Bolt Pistols or Boltguns in the Death Company?

[Morticon]

 

 

I don't think the BP+CCW / Bolter compromise adds a lot of value to that unit.

 

A podded DC in my experience is handled in two ways, it's either avoided or counter charged. Having the bolters help in both situations and provide you with a better torrent of fire on arrival. The extra attack only helps in one case and will leave you with less options on how to act once you have deployed. 

 

 

 

 

Can you explain why you feel that way?

 

If a podded DC is avoided, i think you've either scattered poorly, or placed poorly.  But considering that you can move 6"off the drop, run (if need be) and then move and charge 2d6" in subsequent turns I dont see much of anything avoiding you, to be honest.

 

I think its more likely that you will be shot and counter-charged.  In the latter case you want the extra attacks.  That being said, the problem with this type of analysis is that its incredibly vacuum based.

 

You make an argument for 10 DC making the most of their bolter attacks on the drop, and while that sounds great in theory, there is something off kilter about using the DC to deliver bolter shots.  I get what is meant by more options available to them after the drop, but im not  convinced that focusing on the shooty aspect of the DC is where it's at.

 

All in all though, i think the numbers are so small (special weapon debate not-withstanding) that the bolter/BP debate is maybe splitting hairs to a degree. Full bolters nets you .5 of a MEQ wound more in shooting while 5/5 nets you .38 "(which also doesnt take into consideration attacks in combat and dwindling damage with wounds- i think that is almost too small to warrant unequivocal decisions either way (at least for me).  

[knife&fork]

 

 

 

I don't think the BP+CCW / Bolter compromise adds a lot of value to that unit.

 

A podded DC in my experience is handled in two ways, it's either avoided or counter charged. Having the bolters help in both situations and provide you with a better torrent of fire on arrival. The extra attack only helps in one case and will leave you with less options on how to act once you have deployed. 

 

 

 

 

Can you explain why you feel that way?

 

If a podded DC is avoided, i think you've either scattered poorly, or placed poorly.  But considering that you can move 6"off the drop, run (if need be) and then move and charge 2d6" in subsequent turns I dont see much of anything avoiding you, to be honest.

 

I think its more likely that you will be shot and counter-charged.  In the latter case you want the extra attacks.  That being said, the problem with this type of analysis is that its incredibly vacuum based.

 

You make an argument for 10 DC making the most of their bolter attacks on the drop, and while that sounds great in theory, there is something off kilter about using the DC to deliver bolter shots.  I get what is meant by more options available to them after the drop, but im not  convinced that focusing on the shooty aspect of the DC is where it's at.

 

All in all though, i think the numbers are so small (special weapon debate not-withstanding) that the bolter/BP debate is maybe splitting hairs to a degree. Full bolters nets you .5 of a MEQ wound more in shooting while 5/5 nets you .38 "(which also doesnt take into consideration attacks in combat and dwindling damage with wounds- i think that is almost too small to warrant unequivocal decisions either way (at least for me).  

 

A DC could be avoided for any number of reasons. Having played with a lot of pods there are two major things (ignoring unlucky scatter and super mobile lists) that will happen. 

 

1. There are limited number of places where you want the DC to begin with. While versatile they are not effective against all kinds of targets.

2.  The opponent, unless inexperienced, will make it as difficult as possible for you to find a spot where you can do damage on the drop, not be too exposed to counter measures and then be in reach of something important on the the following turns.

 

I use the DC as a disruptive unit. If a disruptive unit is to be effective it must pose a real threat in as many situations as possible. Making the DC more shooting focused is making them stronger in that role by making them more difficult to ignore. Boltpistols are only 12" after all.

[Zynk Kaladin]

I use the DC as a disruptive unit. If a disruptive unit is to be effective it must pose a real threat in as many situations as possible. Making the DC more shooting focused is making them stronger in that role by making them more difficult to ignore. Boltpistols are only 12" after all.

I also use DC as a disruptive unit and agree that our boys in black could be avoided. However, I just don't see how having 5 extra bolter shots makes them any more of a threat to be dealt with. If I were your opponent, 5 bolter shots doesn't scare me if your DC truly need to be ignored. Sure, you can reach out and touch someone slightly better, but does it really matter? Either way, if you plop the DC in an opportune spot eventually your opponent will have to deal with them in some way.

What if your opponent doesn't ignore your DC or something else in your army puts them in a good spot? BA are optimists after all... have a little faith . I'd rather have a DC loadout for smacking heads as much as possible where it counts and bolt pistols slightly favors this approach.

In a way I'm also being nit-picky. TBH 5 extra CC attacks due to pistols doesn't make a HUGE difference, but I do enjoy slowing down my DC's diminishing combat potential due to casualties. To each their own, I suppose!

[knife&fork]

 

I use the DC as a disruptive unit. If a disruptive unit is to be effective it must pose a real threat in as many situations as possible. Making the DC more shooting focused is making them stronger in that role by making them more difficult to ignore. Boltpistols are only 12" after all.

 

I also use DC as a disruptive unit and agree that our boys in black could be avoided.  However, I just don't see how having 5 extra bolter shots makes them any more of a threat to be dealt with.  If I were your opponent, 5 bolter shots doesn't scare me if your DC truly need to be ignored.  Sure, you can reach out and touch someone slightly better, but does it really matter?  

 

Yes, I think it does :D

It's a threshold as much as anything, 20 (or 18 if you take a pistol) shots is where things start to happen in my experience. I don't want to go below that if it can be avoided, no margin of error. It's the same thing really with the attacks on CC kitted DC. The difference in number of attacks isn't huge but it's usually the difference between getting stuck and winning when taking on larger units like full sized MEQ or small TEQ units. Doing percentage mathhammer can be a bit misleading since we can never score partial hits or wounds nor partially fail saves.    

 

The extra reach on the bolters have saved my bacon several times late game when a scoring unit needs to be finished off.