Effective builds vs. Space Wolves

[Lord Sondar]

Greatings Brothers.

 

I've had a couple of game against my friends Space Wolves and I'm struggling to come up with any effective counters to his list.

 

HQ

Rune Priest

 

Troops

10 Grey Hunters, 2 plasma guns

10 Grey Hunters, 2 plasma guns

10 Grey Hunters, 2 plasma guns

 

Heavy Support

6 Long Fangs, 5 missile launchers

6 Long Fangs, 4 missile launchers

5 Long Fangs, 5 heavy bolters

 

We played purge the alien tonight at 1000 points. I managed to hold out until turn 4 before I was tabled.  I am by no means a great player, any tips will be greatly appreciated. 

 

My list was

 

HQ

Librarian (with death company in drop pod)

 

Elites

5 Terminators, 4 storm bolter and powerfist, 1 assault cannon and power fist

 

Troops

10 Tactical Squad, plasma gun, missile launcher, powerfist and bolter sergeant

10 Tactical Squad, plasms gun, heavy bolter, chainsword and bolt pistol sergeant

5 Death company, bolters in drop pod

 

Heavy support

Dakka Predator

[Blacksad]

drop those powerfists; powerswords will do. this might net you enough points for a body or 2 more

 

truth be told though, your "friend" has made an extremely mean list...

 

perhaps change the dakka pred into a vindicator might help out a bit too. thing is, he has 48 models to your 33, and he has 9/10 AP3 range 48 weapons. realisticaly, surviving till round 4 is amazing.

[TheBiasedBloodAngel]

My version of BA of i were to face this space dog player

Hq - Librarian = 100

Troop- 10man Tactical flamer, missile, powersword =185

Troop- 10man Tactical flamer, missile, powersword =185

Heavy- Raven, TL-AC, HBS, MM = 230

Fast- Vanguard Vets = 115 (Free Sword)

Fast- Vanguard Vets = 115 (Free Sword)

Elite- Sang priest, power weapon = 65

= 995

with 5 points to spare

Space Wolves are broken, Long Fang spam is cheese.

Strategy

Vanguard Vets go into reserve, when they arrive they Heroic Intervention the fangs, with a power weapon and 4 attacks each you should win regardless of counter attack. With the fangs dead your storm raven will be Extremely survivable. And its load out with the assault canon and hurricane bolters will tear his infantry to pieces. The problem with this list is half your dudes are in reserve. So with the librarian 2 tactical squads and a priest left to fend against the might of the space dogs may seem impossible but it can be done. i would castle all your dudes together, so they all have FNP and FC from the priest. The librarian throws up shield of sanguinius and divination, this way you get a 5+ cover against the plasma and 5+ FNP. once he comes down with the greyhunters he has 1 turn to shoot you then assault with all your guys, (so your safe from shooting) with 3PW and a force weapon, Furious charge and divination you will tear him up and be safe from getting shot at by plasma/fangs. Once you wipe the bastards out leg it for cover and wait for the Vets and raven to save your ass.

This is the list i would build in facing those SW. Im sure a lot of people will disagree with it but meh. I'd atleast drop the death company and spend the points on some vets.

Hope this helps and gives u something to think about.

(Whoops ignore the last part about the turn 1 greyhunters, i assumed they were in pods)

[Hadron Ka'sel]

Sorry Biased. But you forgot to give the Vanguards any Jump packs. They don't come with JP for free from what i can remember off the top of my head.

[TheBiasedBloodAngel]

ah :cuss, your right. Maybe just get the 1 squad. 

[Xenith]

Nasty list to play against. Deals with 2+ and 3+ effectively. No way of dealing with AV14.

 

100 Librarian

200 Stormraven, plasma cannons

310 3DC Dedicated land raider redeemer

310 3DC dedicated land raider redeemer

5 scouts. Sniper rifles.

 

995 pts

 

You can probably get away with 1 raider. or drop the raven to bulk out the DC and get the scouts camo cloaks/ADL.

[Orblivion]

Furioso Dreadnought equipped with Frag Cannon in a drop pod, will cause nightmares for the Grey Hunters.  Stormraven is good and I like Biased's idea with the VV, but as mentioned you're probably better off just going with 1 squad of them.  If you want to keep the Death Company get rid of the bolters, take them out of the drop pod and either run them in the Stormraven or throw them in a razorback.  I only run my Death Company with bolters if they have power fists or thunder hammers.  Otherwise they're better off with the extra attack, especially in a 5 man squad.  You also don't want them in a pod because they NEED the charge.

 

Also try to keep your drop pods at an odd number, helps you make the most of the drop pod assault.

[TheBiasedBloodAngel]

Xenith need astorath to run 2 squads of DC

[Lord Sondar]

Thanks for the replies.  My friend was testing a list for tournament, it was harsh.  I don't think he'll be winning any awards for a nice balanced list. 

 

I have played his Wolves a few times across 5th and 6th edition.  I've only managed one win, in a skrimish style encounter with one troop choice each.  The redundancy in the list is scary, once I take down a squad I realisically have two identical units to dismantle.

