Dark Angels, snubbed on fliers?

[Xyon]

So "death from the skies" is now available on the GW website, and one of the things they felt they needed to talk about in the product description was how the Storm Raven is now available for codex space marines, and codex black templars,  but not for dark angels aparantly?    I guess space wolves get snubbed too, so we're not completely alone, and at least all space marine armies are not the same, but I can't help feeling snubbed by GW in regards to access for anti-flier fliers,  at least the rest of our codex is really good and relavent, unless we find out that DA was 'another' experiment that they decided to scrap when its time to release the 6th ed SM codex.

[company veteran]

umm..you have two fliers..

 

you may not be super happy with them but you havent been 'snubbed'

 

oh and nephilims are rubbish? tell that to my stormravens burning wreckage.. lascannons still hurt.. a lot.

[shortysl]

So we don't get the Stormraven. I have a Grey Knights army and the Raven isn't all that. I actually prefer the Nephillim. You want codex flyers? You're collecting the wrong chapter.

[Finn]

As a Dark Angel, I don't need to scream "I RULE!" each time my flyer enters the battlefield. However, I'd like a flyer which is able to do anything against scary flyers like the Heldrake OR one with a price I don't find insulting.

[coteaz40001]

So we don't get the Stormraven. I have a Grey Knights army and the Raven isn't all that. I actually prefer the Nephillim. You want codex flyers? You're collecting the wrong chapter.

The Grey Knight Stormraven isn't even close to comparible to the Blood Angel version. Blood strike missiles are what make the darn thing worth taking. Two strength 8 AP 1 missiles, a twin-linked multi-melta, and a twin-linked assault cannon equals a dead flyer. Every time. The real losers here are not the Dark Angels, though. The Wolves have been purposely left out of the rules for EVERY space marine flyer.

[Skalver]

It's almost as if they want armies to have weaknesses as well as strengths.

[WatchCaptainAzrael]

The Wolves have been purposely left out of the rules for EVERY space marine flyer.

Like Russ inteded.

 

Hah!

[Skalver]

 

The Wolves have been purposely left out of the rules for EVERY space marine flyer.

Like Russ inteded.

 

Hah!

 

Hmm, so tempted to make a Wolf Lord named Hannibal just so I can annoy my opponents by having all the Space Wolves constantly say "I ain't gettin' on no goddamn plane Hannibal".

[SinisterZ]

umm..you have two fliers..

 

you may not be super happy with them but you havent been 'snubbed'

 

oh and nephilims are rubbish? tell that to my stormravens burning wreckage.. lascannons still hurt.. a lot.

 

I just happen to blow up a grey knight stormraven in my last game with the Nephilim. Pen hit and rolled a 6 on the damage table. We had a good time :D

[Syphid]

umm..you have two fliers..

you may not be super happy with them but you havent been 'snubbed'

oh and nephilims are rubbish? tell that to my stormravens burning wreckage.. lascannons still hurt.. a lot.

I just happen to blow up a grey knight stormraven in my last game with the Nephilim. Pen hit and rolled a 6 on the damage table. We had a good time

With the Lascannon or did you hit reaar armour with the Avenger?

[Finn]

It's almost as if they want armies to have weaknesses as well as strengths.

I don't mind that. Actually, giving armies strenghts and weaknesses is a good thing. I play against many CSM players and I frequently have to deal with 3 baleflamer heldrakes during a match and believe me, it's not fun. Before the FAQ gave them 360 degree arc of fire, I could live with them, as I could always avoid the template by moving outside the dragon's line of fire. Now, it's just brutal - a flyer with AV 12 right where it needs it, a 5+ save against anything, it will not die and ridiculous baleflamer and vector strike (all for 170 ponts) makes this unit a real ass. It takes no skill to use, because you can just fly around and vector strike/fry a number of points almost equal to the cost of the model each turn. With the baleflamer you cannot miss and wound on 2s almost anything on the table, being almost invulnerable to any threat.

 

I know, I can play a DW list and laugh at baleflamer's AP3. But TEQ, AV12 flyers, some not-so-frequently-used vehicles and MCs are the only things the damn dragon cannot kill in an instant. It's a shame that the Nephilim costs more ponts and needs a hail mary to neutralize the threat (I know, weapon destroyed is a perfecty acceptable result).

 

Give the AMB rending and I will gladly take NJF. Even if it still would be a little overpriced.

[Syphid]

I'd gladly exchange the Nephilim for a Storm Raven.  Flying Assault Transport for Deathwing, or an AV 12 gunship with Hurricane Bolters transporting Banner of Devastation beats out the Ravenwing pea shooter any day.  Even if they knocked the Nephilim down 60 points it still wouldn't be as useful as a Storm Raven.

[Bryan Blaire]

The Wolves don't fly (although apparently they do skim ;) ), just like they don't teleport, they go into battle with their feet on solid ground (unless they are on a bike, speeder or giant wolf or wearing a jump pack). Them not having flyers is perfectly fluffy (kinda). Now, they should have some better anti-flyer options because of this (in over 10k years of war, you'd think that someone would have attacked them with flyers and they would have learned to counter them).

 

I don't mind us not getting the Storm Raven (although some kind of flying transport might have been nice), I actually like our flyers, they are just a little underpowered for the cost. If the new "Bestiary" entries in this flyer supplement really do alter the points costs and possibly even armor values and weapons options for some of the armies listed, it may be very interesting seeing the arguments in the coming days after the books start being delivered...

[SinisterZ]

umm..you have two fliers..

you may not be super happy with them but you havent been 'snubbed'

oh and nephilims are rubbish? tell that to my stormravens burning wreckage.. lascannons still hurt.. a lot.

I just happen to blow up a grey knight stormraven in my last game with the Nephilim. Pen hit and rolled a 6 on the damage table. We had a good time

With the Lascannon or did you hit reaar armour with the Avenger?

Lascannon.

[HJL]

well we have a flyer, but heres the part that pisses me off

 

the space marine flyer is $45. Ours which is the same exact kit with some extra wings is $75. They are both about the same size, they both look like a sperm with wings and an engine... how come ours is almost twice as much?

[Finn]

well we have a flyer, but heres the part that pisses me off

 

the space marine flyer is $45. Ours which is the same exact kit with some extra wings is $75. They are both about the same size, they both look like a sperm with wings and an engine... how come ours is almost twice as much?

It's a relic. Antiques are pricy :)

[John_f]

 

It's almost as if they want armies to have weaknesses as well as strengths.

I don't mind that. Actually, giving armies strenghts and weaknesses is a good thing. I play against many CSM players and I frequently have to deal with 3 baleflamer heldrakes during a match and believe me, it's not fun. Before the FAQ gave them 360 degree arc of fire, I could live with them, as I could always avoid the template by moving outside the dragon's line of fire. Now, it's just brutal - a flyer with AV 12 right where it needs it, a 5+ save against anything, it will not die and ridiculous baleflamer and vector strike (all for 170 ponts) makes this unit a real ass. It takes no skill to use, because you can just fly around and vector strike/fry a number of points almost equal to the cost of the model each turn. With the baleflamer you cannot miss and wound on 2s almost anything on the table, being almost invulnerable to any threat.

 

I know, I can play a DW list and laugh at baleflamer's AP3. But TEQ, AV12 flyers, some not-so-frequently-used vehicles and MCs are the only things the damn dragon cannot kill in an instant. It's a shame that the Nephilim costs more ponts and needs a hail mary to neutralize the threat (I know, weapon destroyed is a perfecty acceptable result).

 

Give the AMB rending and I will gladly take NJF. Even if it still would be a little overpriced.

He was being ironic..

[Finn]

 

 

It's almost as if they want armies to have weaknesses as well as strengths.

I don't mind that. Actually, giving armies strenghts and weaknesses is a good thing. I play against many CSM players and I frequently have to deal with 3 baleflamer heldrakes during a match and believe me, it's not fun. Before the FAQ gave them 360 degree arc of fire, I could live with them, as I could always avoid the template by moving outside the dragon's line of fire. Now, it's just brutal - a flyer with AV 12 right where it needs it, a 5+ save against anything, it will not die and ridiculous baleflamer and vector strike (all for 170 ponts) makes this unit a real ass. It takes no skill to use, because you can just fly around and vector strike/fry a number of points almost equal to the cost of the model each turn. With the baleflamer you cannot miss and wound on 2s almost anything on the table, being almost invulnerable to any threat.

 

I know, I can play a DW list and laugh at baleflamer's AP3. But TEQ, AV12 flyers, some not-so-frequently-used vehicles and MCs are the only things the damn dragon cannot kill in an instant. It's a shame that the Nephilim costs more ponts and needs a hail mary to neutralize the threat (I know, weapon destroyed is a perfecty acceptable result).

 

Give the AMB rending and I will gladly take NJF. Even if it still would be a little overpriced.

He was being ironic..

I guess so, but it still doesn't change my point :)

[tomsev]

the reason the dark angels flier is almost double the price is because the box lets you choose between 2 fliers where as with the SM one, well you dont have a choice you only get one...

[Brom MKIV]

I agree on the intent by gw to limit each dex and honestly I support it. I believe gw limited our flyers to balance the sweet rules we received everywhere else in the codex while still giving us a flyer that represents their concept of the background.

If we had competitive flyers we would be top tier with no brainer choices. hate facing dragons but I don't mind having inherent weaknesses. Conversely chaos space marines have arguably the best flyer (vendetta was made for 5th) but chaos lacks in other areas like transports where we are spoiled as far as marines go. IMO both dex's are excellent from every standpoint short of complete power gaming. For players that compete in those environments though I can see your frustration. But I guess that's why IG allies exist.

[Brother dean]

The Wolves don't fly (although apparently they do skim ), just like they don't teleport, they go into battle with their feet on solid ground (unless they are on a bike, speeder or giant wolf or wearing a jump pack). Them not having flyers is perfectly fluffy (kinda). Now, they should have some better anti-flyer options because of this (in over 10k years of war, you'd think that someone would have attacked them with flyers and they would have learned to counter them).

I don't mind us not getting the Storm Raven (although some kind of flying transport might have been nice), I actually like our flyers, they are just a little underpowered for the cost. If the new "Bestiary" entries in this flyer supplement really do alter the points costs and possibly even armor values and weapons options for some of the armies listed, it may be very interesting seeing the arguments in the coming days after the books start being delivered...

Actually, they do fly... it's just the teleport thing...

Fliers would fall under the ageis of the scouts tho.... Go read Battle of the Fang, The scout that saves the day commands a fast destroyer while he mentions that his brothers prefer heavier, brutal, ships... I expect the wolves to get a monster when and if they get anything else beyond the Damocles and Storm Eagle.

[Bryan Blaire]

I was making a joke of it, repeating the line in the Wolf Codex and pointed out all the units that actually show the whole "on their feet" thing really isn't true.

 

I don't think a star ship like a destroyer really counts as a flyer though, I would think the heaviest flyer craft that could really be represented on a game board would be a Thunderhawk. Anything else is going to have to be less than that to really be playable in a standard game of 40K, even a Tunderhawk or Stormbird would need to be reserved for Apocalypse type games.

[John_f]

I agree on the intent by gw to limit each dex and honestly I support it. I believe gw limited our flyers to balance the sweet rules we received everywhere else in the codex while still giving us a flyer that represents their concept of the background.

If we had competitive flyers we would be top tier with no brainer choices. hate facing dragons but I don't mind having inherent weaknesses. Conversely chaos space marines have arguably the best flyer (vendetta was made for 5th) but chaos lacks in other areas like transports where we are spoiled as far as marines go. IMO both dex's are excellent from every standpoint short of complete power gaming. For players that compete in those environments though I can see your frustration. But I guess that's why IG allies exist.

This is an excellent point. Most likely GW will move away from the 5:th edition over the top codexes and make all the 6th edition more in line with eachother. Even thou the CSM and the DA codex are different they are still similar and balanced against each other.

[Brother dean]

I wasnt trying to say anything Bryan...  My Wolfbrother is always saying that people get confused thinking that the one is the same as the other.  I dont see the Emperors executioners leaving a weapon in the shed because they dont like it, especially if it is effective.

 

 

 

 

I am more thinking a Storm Talon/Storm Raven/Dark talon mash up.  A no passenger, 12/12/12 heavy weapon,  Melta carrier.

[Upstartes]

You know what offends me? The RAVENwing can't use a Storm RAVEN. At least the Raven Guard can, I guess.

 

The one thing a Grey Knights Storm Raven has going for it is the psycannon bolts on a twin-linked assault cannon. I've put a lot of hurt on enemy flyers with that in my casual-play Inquisition list.

 

I've been looking at my Storm Raven since the new codex came out, wondering how hard it would be to modify it into a Storm Eagle even though it's assembled already. It probably wouldn't turn out all that great, but might be passable. I think I'm going to by a Nephilim regardless. The model looks really cool, and I think that it can be an effective piece of the army (though not amazing on its own).

 

But $75? Yeah, that's a rip-off. If I hadn't just made some money off selling old stuff, I probably wouldn't get it. Maybe I can e-bay the Dark Talon bits for a few bucks.