the proudest warriors in the Legion and it took like what? Twelve top-notch World Eaters to wear him fown to the point someone could kill him? Sounds like a perfect candidate for possession.