 

I'm keen to try out drop pod Furisos and agree the drop pod Death Company don't work, they need the charge.  I take on board the point about the power sword not finding the power fist any use at all.  The Heroic Intervention Vanguard Vets will hurt one of the Long Fangs squads or at least stop the shooting me, any suggestions for the other?

 

Can I make use of any RAS to outmanuver the Grey Hunters for objective type games?

 

[Morticon]

Fragioso for the win!

 

Also, 1k is really tough for the angels. 

Mephiston will CHOMP against this list - but take a lot out of your 1k.  

[Zynk Kaladin]

I am painting tears on my cheeks seeing a dear brother of ours defeated by such a strong list. However, there is still retribution!

Fragioso for the win!

Yes x infinity.

Two fragiosos should gleefully explodinate two long fang squads easily and with impunity on turn 1. That leaves him with 1 LF squad and his GHs to attempt blasting through their righteously chiseled av13 front armor with their puny str 8 waterballoons, and str 7 waterguns. Proceed to laugh as their weapons bounce off your fragioso's ceramite abs of Sanguinius.

Here's a list I would take:

HQ

+1 Libby(Axe, Prescience): 100 <- EDIT: sword would be better, actually.

ELITES

+1 "Fragioso"(fragcannon, meltagun, pod): 160

+1 "Fragioso"(fragcannon, meltagun, pod): 160

TROOPS

+10 "Tacti-cools" (plasmagun, multimelta, pod): 215

+5 assault marines (meltagun), razorback(AssC): 200

+5 assault marines (meltagun), razorback(Heavy Flamer): 165

Drop both fragiosos on turn 1, and by turn 2 drop the tacs with attached libby for prescience dakka. Assault Marines in razors weather turn 1 out of line of sight if you don't go first.

EDIT2: Don't forget yer drop pod's stormbolter shots! Remember, they're snap shots the turn they land, but operate as normal the rest of the game. With 3 pods, you could get a lot of shots throughout the game. Every little bit counts.

[knife&fork]

Fragioso for the win!

Yes x infinity.

Two fragiosos should gleefully explodinate two long fang squads easily and with impunity on turn 1.

I wouldn't count on it.

Frag cannons work best against larger squads or tightly packed formations. A small squad like long fangs are often found in terrain, split between multiple levels if possible. Terrain won't save them from the frag but it will provide cover from the melta (and grapple!) while possibly shaving inches off your dreads movement meaning fewer models under the template.

1-3 unsaved wounds is a more reasonable estimate.

[Zynk Kaladin]

Hmm, I need to play on terrain with more ruins. I totally forgot about multiple levels

Perhaps I am getting way too ahead of myself due to some recent success from the fragioso. I haven't played it as much as you, of that I'm sure. *calms self* Yes, 1-3 wounds is more reasonable, but that's enough to put some early hurt on their long ranged, high strength capabilities.

[SamaNagol]

Fight fire with Fire. 

 

Take Mephiston

[tzenes]

I'm by no means an experienced Blood Angles player, but a couple things stand out to me:

 

1. Podded Frangioso are super fun, but against a list with 9 missile launcher MEQ, you're probably giving up first blood (Pod is AV12 open topped)

2. Ditto for any Razorspam

3. Rune Priests really mess with Libby's and even Meph

4. Krak missiles are ID (no FNP), but those Plasma guns aren't

5. Unless he's paying for Flakk missiles and you forgot to mention it, he has 0 skyfire

 

If it were me, I'd probably run a Stormraven TLAC, 2-3 Jump pack Assault Squads (swords), jump priest and outflank a Baal Pred.  You could probably do something interesting with a Tanky Captain or just go for a cheap HQ.

 

I like the TLAC because the odds of not rolling a 6 on 4 dice is about 50/50, so I feel like you're averaging 1.5 unsaved (instead of 1 from TLLC); though you could do TLLC instead.

Outflanking the Baal will probably mean he arrives on a turn when your Assault Squads are much closer to his gunline (instead of getting eaten by Krak early on).

I like the JP Assault Squads because I feel like I can find them good cover saves (unlike Rhino/Razor which feel like free KP).

You can play around with Storm Shields for tanking some of that incoming fire, but I'm not sure if it's a good investment of points.

You can probably count on linebreaker, but you're probably going to give up first blood.

You could add in DC (stick them in the Stormraven), but I don't like depending on reserves to get most of my units on the board.

 

Or you could just switch it all up and run 2 Vindi.  Strength 8 against AV13 is tough.  Better if you can get some cover.

 

I don't know, like I said I'm not super experienced, this is just my first impression based on what you said.

[Blacksad]

SW don't have any non-allied non Forge World anti-air. btw: Biased: Space wolves aren't broken. you just can't play for :cuss

[TheBiasedBloodAngel]

Blacksad Long fang spam is just ridiculous. Your obviously not a BA player so f$ck off to some space dog post if you have no productive input. Talk about a WAAC auto win army. You stray flee ridden mut. Leman Russ was gay by the way, Whilst Sanguinius and Dorn were readying the defences on terra, Russ was finger bashing Robout  Gulliman of the Ultra Smurfs.  

 

A cheesy list to consider 

 

Mephiston = 250

5 Assault marines in Redeemer, = 305

 

5 Assault marines in Redeemer, = 305

Vindicator = 145

Vindicator = 145 

= 1000 

 

Put the raiders out front, vindicators behind them for a cover save and push forward. Crash into him at full force open up with the 2 assault canons, negate both his cover and armour with the 4 flame storms, bombard him with pie plates  and kick the brown stuff out of him with mephiston. I dont see how his list would have any chance in beating this. The Raiders, Mephiston and Vindis can potentially remove handfuls of dudes a turn and he cant stop all of them even with split fire. 

[Blacksad]

1. there is no auto-win. except playing against losers.

2. no need to be offensive just cause you're such a loser as covered in point 1.

3. I have been giving advice.

4. Nowhere in the rules does it state that I am dissalowed from visiting or posting in a forum not about the Space Wolves.

5. Russ was actualy on his way to Terra. learn your fluff before bitching about it.

[Xenith]

Xenith need astorath to run 2 squads of DC

Mind slip. you can swap both DC for ASM if you drop the scouts.

 

 

 

Two fragiosos should gleefully explodinate two long fang squads easily and with impunity on turn 1.  

 

 

As above, I doubt it. If they place them on the 3rd level of a ruin, your dread is impotent, not to mention dead next turn from 5 krak missiles.

 

 

 

 

Fight fire with Fire. 

 

Take Mephiston

 

 

Against 6 plasma guns and a Rune Priest?

 

Sanguinor is a much better bet. 3++ for the plasma. 2+ for the Kraks.

 

 

 

How about 10 devs, 4 plasma cannons, combined with the podding talon furioso (pods into cover/LOS blocked)

 

The devs will make a mess of any unit in the opposing army. if the fangs shoot the dread, theyre not shooting the devs.

[Ushtarador]

Stormraven with talon dread is quite beardy on 1000 points, especially against lists like this. The raven will munch a squad of longfangs upon arrival, then disembark the dread to easily stomp the grey hunters and wipe a second squad of longfangs. Beautiful : ))

 

Also, kraks are really quite inefficient against AV13 dreads, you have a very good chance of surviving 5 missiles, especially if you manage to stand behind cover.

[Blacksad]

indeed, with a bit of tailoring anything can be beat. There are no insta-win armies, contrairy to popular belief.

[SamaNagol]

 

 

 

 

Fight fire with Fire. 

 

Take Mephiston

 

 

Against 6 plasma guns and a Rune Priest?

 

Sanguinor is a much better bet. 3++ for the plasma. 2+ for the Kraks.

 

 

Yep. If you allow 6 Plasma guns to ever fire at him, you need to give up and play Checkers. What's the Rune Priest gonna do? Dispel stuff you dont need to cast anyway? He's only got a 4+ dispel. You should be able to get Wings off easily enough. That's all you need to eat through Grey Hunters and Long Fangs

[Morticon]

To the two new posters in this thread that just got themselves warnings (the first BA posters to do so in over a year) we'd like to clear some things up.

 

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That being said, we do NOT stand for out of line posts, ad hominum attacks and general trolling/flaming like you see elsewhere.  

If you are new to the B&C and were not aware of it, no harm, no foul (well...no irreconcilable foul) but be cautioned, we are a close-knit, friendly and supportive community for the most part.

 

Posters stepping in and acting like petulant children will be dealt with as such.  We've run a friendly and open ship, but a tight ship.  Lets keep it that way and see how we can add to the community in a productive way, rather than acting how we do elsewhere.  If you havent had the chance, please remember to read through our forum rules.  Here->  http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/22-rules-of-the-bc/

And if you have read them, please remember to keep them in mind. 

 

Thanks,

Morticon and JamesI

[cerberus_]

Nasty list to play against. Deals with 2+ and 3+ effectively. No way of dealing with AV14.

100 Librarian

200 Stormraven, plasma cannons

310 3DC Dedicated land raider redeemer

310 3DC dedicated land raider redeemer

5 scouts. Sniper rifles.

995 pts

You can probably get away with 1 raider. or drop the raven to bulk out the DC and get the scouts camo cloaks/ADL.

Ecept that you can not have multiple units of DC without astorath

Oops people alread commented this...

[Ghostwolfalpha]

With no 2+ sv except maybe on the RP, Baal preds will tear him up. You will most likely lose them, but each will take down a lot if wolves. Make sure to drop the rhinos as soon as possible to force him to walk his guys across the board and to open them up for the baals. A dread will give him something to shoot his missiles at and distract him from your baals. If he goes after the baals anyways, then one of his LF packs is going to die when that dread hits them.

 

MEQ vs MEQ is almost always a give and take. You have to choose what dies and what is ment to get the job done and do your best to force that decision on your opponent. The more choices you make for him, the better you will do.

 

That being said, I love vindicators. They can kill anything except flyers. Blood Angels have the best vindicator as it is highly mobile which helps the 24" range. Just dont get to close or they will grenade it to death. A Baal is a good screen as they will not want to be anywhere near them. If they charge or get in rapidfire range of one, the other can swoop in and tear them up. Meanwhile, your dread it keeping the old guys with big guns busy.