What makes you so special?

[Ravenfeld]

Hey everyone,

 

I'm a Vanilla Marine / Space Wolf kinda guy and have been deeply entrenched in those armies, but I'm not here for me. A friend of mine is looking to munge together her old blood angels into a cohesive fighting force without needing to invest more money. But I'm getting ahead of myself. What I need for you specialists in blood, is knowledge & experience. What units are competitive & why? What characters are best, what compositions work well and what doesn't?

 

Don't fret too much about what she owns, this is strictly information gathering to help me help her back into the game. The reason I want competitive is because I don't want her to get stomped before she finds her footing, and solid lists can help mitigate her lack of experience. Once the ball gets rolling i'll ask more specific questions, but for now.... discuss!

 

Thank you,

Raven

[SamaNagol]

TBH depending on what she owns you could probably run it better using another codex.

 

Unless she owns a bunch of Assault Marines with JPs

[Ravenfeld]

She owns all Blood Angel models, so I think this is the right place to be!

 

She has Death Company, Dreads, Sanguinary Guard, a few SC's, etc. So hit me with what makes your Dex good, and we'll go from there!

 

Thank you,

Raven.

[SamaNagol]

Mephiston

 

Drop Pod with 8 Death Company with a couple Axes

 

Baals with Assault Cannon and Heavy Bolters

 

Attack Bikes with Multi Meltas

 

Corbulo

 

Jump Pack Assault Marines

 

Stormraven

 

Should do alright with those

[Remmy]

Death company with bolters are very strong in general, avoid jump packs if you want them to be competitive.

 

Sanguinary guard are fun, but completely not competitive.

 

AV 13 dreads have a few uses. All av13 variants are great for tying up large blobs of fearless troops/elites that can't glance av13 armor (units like deathwing knights after they pop their one use round of str 10 attacks). The blood talon variants are only useful if you get them into combat with both arms attached and against armor value 3 or higher targets, usually the only reliable delivery system is a storm raven. The frag cannon + heavy flamer variant is currently the most versatile at the moment in my opinion, drop pod delivery is pretty nice with them. Libby dreads are all but worthless in competitive environments.

 

Our strongest units are generally Mephiston, Librarians with divination, Storm ravens, Death company, Mass jump pack troops (30-50 in a 2k list) supported with invuln fields from the DA codex and fnp bubbles. Attack bikes are very nice for their points but I usually opt for a storm raven if i have to decide between the two.

 

Oh yeah, and axe should be on all your libbies and sergeants as default.

[Morticon]

Frag dreadnoughts in pods are all kinds of amazing too :D

[SamaNagol]

Only if you take 2. The rule of 2! Baals. Vindicators. Frag Cannon Dreads.

[bushman101]

Honestly, a lot of our strength as BA players is in where our units fall into our codex.

Assault are Troops, DC Dreads are Troops, Furiosos are Elite, Vanguard are Fast, LandRaiders are Heavy.

 

Then, we have 'double duty' models. Chaplains and Reclusiarchs are the same model with different stats and occupy different force slots. Sang Preists exist in Honor Guards or seperate as a Elite choice.

 

We can do Armor lists, Troop heavy, JP heavy, Dreadnought lists, DC lists....you name it

 

The BA codex is very flexible, in a non-Vanilla kinda way.

[Ravenfeld]

Well what I know is that she loves Death Company, so lets start there. What are some mean DC builds, is Astoroth worth his salt?

[Venemox]

Astorath can be a mean bugger, there's no doubt there.  His real power seems to shine in the ability to take multiple DC squads.  They can't score, but can contest.  They can also get expensive, quickly.  However, bolter DC with a sprinkling of Power Axes does seem very capable.

 

 

Edit:  They are much better in 6th, now that Rage is absolutely a buff and you get your FNP roll vs. more wounds.

[Drunken Angel]

Some fun units

 

1/  7-10 Death company with bolters an infernus pistol and power fist are very good with a drop pod, great distraction and oh dear unit.

 

2/  Attack bikes are very good and play well to Stormravens.  The bikes open light or heavy armour easily and push the things your opponent does not want hurt to the back of the board.

 

3/  Stormravens will get more chances to send S8 AP1 missiles with POTMS into those vehicles waiting at the back while shooting the troops the bikes spilled mid board with hurricane bolters and assault cannons.

 

4/  Librarians will take sheild and ride in the raven ensuring it never has to jink ... or take divination and buff the bikes or confer 4++ invuns onto

 

5/   Death company (5) with jump packs and an infernus pistol great little enforcer unit to put in the raven or keep reserved to deepstrike

 

6/  Vindicators move 12 and fire 24 want to make someones eyes water leave the libby out with a RAS and cast divination on the demolisher cannon,  Facing drop pods? reserve the vindi and watch the stange expression crossing your opponents face.

[Chaplain Admetus]

The best part of the hobby (for me, anyway) is playing with things I enjoy, so if she loves death company:

 

Astorath. Because Death Company

 

Jump-Pack Death Company. Go with Asty. Outfit to taste, Drunken Angel's unit in the post above would probably work quite nicely.

 

Death Company Dreadnought (noticing a theme here?) Best run in either a pod or a raven to get it where it needs to go

 

Tactical Squad/Scout Squad/Assault Squad - Two of these, just to have some way of actually winning objective games.

 

Sanguinary Guard are apparently good if you use them well. If you want tactical advice on them, ask someone else because mine are consistently terrible, leading to the presumption that I can't use them properly. Expensive pointswise though, and you're already racking it up with the DC.

 

Baal predators are win on tank tracks, take one if you can. 

 

Having a scout around the forum will lead you to what sort of things people like - everyone likes different things though, and some units work better for some players than others.

[Remmy]

Remember guys he's asking for COMPETETIVE lists. I STRONGLY advise against jump pack DC if you are building for competetive games.

 

Here's a few specific units that I use against my best friend who has won a GT.

 

1. 5-6 th/ss terminators in a landraider(any variant) with corbulo.

 

2. 7-15 Bolter DC. 1-3 power axes mixed in (the power axe models keep their pistol for the extra attack). You can deploy them in just about any way and they will be effective. Pods, landraiders, footslogging, rhinos.

 

3. Bread and butter unit is 10 man RAS squad with 2 meltaguns, and an axe on sarge. Meltabombs if you have spare points at the end. People will say to bring plasma guns but I strongly disagree. You will only be rapid firing them within 12" of your target. And you can't charge after the rapid fire. They will likely be able to make up that 12" and charge you in their own turn.

 

4. 1-3 sanguinary priests with power axes, jump packs where needed.

 

5. Divination librarians with power axes. Shield of sanguinius is rarely better than taking the divination powers.

 

6. Storm raven with tl-lascannon, multimelta. Hurricane bolters if you have the 30 points.

 

7. Furioso dread with frag cannon + heavy flamer deployed in drop pod.

 

i'll edit with more suggestions later.

[Sviox]

The best part of the hobby (for me, anyway) is playing with things I enjoy, so if she loves death company:

 

Astorath. Because Death Company

 

Jump-Pack Death Company. Go with Asty. Outfit to taste, Drunken Angel's unit in the post above would probably work quite nicely.

 

Death Company Dreadnought (noticing a theme here?) Best run in either a pod or a raven to get it where it needs to go

 

Tactical Squad/Scout Squad/Assault Squad - Two of these, just to have some way of actually winning objective games.

 

Sanguinary Guard are apparently good if you use them well. If you want tactical advice on them, ask someone else because mine are consistently terrible, leading to the presumption that I can't use them properly. Expensive pointswise though, and you're already racking it up with the DC.

 

Baal predators are win on tank tracks, take one if you can. 

 

Having a scout around the forum will lead you to what sort of things people like - everyone likes different things though, and some units work better for some players than others.

 

Sanguinary Guard are good, but basically work in exactly the opposite kind of build from Death Company. You can roughly divide competitive BA lists into two categories (in my opinion at least):

1. Infantry based ('horde'), with lots of tactical and/or assault squads, as well as cheap vehicles for transport/cover. The trick with these builds is to buff your units with units like sanguinary priests, chapter banners etc. SG works well as the hammer in this kind of lists (and Vanguard Veterans as a diversion). Also, for HQ, bring something with a buff the the core units, such as Dante or Corbulo.

2. Elitist, with specialized units that work on their own accord. The core of this kind of lists is the DC. In addition, these lists have dreadnoughts, terminators, bikes and scouts. Consider couple of tactical squads purely for fire support and objective grabbing. Most important thing thing with this kind of lists is to consider the delivery of the units to where they are needed (using land raiders, storm ravens and drop pods creatively). Great HQs here include Astorath and Mephiston.

[Ravenfeld]

So then, to get more specific, what would you need to do to make Sang Guard competitive? How would you use them and what would you put on them? Is there a particular HQ that shines with them?

 

Thanks so far for the insight everyone, its all golden.

Raven

[Drunken Angel]

So then, to get more specific, what would you need to do to make Sang Guard competitive? How would you use them and what would you put on them? Is there a particular HQ that shines with them?

 

Thanks so far for the insight everyone, its all golden.

Raven

If you take more than one unit of Sang guard you pretty much are considering Dante as an HQ.  He is decent but you can use him in a Death company jump pack list as well.  Death Company with tactical precision and hit and run are good.  Sang guard need careful use just dont overmatch them or they and Dante are gone very easily, any Sgt with a fist can double Dante out.

Effective SG load out is

Banner

1-2 axes

2 Infernus pistols

1 powerfist

Attach a preist either bare or with a power weapon.  I like to put an axe and a melta bomb on the priest as back up to the fist.

[Remmy]

My personal opinion is that sanguinary guard and dante are in no way competetive picks. I love them but they don't fit well in the current ruleset as strong units.

 

That being said I'm sure there are setups that will help you get the most out of the potential that they do have. Drunken Angels loadout looks to be pretty ideal to me.

 

The current sickest tournament lists involve mass infantry and mobile shooting. For instance 2k eldar walker spam and 2k dark eldar venom spam will produce around 100-140 wounds per turn.

 

Basic math with no feel no pain means that they will delete up to 40 marines a turn on average. That is a very sobering number. While you will rarely play against lists that have such power, it's something to keep in mind when you think about having to deal with lists at least partially composed of the units capable of putting out such punishment at respectable range.

 

So against infantry the strongest bet is producing the highest number of hits/wounds per turn. High powered small elite units rarely out perform mass jump troops even in circumstances you would expect them to out perform a standard assault squad.