Advice needed about Ironclad Dread loadout...

[Aqui]

Hello

I succumbed to temptation and bought an Ironclad Dreadnought today, and I'm currently building an army list, but I need clarification on a few things. The Ironclad, according to the SM codex, states in the options amongst others: two Hunter killer Missiles and Ironclad assault launchers. My question is, is it legal to take both, or is it that you take one option OR the other. It doesn't say "or", but I've never seen an Ironclad Dread picture online or anywhere else with both options, so I want to check. The Dreadnought will have the "standard" loadout regardless (Seismic hammer and melta, with DCCW with Storm Bolter) of what I end up taking.

The other question is, if I can only take one or the other, what opinions do you have as to which one I should take?

Any advice is greatly appreciated!

I think I may have put this in the wrong place :blink: Apologies to the Mods/Admin :(

[Cmdr Shepard]

I believe you can take both of them. They are two different options so you can buy both of them.

[Aqui]

I believe you can take both of them. They are two different options so you can buy both of them.

 

 

Thanks for the post.  I thought so, but because I've never seen a model with both options I wanted to check.

[Cmdr Shepard]

I believe you can take both of them. They are two different options so you can buy both of them.

Thanks for the post. I thought so, but because I've never seen a model with both options I wanted to check.

No problem. That's why we are member of thise community: we share knowledge and solve doubts each others....

Any you have an good looking profile pic... did you create the "digital art" pic? If you don't mind a little off topic question ;)

[Aqui]

I believe you can take both of them. They are two different options so you can buy both of them.

Thanks for the post. I thought so, but because I've never seen a model with both options I wanted to check.

No problem. That's why we are member of thise community: we share knowledge and solve doubts each others....

Any you have an good looking profile pic... did you create the "digital art" pic? If you don't mind a little off topic question

Unfortunately not! :lol: If I had that kind of skill, I'd be working for myself and not in a store :lol:

I found it on a t-shirt site that caters to fans of various films, tv programmes etc. Love Firefly, and Kaylee is a favourite character of mine ^_^

[Iron Father Ferrum]

As an Ironclad officianado, allow me to clarify: yes, you can take assault launchers AND HKMs on the same model.  Whether you should take the HKMs, on the other hand, depends entirely on how you want to employ the big guy.  If you're keeping the melta and want to use to pop armor when he comes down in a drop pod, then for sure take the missiles -- he'll get good use out of them then.  If you're going heavy on the flamers to barbeque some infantry when he comes down in a drop pod -- say, the guys manning a quad gun -- then they're not worth it and you should save yourself the points.

 

As for the assault launchers, take them.  Always.  The offensive grenade part is nice, but not in and of itself worth the points.  The defense grenades part, though, is awesome, because it cuts down the number of power fist/chainfist/thunder hammer/smash attacks you'll have to deal with if charged.  The really awesome part of defensive grenades though is that they give the possessing unit Stealth against units that shoot at them from within 8".  A lot of people missed that part reading the 6th Ed rulebook, but it's there, I promise.  And since you're drop podding him, you'll start off close enough to the enemy that most of the shooting you'll take is going to be around the 8" mark.

 

Oh, did I say he needs a pod to be effective?  Just checking.

[Aqui]

As an Ironclad officianado, allow me to clarify: yes, you can take assault launchers AND HKMs on the same model. Whether you should take the HKMs, on the other hand, depends entirely on how you want to employ the big guy. If you're keeping the melta and want to use to pop armor when he comes down in a drop pod, then for sure take the missiles -- he'll get good use out of them then. If you're going heavy on the flamers to barbeque some infantry when he comes down in a drop pod -- say, the guys manning a quad gun -- then they're not worth it and you should save yourself the points.

As for the assault launchers, take them. Always. The offensive grenade part is nice, but not in and of itself worth the points. The defense grenades part, though, is awesome, because it cuts down the number of power fist/chainfist/thunder hammer/smash attacks you'll have to deal with if charged. The really awesome part of defensive grenades though is that they give the possessing unit Stealth against units that shoot at them from within 8". A lot of people missed that part reading the 6th Ed rulebook, but it's there, I promise. And since you're drop podding him, you'll start off close enough to the enemy that most of the shooting you'll take is going to be around the 8" mark.

Oh, did I say he needs a pod to be effective? Just checking.

