Alpha Legion: What Armour Mark?

[Kais Klip]

 

Does anyone care to say what Armour mark the Legion was predisposed towards, if any? I just cannot imagine them in anything earlier than Mk IV on the field of battle (neither can I Raven Guard, aleast non-heavy support or breacher squads for either of them, for instance), while I don't see a reason the Legion would have to acquire Mk V plate either, at least for any non-covert operations. Neither Deliverance lost nor Serpent Beneath mention anything in regards to plate, albeit I would imagine the Primarchs to use MkIV if but for aesthetic reasons, and so far my skim of Legion reveals nothing.

 

Any insight from you lads, despite the legion in question?

[TheCrimsonLancer]

Whatever works best for their current mission. Aside from that, I think they would like the advanced features of mkIV.

[Skylifter]

Actually, I think in several instances in Legion they worked without power armour. I can't really imagine an Alpha Legion trooper in Mk III, either. 

[Ezeriel]

If they're infiltrating another legion, they'll use whatever that legion uses. Otherwise I think they would use whatever was best for the situation.

[Aegnor]

I think it said in Legion they were wearing the "most advanced" mark. It could be mk.6, but it might have been a bit early - eg the Raven Guard got the first mass delivery in Deliverance Lost, so mk.4.

 

That said, I think they'd have examples of every type to use as required, inc. Mk.2 and 3.

[mysteriousmaskedmystery]

you can model them however you like, but i would think the legion would have some of everything.  no legion that i know of received enough mark IV, which was the most advanced suit available at the onset of the heresy, to completely do away with older suits.  they would likely have plenty of mark II around, since mark III was more of a specialized suit, rather than a total replacement for mark II.  also, mark V didn't come into being until after the start of the heresy and it was only a stop-gap, for the loyalists at least, though I guess you could say it's pretty much the extent of power armor development for the traitors since marks six and seven were almost exclusively loyalist.

[Excessus]

They were the newest Legion, equipped with the latest tech. But as the heresy progresses they too needs to "equip" the Mk V suit, that is, a mix of any and all spare parts and odd extra manufactured pieces and bits they can salvage/loot/manufacture. Any Power Armour suit is extremely valuable(and I assume they would need suits for any new recruits), and though the Mk. III doesn't have the superior tech of the Mk. IV, it is extremely durable and well suited for many situations, like ship to ship combat or fighting in dense urban terrain. Alpha Legion isn't a legion to discriminate between armours, though their main armour would still be Mk. IV and V...

[AekoldHelbrass]

marks six and seven were almost exclusively loyalist.

VII and VIII yes, but VI was produced on Mars, which was captured by Horus. It would be quite logical for Horus to order equipment of his most trusted allies with MKVI, so it is probable for traitor Legions to get MKVI.

[Aegnor]

And it would be fine showing some Alpha Legion wearing mk.7 as well in my view. Being sneaky and stealing/misappropriating valuable stuff from the Imperials are pretty core skill-sets for them. Pulling a deception where some forgeworld was unwittingly supplying them with mk.7 armour would be pretty easy by their standards.

[Excessus]

And it would be fine showing some Alpha Legion wearing mk.7 as well in my view. Being sneaky and stealing/misappropriating valuable stuff from the Imperials are pretty core skill-sets for them. Pulling a deception where some forgeworld was unwittingly supplying them with mk.7 armour would be pretty easy by their standards.

Indeed. Besides, they never told anyone what world(s) they came from...so theoretically A&O can still be the lords of quite a few seemingly loyalist worlds...which lets them resupply ad infinitum really...

[Aegnor]

Alpha Legionnaire: "Yeah, uh, hi. I'm here from the Ultramarines. Calgar sent me to pick up the new armour."

Tech-priest: "we dispensed the Ultramarine armour consignment 6.71 planetary rotations ago."

AL: "Oh man. Did Sigma-237 talk to you? He was meant to talk to you.."

TP: "Who is..."

AL: "Look man, this wasn't our fault. Now Lord Calgar is waiting for this armour. I don't want to tell him he needs to call Mars to get this straightened out"

TP: "Mars? I'm sure that's not necessary..."

AL: "Well, I don't understand the hold up. We've got Tyranids inbound, an Ork Waaagh, we got no time for this man. <pauses> Look, you seem like a nice cyborg and I don't mean to get snappy at you. I shouldn't be telling you this, but we really need that armour now. There's problems here on some of the local forgeworlds.

TP: <gulps> on the holy Forgeworlds?

AL: absolutely man. Apparently some priests have been consorting with traitors, doing the wrong thing. We need the armour so we can go smash them to smithereens.

TP: smither.... reens?

AL: Absolutely. So you get why Lord Calgar is a bit stressed about getting his armour, right? I mean, he's a bit tense and I don't want to get anyone fired or...

y'know"

TP: nooo, of course not.

AL: But he has NO sense of humour right now. Is taking everything that goes wrong with tech as a sign of possible traitors. He's gone a bit mad really.

TP: So the armour...

AL: Exactly man. That's why I was worried no one told you about me coming today.

TP: of course, I understand. Um.. what did you need?

AL: here, I have a list. