DA Optimal Tactical Squad loadout discussion & tactics

[Xarga]

I have always found myself conflicted as to what the optimal configuration would be for Dark Angel Tactical Squads, obviously this can change depending on the enemy or situation you want them for. 

Here are some of the questions i keep asking myself:

 

• Do we keep them purely with Bolters and run the dakka banner and form a defensive firing line? This can overwhelm the enemy with pure volume of fire but can limit the flexibility and mobility of the squads drastically.

 

• Do we run them in rhinos which a special and heavy weapon? This can make them highly mobile, letting them relocate quickly and depending on the weapon configurations deal with most situations. What weapon combination synergies well for this role? Does it make them a jack of all trades but master of none?

 

• Do we deep strike them in drop pods? This can let them get to the frontline very quickly but essentially leaves them stranded away from the rest of the army unless you have sufficient fire support or volume of drop pods. Melta weapons could work wonders in this situation but perhaps the Ravenwing fill the melta role better?

 

• Do we run them in Razorbacks in small squads/combat squad them? This can give us some extra fire support and can let the squad be in two places at once, perhaps with the usual special weapon + sergeant ride in the Razorback and the heavy weapon plus the rest stay back and offer fire support. Although could this leave a split squad too vulnerable or unfocused?

 

• Perhaps one of my biggest questions is what wargear would i run on my sergeant? This can change due to obvious factors such as what army you face or what compliments the squads special/heavy weapons. Although do you use them to bolster what the squad can already do by matching his combi-weapon to the same type as the special weapon? (e.g. Combi-melta + Meltagun) Do you give him a combi-weapon that contrasts from what the squad can already do to increase their flexibility? Meltabombs perhaps for those rare cases you can pop a vehicle up close or would a Powerfist be better for this job? 

 

• Another point i ask is do we prepare them for assault? Obviously Tactical's are not intended for assault but i feel DA Tactical's are more vulnerable to it than other marines. Yes they have the same statline as vanilla marines but Grim Resolve prevents us from choosing to auto fall back from assault. This basically makes them tarpits if assaulted, so do we prepare for that in their loadout? Do we equip them with flamers and the sergeant with a powerweapon/chainsword to give them some counteraction to this? Do we try to rescue them by aiding them once they are assaulted with the nearest assault effective unit? Or do we simply try our hardest to avoid it entirely and let them be tarpits should it happen?

 

Personally the loadouts i tend to run on my tacticals are as follows:

• 10x Tactical Marines w/ Flamer, Missile Launcer, Combi-Melta, Rhino - Generally this setup is flexible, mobile and can tackle most situations but it doesn't particularly excel in any one area.
• 10x Tactical Marines w/ Plasmagun, Plasma Cannon, Combi-Plasma, Rhino - This can be used for mass Ap2 and can be great against other MEQ/TDA equivalent armies and glancing light vehicles to death but can be prone to killing themselves with all that plasma. The other issue is this can be expensive.
• 5x Tactical Marines w/ Heavy bolter, Stormbolter, Razorback w/ Twin-linked Assault cannon - This is a rather unconventional setup i like to run sometimes for some extra dakka, heavy bolters are surprisingly good even on mobile squads as they are easily the best option when it comes to snap-fire. However such a small squad could leave them vulnerable and are the points better spent on a dakka banner?

 

So now that i have presented you with all the questions i keep asking myself, what do you feel is the optimal way to run Tactical Squads in a Dark Angels army? What personally do you run? Perhaps their is no optimal solution but what complements the rest of the force well? How have your experiences weighted your decisions? and finally with your chosen loadouts how do you play them and what tactics do you use?

 

TL;DR - What loadouts do you use on your Tactical's? + why? + how do you use them?

[Master Sheol]

I usually Field 2 tactical squads.

10 men sergeant with plasma pistol and Chainsword, 1 plasma gun, 1 lascannon

10 men sergeant with Bolt pistol chainsword and melta bombs, meltagun, missile launcher

each one riding on a RB with LC+TLPG

i split them in Combat squads... Sergeant and special gun on the RB, heavy weapon half shooting at tanks.

[Apahllo]

^ I was looking into this tactic of using combat squads with razorbacks and assault cannons. It means giving the enemy plenty of targets to be efficient with their shooting but helps you move for multiple objectives. I figured with TL assault cannons and flakk upgraded ML I would have no problem dealing with flyers and armor.

 

The 10 man squad kitted for all enemies is my favorite pick of the litter, PW/PF vet srg with your favorite special and heavy weapons.

[Syphid]

I find the Razorback combat squad is useful because it allows you to field a static and mobile element within the same squad.

[pueriexdeus]

I also follow the 10X Flmr/PG, PC/ML, Sgt PF/PS, BP TLLC Rzrbk combos.

 

I leave the HW in the rear to hold the home objective and then maneuver the SGT's w/SW

[Brother Immolator]

I find the Razorback combat squad is useful because it allows you to field a static and mobile element within the same squad.

Recent experience (mine ), made me to consider the razorback a free kill point. And a first blood at that too.

To the general question of this thread I have two answers, one will probably sound like I am a duche but really I dont want to.

1st, my preference is a Flamer/Missile load out to keep things versatile.

2nd(duche part) I dont think there is an optimal configuration. Tac squads are supposed to be a flexible tool, therefore supposedly(and that is if you dont play based on meta game/list tailoring) they have to carry whatever can help them do their job: Claim and keep objectives.

[pueriexdeus]

The Rzrbk free kill point first blood thingy seems to be situational. I have never lost one to First Blood, though they have been blown out from under the Troops feet.

 

As in any game I tend to develop the situation before committing the Rzrbk and its occupants to move into contact. Using the Rzrbks TLLC in cover tends to give me First Blood.

 

As far as the TAC Sqd load out I have two configurations/

1) PF/BP,  ML/PG

2) CS/BP, PC/Flmr

 

I'll always leave the Combat Sqd w/HW on my OBJ to support by fire the two maneuvering Combat Sqds w/SW. Normally I'll put the PH/PG in the Rzrbk and have the CS/Flmr on foot behind. They will also have a JP/Chappi with them. Moving at Combat speed will allow the Rzrbk to use its TLCC at full potential.

[Xarga]

I find the Razorback combat squad is useful because it allows you to field a static and mobile element within the same squad.

I do find the ability to have two scoring units and one vehicle as part of a single FOC very useful and obviously diverse. My only issue with this setup is the extra kill points it can throw out there or small squads not being able to sustain allot of enemy firepower. I can't argue with it's offensive effectiveness but on the receiving end of gun fire is were i hesitate to take this option.

I find the Razorback combat squad is useful because it allows you to field a static and mobile element within the same squad.

Recent experience (mine ), made me to consider the razorback a free kill point. And a first blood at that too.

To the general question of this thread I have two answers, one will probably sound like I am a duche but really I dont want to.

1st, my preference is a Flamer/Missile load out to keep things versatile.

2nd(duche part) I dont think there is an optimal configuration. Tac squads are supposed to be a flexible tool, therefore supposedly(and that is if you dont play based on meta game/list tailoring) they have to carry whatever can help them do their job: Claim and keep objectives.

Perhaps optimal was the wrong way to describe the discussion as you have said their is no real one solution. Perhaps a better way of wording it would be what combination of weapons/wargear/transports proves effective and efficient at their points cost? And also is a close combat centered sergeant essential/advised due to Grim Resolve.

I do definitely agree on the Flamer/Missile Launcher being the most versatile though and the loadout i tend to run the most.

[Apahllo]

^i like to keep their weapons associated if they aren't being combat squaded. The plasma squad from dark vengeance keeps things simple by allowing you to shoot the stink out of anything close and far.

 

As for efficiency, I think the combat squad and a transport that let's you claim far away objectives claims the crown in that regard. DA are all about support imo, so I tend to supply them with what the rest of my army will be lacking..

[Brother Immolator]

The Rzrbk free kill point first blood thingy seems to be situational. I have never lost one to First Blood, though they have been blown out from under the Troops feet.

As in any game I tend to develop the situation before committing the Rzrbk and its occupants to move into contact. Using the Rzrbks TLLC in cover tends to give me First Blood.

As far as the TAC Sqd load out I have two configurations/

1) PF/BP, ML/PG

2) CS/BP, PC/Flmr

I'll always leave the Combat Sqd w/HW on my OBJ to support by fire the two maneuvering Combat Sqds w/SW. Normally I'll put the PH/PG in the Rzrbk and have the CS/Flmr on foot behind. They will also have a JP/Chappi with them. Moving at Combat speed will allow the Rzrbk to use its TLCC at full potential.

I wouldnt call the fact that a missile launcher at 42 inch range has the potential to destroy it on a single hit first turn situational, with all the prolifiration of marine armies and the missile launcher devastator fetish that seems to be going around. And I wont go to the Long Fang or new tau fields.

I had it happen to me 5 times in a row. Everything below av13 is a first blood hazard in this edition. By destroying the razor back you are claiming victory points and ensure their denial to the enemy. Its very good to ignore.

I find the Razorback combat squad is useful because it allows you to field a static and mobile element within the same squad.

I do find the ability to have two scoring units and one vehicle as part of a single FOC very useful and obviously diverse. My only issue with this setup is the extra kill points it can throw out there or small squads not being able to sustain allot of enemy firepower. I can't argue with it's offensive effectiveness but on the receiving end of gun fire is were i hesitate to take this option.

As I said two times in my posts, I am on the same ground. I use mine as Las/plas equiped. When they open fire, people duck and cover. When they are fired upon, I tend to cry. I usually dont combat squad but I will depending on the opponent. If I face nid small gribles or orks I will use the flamer part of the combat squad as a screen and deterent unit, to allow the missile guys to fire one more turn or get the hell out if it is necessary.

I find the Razorback combat squad is useful because it allows you to field a static and mobile element within the same squad.

Recent experience (mine ), made me to consider the razorback a free kill point. And a first blood at that too.

To the general question of this thread I have two answers, one will probably sound like I am a duche but really I dont want to.

1st, my preference is a Flamer/Missile load out to keep things versatile.

2nd(duche part) I dont think there is an optimal configuration. Tac squads are supposed to be a flexible tool, therefore supposedly(and that is if you dont play based on meta game/list tailoring) they have to carry whatever can help them do their job: Claim and keep objectives.

Perhaps optimal was the wrong way to describe the discussion as you have said their is no real one solution. Perhaps a better way of wording it would be what combination of weapons/wargear/transports proves effective and efficient at their points cost? And also is a close combat centered sergeant essential/advised due to Grim Resolve.

I do definitely agree on the Flamer/Missile Launcher being the most versatile though and the loadout i tend to run the most.

Glad you didnt take offense on the way I posted, I just couldnt find a better way (after all English is not my mother language, despite me been versed in its use) to describe it.

On the sarge, I have some beefs, that dirive from the edition, my love of swords as compared to bludgeons and the codex itself:

First of all I used to always to have a PF on my sarges back in the day(pre 6th) due to assault walker or IC dangers. With the scalling of power weapons (I dont like the use of the term nerf to describe said tweeking) and challenges I thought I would swap to power swords. After all I love swords and IMHO its only proper since we have a winged sword as a chapter symbol. Plus our sarges can take melta bombs and the rules tweeking with this edition, more or less make it a tad bit more easy for said gear to hit. Then I found that the maul is more effective than the sword in what it does, despite the fact that I dont like the looks but I decided to go that way. So now hassle on the fist loss.

Then comes the new dex. LO and behold you must pay extra to get the extra attack...While I love having options to save points, I find myself to be in a distinct lack of said points on almost every list I build. So the poor sarges are the first to feel the budget cuts. Now this combined with the fact that even with a power weapon (whatever the type), whoever is going to challenge a sarge is going to kill him for sure (or If I challenge my true purpose is to save the rest of the squad and use the sarge as a sacraficial lamp), there is no need for the power weapon. Thereby I am admolising the CC focus completely. My sarges grab bolters and join their squads in shooting.

I would elaborate this even further that with grim resolve, I have come to more situations where I was hopping to loose the LD check, thereby making the vet upgrade more obselete, but this is trully situational.

Anyway my 2cs.

[captain sox]

It's an iteresting thread that's fo sure. I actually had a topic along the lines of if we even needed 10 man tactical squads at all.

 

I think it all depends on what your army is designed to do. If it's a "Multi-Wing", then, in my opinion, Tac Squads should be 5-7 man, with a heavy weapon. Keep them cheap, and you can put quite a few heavy weapons on the table. Because in all honesty, your opponent will be focussing his firepower on your terminators, bikes, etc.  

 

If you are running "Greenwing", then 10 Man are the way to go, but I don't think combat squading is the way to go... for the same exact reason people are going to say "no" to a 5 man Tac  with a Heavy: easy killpoint, etc.

 

The way my army is shaping up, I'm building 6 x 6 man tactical squads each with a heavy weapon. I will be running Belial and DW for most games, so I'm not concerned about scoring units. I can put 4 tac squads on the board with a heavy weapon in each for around 100 pts each, which in 1500 pt games will leave me room for about 1000 pts of Heavy Support, FA and Terminators.

 

Again, just how I plan to build my army... there is no right or wrong. Just fun!

[Brother Immolator]

It's an iteresting thread that's fo sure. I actually had a topic along the lines of if we even needed 10 man tactical squads at all.

 

I think it all depends on what your army is designed to do. If it's a "Multi-Wing", then, in my opinion, Tac Squads should be 5-7 man, with a heavy weapon. Keep them cheap, and you can put quite a few heavy weapons on the table. Because in all honesty, your opponent will be focussing his firepower on your terminators, bikes, etc.  

 

If you are running "Greenwing", then 10 Man are the way to go, but I don't think combat squading is the way to go... for the same exact reason people are going to say "no" to a 5 man Tac  with a Heavy: easy killpoint, etc.

 

The way my army is shaping up, I'm building 6 x 6 man tactical squads each with a heavy weapon. I will be running Belial and DW for most games, so I'm not concerned about scoring units. I can put 4 tac squads on the board with a heavy weapon in each for around 100 pts each, which in 1500 pt games will leave me room for about 1000 pts of Heavy Support, FA and Terminators.

 

Again, just how I plan to build my army... there is no right or wrong. Just fun!

Just to point out something based on my perspective of things:

 

If you are running multy wing, chances are that your terms and bikes will not FOC jump and that your tacs will be the scorring units.

If the scenario is objective based, you will really have a day if he just insists on killing your terms and bikes.

If he decides to go on a non maxed tac squad though, you are at a severe risk of loosing, unless you stop him somehow.

IMHO if you plan to take tacs at all, always max em. Combat squaded or not they are still ten bodies that can score.

[captain sox]

Brother I

 

I'm not trying to be ignorant, or anything like that, I am not a very experienced player... I just have a few points to why I think 10 man tacs are kind of a waste of points now....

 

I still don't see how Terms or Bikes can't be troops even in Multi-Wing lists. My reasoning is to try and keep my tacs small, cheap and forgettable to my opponent while still packing a bit of a punch.

 

 We're all under the agreement that Tacs should not try to assault anything... they should sit back and cover objectives (if thats the type of game you are playing), but with so many HQ options to make Termies and Bikes troops, why waste the points on 10 Marines, upgrading all of thier weapons and buying them a transport?  

 

Here's some simple math I just figured out:

 

10 Man Tac Squad with Plasma Cannon, Plasma Gun and Powersword on Sarge: 185 (195 if you upgrade the sarge)

add transport: 55 pts(base razorback) and you have 240 pts for that tac squad with those wepons / transport.

 

minus the transport, plasma gun and 3 Marines, you get 112 extra points to play around with.. you can bump a couple of your 5 man (scoring) Terminator Squads to 6 man , or can get another couple of bikes, etc. With that Tac squad, you still get that long range ML or LC or PC even, and quite a few sacrificial bodies.

 

I don't really play a great amount of games, and I am by no means an expert tactician / general. I'm just trying to think of different ways of using Tac Squads, rather than the "10 man has always been the way, always will be." Seems bland and very vanilla-esque.

Our Codex has the advantage of equiping our 5 man Tac Squads with either a heavy or special weapon, and I don't think any other Codex allows that.... If they do then oh well....

 

I'm just trying to think outside the 10 man box.

 

thoughts?

[pueriexdeus]

 

The Rzrbk free kill point first blood thingy seems to be situational. I have never lost one to First Blood, though they have been blown out from under the Troops feet.

 

As in any game I tend to develop the situation before committing the Rzrbk and its occupants to move into contact. Using the Rzrbks TLLC in cover tends to give me First Blood.

 

As far as the TAC Sqd load out I have two configurations/

1) PF/BP,  ML/PG

2) CS/BP, PC/Flmr

 

I'll always leave the Combat Sqd w/HW on my OBJ to support by fire the two maneuvering Combat Sqds w/SW. Normally I'll put the PH/PG in the Rzrbk and have the CS/Flmr on foot behind. They will also have a JP/Chappi with them. Moving at Combat speed will allow the Rzrbk to use its TLCC at full potential.

I wouldnt call the fact that a missile launcher at 42 inch range has the potential to destroy it on a single hit first turn situational, with all the prolifiration of marine armies and the missile launcher devastator fetish that seems to be going around. And I wont go to the Long Fang or new tau fields.

I had it happen to me 5 times in a row. Everything below av13 is a first blood hazard in this edition. By destroying the razor back you are claiming victory points and ensure their denial to the enemy. Its very good to ignore.

 

By your admission it actually is situational. You have placed your Rzrbk in a situation that allows it to be first blood five times in a row, I have not. The weapon in question is not even a factor, there are many that can kill a Rzrbk/Rhino chassis.

 

It is possible that we are facing entirely different opponents, yep thats probably true. I might not have such luck in your FGS and you might fare better in mine?

 

The upside is that there are ways to save yourself from first blood, usually that means you have to take it yourself.

 

Remember every coin has two sides.

[pueriexdeus]

Brother I

 

I'm not trying to be ignorant, or anything like that, I am not a very experienced player... I just have a few points to why I think 10 man tacs are kind of a waste of points now....

 

I still don't see how Terms or Bikes can't be troops even in Multi-Wing lists. My reasoning is to try and keep my tacs small, cheap and forgettable to my opponent while still packing a bit of a punch.

 

 We're all under the agreement that Tacs should not try to assault anything... they should sit back and cover objectives (if thats the type of game you are playing), but with so many HQ options to make Termies and Bikes troops, why waste the points on 10 Marines, upgrading all of thier weapons and buying them a transport?  

 

Here's some simple math I just figured out:

 

10 Man Tac Squad with Plasma Cannon, Plasma Gun and Powersword on Sarge: 185 (195 if you upgrade the sarge)

add transport: 55 pts(base razorback) and you have 240 pts for that tac squad with those wepons / transport.

 

minus the transport, plasma gun and 3 Marines, you get 112 extra points to play around with.. you can bump a couple of your 5 man (scoring) Terminator Squads to 6 man , or can get another couple of bikes, etc. With that Tac squad, you still get that long range ML or LC or PC even, and quite a few sacrificial bodies.

 

I don't really play a great amount of games, and I am by no means an expert tactician / general. I'm just trying to think of different ways of using Tac Squads, rather than the "10 man has always been the way, always will be." Seems bland and very vanilla-esque.

 

Our Codex has the advantage of equiping our 5 man Tac Squads with either a heavy or special weapon, and I don't think any other Codex allows that.... If they do then oh well....

 

I'm just trying to think outside the 10 man box.

 

thoughts?

One of the great equalizers for a DA army is body count and firepower. I have discovered that the more bodies I have the more firepower I can generate. Last few years learning to win with limited Troop numbers (DW) has taught me this. With the inclusion of the DW gunline putting a HW in a Demi Sqd could be detrimental as opposed to using the full 10 man Sqd. You can still break the Sqd apart and use the SW CS to provide close support for the HW CS portion shooting only one weapon.

[Brother Immolator]

@ pueriexdeus: I am playing with a diverse group of opponents. Plus if you have spend points on getting and upgrading a vehicle to be able to fire at extreme range, you will try to have it use said gun. Otherwise take a rhino right? All I am saying is any thing from av12 and lower that you paid points to strap a gun on, is a hazard for first blood. Can you ensure that it wont happen?Yes and No. Yes if you are comfortable by keeping the vehicle out of sight to keep it safe (thereby invalidating half its purpose in the first place) and again yes if you deny first blood by claiming it, which will be based on a roll to see who goes first. Now dont ask me to take into account the roll results.

TLDR: As you can see both our arguments can be described as situational. There is no set of parameters in a game of dice, generalization and personal experience is the only way to make an argument. And in general with all the toys that can be fielded a AV12 and below will be torn to shreds, unless you park it in a corner and leave it there.

@ captain sox: I never claimed you to be ignorant or ever claimed that I am Sun Tzu. My observations come from what I see on the games I am getting recently . Never let anyone say I am posing as a tutor of how to play the game. I am just analyzing the results of my games and try to pass on the results. If something is not right, I am happy to be shot down by a solid argument!


I also didnt say that terms and bikes wont be scoring. But in a 1850 pts list (prevalent these days due to many people wanting to limit double FOC), you are bound to see mostly solo squads of terms or Black Knights, in a support role and the rest to be a greenwing element supported by a cheap HQ (usually a libby). Not that dual wing or Deathwing or Ravenwing only armies are not possible but we are discussing about multy right?

On your reasoning I would agree with the costs involved save the fact that you need to add the cost of almost 200pts for belial or a second LR cost for azrael to make them scorring.


@ everyone and the OP: I have to say, I am really enjoying this thread. Since the new dex has come out, I was really sadened by what I have been reading in the forum.
Thank you guys.

[Gillyfish]

Well, I haven't played in a while, but my intention would be to form a solid core to my army. That may often be tactical squads as they are a good way of getting bodies onto the board. Now I may take a ten man squad but I might not give it a heavy weapon if I want to use to advance and put pressure on an opponent. That said, now we can snap fire, a heavy bolter becomes interesting as part of that unit. A ten man tactical squad can be quite difficult to shift - it's durable and can put out some painful short range fire. It supported correctly it can be a real pain to deal with. Back in 4th edition (prior to the 2007 codex) my tactical squads would often be the units that won me the game (not just because they're troops either) as they were mobile, could go toe-to-toe with other troop options and had a reasonable chance in close combat or shooting. I had other units to take out anything nastier (vehicles, heavy infantry). Now obviously things have moved on, but the flexibility we have now with tacticals is welcome and I might be tempted to run 8 man mobile squads to provide close range fire support, 5 man mini devastator squads, etc. Depends how much I need those troop slots!

[captain sox]

@ Brother I,

I always post in a lighthearted tone... I am not a very serious person at all. I hope the tone or context of my post wasn't taken as defensive or anything like that. I was being honest, since I rarely play (I don't know much about synergies and rules, etc) and I was really trying not to sound ignorant or uneducated, because I don't have much gaming experience. I'm still learning the game (after 5 years being in this hobby) and I like to see all sides of things.

[Xarga]

Brother I

 

I'm not trying to be ignorant, or anything like that, I am not a very experienced player... I just have a few points to why I think 10 man tacs are kind of a waste of points now....

 

I still don't see how Terms or Bikes can't be troops even in Multi-Wing lists. My reasoning is to try and keep my tacs small, cheap and forgettable to my opponent while still packing a bit of a punch.

 

 We're all under the agreement that Tacs should not try to assault anything... they should sit back and cover objectives (if thats the type of game you are playing), but with so many HQ options to make Termies and Bikes troops, why waste the points on 10 Marines, upgrading all of thier weapons and buying them a transport?  

 

Here's some simple math I just figured out:

 

10 Man Tac Squad with Plasma Cannon, Plasma Gun and Powersword on Sarge: 185 (195 if you upgrade the sarge)

add transport: 55 pts(base razorback) and you have 240 pts for that tac squad with those wepons / transport.

 

minus the transport, plasma gun and 3 Marines, you get 112 extra points to play around with.. you can bump a couple of your 5 man (scoring) Terminator Squads to 6 man , or can get another couple of bikes, etc. With that Tac squad, you still get that long range ML or LC or PC even, and quite a few sacrificial bodies.

 

I don't really play a great amount of games, and I am by no means an expert tactician / general. I'm just trying to think of different ways of using Tac Squads, rather than the "10 man has always been the way, always will be." Seems bland and very vanilla-esque.

 

Our Codex has the advantage of equiping our 5 man Tac Squads with either a heavy or special weapon, and I don't think any other Codex allows that.... If they do then oh well....

 

I'm just trying to think outside the 10 man box.

 

thoughts?

 

Well, I haven't played in a while, but my intention would be to form a solid core to my army. That may often be tactical squads as they are a good way of getting bodies onto the board. Now I may take a ten man squad but I might not give it a heavy weapon if I want to use to advance and put pressure on an opponent. That said, now we can snap fire, a heavy bolter becomes interesting as part of that unit. A ten man tactical squad can be quite difficult to shift - it's durable and can put out some painful short range fire. It supported correctly it can be a real pain to deal with. Back in 4th edition (prior to the 2007 codex) my tactical squads would often be the units that won me the game (not just because they're troops either) as they were mobile, could go toe-to-toe with other troop options and had a reasonable chance in close combat or shooting. I had other units to take out anything nastier (vehicles, heavy infantry). Now obviously things have moved on, but the flexibility we have now with tacticals is welcome and I might be tempted to run 8 man mobile squads to provide close range fire support, 5 man mini devastator squads, etc. Depends how much I need those troop slots!

 

You both raise some good points. As silly as it sounds i've never really thought to run Tacticals with little to no upgrades and keep them moblile/advancing as they shoot. It could potentially be usefull for like you said pressure or simply to cut back on costs to bolster other more specialised areas of the force. As at the end of the day is taking a heavy weapon as necessary as it seems? I may get to rarely fire it if i'm being forced to advance/retreat or the situation requires me to get a better angle on the enemy.

[Guest TheoryCraft]

I like to run my Tacticals in a way that distinguishes them from other codexes.  This is in reference to brother sox's quote from above, which reads: "I'm just trying to think of different ways of using Tac Squads, rather than the '10 man has always been the way, always will be.' Seems bland and very vanilla-esque."

 

I see 2 distinguishing characteristics for our Tacticals: (1) Dakka banner squads, and (2) 5 man MSU squads with a heavy weapon.  Regarding the dakka banner, no Marine army can put out that many bolter shots point for point.  Is the SoD a bit clunky and gimmicky?  Maybe.  But I can attest to its quality in action in games I've played so far.  The key is to not make it the singular focal point of the army, but rather one important piece out of many (so if the SoD gets shot out your strategy doesn't collapse).

 

Regarding the 5x MSU squads, I believe Dark Angels are the only Marine army that can get a 5x squad with a heavy weapon.  There's one heavy weapon in particular that I love: Plasma Cannons.  Can't get enough Plasma Cannons.  For a measly 85 points you can get a scoring squad of Stubborn marines with a Str 7 AP 2 blast weapon.  I haven't tried MSU spam yet, but I imagine a crapola of MSU plasma cannon squads would put significant fear into any opponent (and if you are worried about your scoring choices being 5 man squads, either throw a few 10 mans in there or take DW/RW as troops).  How are other people's experiences with MSU troops with Plasma Cannons?