DEF, just the very Frater to ask To clarify what I want (and not necessarily how I end up) to use him as. I'm a fluffy player, whilst I'd love to win games, I prefer a fluffy list even if it means that I lose more than I win. My Steel Wings are IH sucessors (as you may know ) and the three Dreads they have are:

Original Chapter Master (Ven Dread with Assault Cannon and Power fist...although I have my eye on a FW Contemptor for him now )

Former Assault Sergeant Ironclad Dreadnought

Former Devastator Sergeant "Rifleman Dread" (another Ven Dread with Auto cannons from that Defence line kit thing when I get them)

I don't have the "Dev" Dread yet (am planning that for a few months time), and the IronClad is going to be the "Assault" Dread. He'll have the Seismic Hammer and the DCCW. I figured on leaving him on the "Default" setting (i.e. Melta and Storm bolter) with the exception of the aforementioned Hunter killer/Ironclad assault missiles. I'm not keen on drop pods (the actual model than the concept if I'm honest), but I realise that making a Dread slog it along to the enemy is stupid, so eventually I'll get one. Judging from what you're saying if I've got it right, he could serve in an "asssault" function to smack tanks etc by podding in as close as possible, and use "Defence" grenades to keep enemy units' attacks/weaken attacks at bay if charged?

tl:dr

I want my dreads to act as similar as possible to how the Marine inside would have acted before being interred, the "Assault" dread being the one I'm having difficulty with. Any insights, ideas etc are greatly appreciated

[Giga]

It's legal to take both. But don't. You don't want to sink too many points into the ironclad. Just get the heavy flamer so you get a flamer and a meltagun, and you're golden. 

 

Hopefully, soon we'll be getting stormravens in vanilla lists, so that ironclad dread might even get a chance to assault something. ;]

[Aqui]

It's legal to take both. But don't. You don't want to sink too many points into the ironclad. Just get the heavy flamer so you get a flamer and a meltagun, and you're golden. 

 

Hopefully, soon we'll be getting stormravens in vanilla lists, so that ironclad dread might even get a chance to assault something. ;]

 

 

I may just consider not taking either and take the flamer, but as I haven't played a game yet since coming back to the hobby, I want a good general purpose list, but one that remains true to the fluff I have for my DIY.

 

I'll have to have a think about it,  read a few battle reports and see ^_^

[Giga]

Well, you can't really have a "general purpose" ironclad. It's an assault specialist walker with a little added shooting. It's supposed to get up close and personal fast. A couple krak missiles really won't change the way you use it. 

 

The assault launchers don't really matter much because ironclads are immune to krak grenades anyway, so the things you have to worry about are powerfists and overwatch, both of which WILL get used against your ironclad since the small number of attacks prevents you from killing the powerfist before it swings unless you're assaulting a heavily depleted squad. 

[Aqui]

Well, you can't really have a "general purpose" ironclad. It's an assault specialist walker with a little added shooting. It's supposed to get up close and personal fast. A couple krak missiles really won't change the way you use it. 

 

The assault launchers don't really matter much because ironclads are immune to krak grenades anyway, so the things you have to worry about are powerfists and overwatch, both of which WILL get used against your ironclad since the small number of attacks prevents you from killing the powerfist before it swings unless you're assaulting a heavily depleted squad. 

 

 

I see ^_^  I had meant that I wanted the army list the Dread(s) are going to be part of, to be "general purpose".  Sorry.  Thanks for the advice ^_^

[Iron Father Ferrum]

This is a point where Giga and I disagree.  For me, the AV13 and the defensive grenades from the assault launchers are what makes an Ironclad worth taking in 6th Ed.  He states rightly that they're immune to krak grenades, which is a powerful defense for a close combat walker.  But the defensive grenades grant you cover against half-range meltaguns, which is the single greatest ranged threat they face.  When using mine, if I don't have a defense line that needs to be cleansed by fire, then I'll pod my Ironclad into terrain as close as possible to enemy units.  That way, you can get your cover save bumped up some which in turn increases the chance you'll survive to, say, assault a tank or charge into an infantry unit somewhere.

 

More than most other units in the game, Ironclads really rely on good placement to survive until they get into close combat, at which point they're reasonably survivable on their own.

[Aqui]

This is a point where Giga and I disagree.  For me, the AV13 and the defensive grenades from the assault launchers are what makes an Ironclad worth taking in 6th Ed.  He states rightly that they're immune to krak grenades, which is a powerful defense for a close combat walker.  But the defensive grenades grant you cover against half-range meltaguns, which is the single greatest ranged threat they face.  When using mine, if I don't have a defense line that needs to be cleansed by fire, then I'll pod my Ironclad into terrain as close as possible to enemy units.  That way, you can get your cover save bumped up some which in turn increases the chance you'll survive to, say, assault a tank or charge into an infantry unit somewhere.

 

More than most other units in the game, Ironclads really rely on good placement to survive until they get into close combat, at which point they're reasonably survivable on their own.

 

 

I've just got the 6th ed rule book out to see what it says about the defensive grenades you mention, but unless I'm being stupid (which will probably be right as I'm not firing on all cylinders today...), they're on page 61 (Assault) and 62 (Defensive) yes?

 

I suppose I should get the rest of my revised army list hammered out and see where "Bayadom" fits in it and make a decision from that.

 

Thanks to everyone who's posted today.  It's been a big help ^_^

[Iron Father Ferrum]

I don't know about the page numbers, just that it's a little-known fact that Defensive Grenades grant Stealth against shooters within 8".  You'd be surprised how many people give me a blank look when I tell them that.

[Aqui]

I don't know about the page numbers, just that it's a little-known fact that Defensive Grenades grant Stealth against shooters within 8". You'd be surprised how many people give me a blank look when I tell them that.

Then it is page 62. Assuming I can get myself sorted out by Thursday/Friday, I'll be playing my first match with my DIY against one of the local GW staff. Will have to see what comes about should I get a chance to use them ^_^

Thanks for the heads up

[Giga]

Meh, while frag assault launchers aren't a bad upgrade, they just make a mediocre assault unit even less cost-effective. An ironclad with heavy flamer, meltagun & frag assault launchers is 160 pts. That's just way too many points for a model with only 4 WS4 attacks on charge and extremely short-range shooting.

 

If and when we get access to stormravens, ironclads will probably become rather scary, but until then, I wouldn't spend too many points on them. 

[Aqui]

Meh, while frag assault launchers aren't a bad upgrade, they just make a mediocre assault unit even less cost-effective. An ironclad with heavy flamer, meltagun & frag assault launchers is 160 pts. That's just way too many points for a model with only 4 WS4 attacks on charge and extremely short-range shooting.

 

If and when we get access to stormravens, ironclads will probably become rather scary, but until then, I wouldn't spend too many points on them.

I don't know much about the Storm Raven - having had a look, I take it you mean by using it to move a Dread across to the enemy's line? 200pts seems a little steep to do something that a drop pod could for 35pts, although it isn't just a transport. Mind you £50 is a bit steep :blink: I'd have to think about that...:lol:

[Giga]

Why Stormraven is awesome and why it'll be a perfect fit for vanilla armies:

 

- it's arguably the best flier in the game, as it can reliably murder other fliers (and pretty much anything else) which is huge

 

- it's an assault vehicle, so stuff can disembark out of it and assault right away

 

- it can also carry infantry, so smile as you unload 5 th/ss termies, an ironclad dread, and a killy HQ right where you want them OR drop a tactical squad + a dread to support them on whichever objective on the table you want

 

- it provides massive target saturation, so if you have a stormtalon escorting it, you're automatically making the otherwise crappy stormtalon much MUCH more survivable

 

- it's really cheap pointswise for what it does

 

- it's a bloody awesome model

 

 

 

 

Against a proper army/player, your droppoded ironclad is going to shoot at a cheap transport or kill a couple infantry models, and then be shot to death in the opponent's turn, meaning that you've wasted 180+ points, lost two kill points, and possibly gained or lost first blood. 

[Aqui]

Why Stormraven is awesome and why it'll be a perfect fit for vanilla armies:

 

- it's arguably the best flier in the game, as it can reliably murder other fliers (and pretty much anything else) which is huge

 

- it's an assault vehicle, so stuff can disembark out of it and assault right away

 

- it can also carry infantry, so smile as you unload 5 th/ss termies, an ironclad dread, and a killy HQ right where you want them OR drop a tactical squad + a dread to support them on whichever objective on the table you want

 

- it provides massive target saturation, so if you have a stormtalon escorting it, you're automatically making the otherwise crappy stormtalon much MUCH more survivable

 

- it's really cheap pointswise for what it does

 

- it's a bloody awesome model

 

 

 

 

Against a proper army/player, your droppoded ironclad is going to shoot at a cheap transport or kill a couple infantry models, and then be shot to death in the opponent's turn, meaning that you've wasted 180+ points, lost two kill points, and possibly gained or lost first blood. 

 

 

Well, when you put it like that :lol:

 

Perhaps I should get one once the rest of my army has gotten bigger.  Ideally, I'd like to get around 2.5-4k in the long term. 

[Explorer1]

Not sure stormravens will help ironclads. They will be better I suppose, but since 6th banned assaulting from reserve, I've stopped running furioso dreads in stormravens. Just seems like too many points for an (at best ) 3rd turn assault.

[Giga]

Well, when you put it like that

Perhaps I should get one once the rest of my army has gotten bigger. Ideally, I'd like to get around 2.5-4k in the long term.

Just look at this baby: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-8X_-qpjMwVI/Tc2OZBYTdhI/AAAAAAAAAD4/5TwFsElLaxg/s1600/Grey+Knight+Stormraven+finished+%25284%2529.JPG

It's a frickin flying land raider! How can you not want to have one? :D

[Axagoras]

Use Lucius pattern drop pods :D

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Use Lucius pattern drop pods

I'd love to, but FW still isn't accepted everywhere.

[UltraTacSgt]

So I, like the OP, caved and bought an Ironclad. The price was too good and the model looks too awesome to pass up.

 

My new gaming circle allows reasonable FW units, so I am going to put that sucker into a Lucius pod and let 'er rip. 

 

I am leaning towards to Seismic Hammer/Melta w/ DCCW/HF because the +2 to the damage chart gives it a 50% chance to destroy w/ a pen. That said, the chainfist giving near-guaranteed pens is attractive as well. Big question I have, does anyone know for sure if you can or cannot put your melta gun from the seismic hammer arm onto the chainfist? The codex says nothing about losing, replacing, or keeping the melta; but the GW store/site shows pics of the chainfist w/ the underslung melta gun.

 

Anyone know for sure?

[Axagoras]

Lol if FW isnt allowed then they are not true 40k players.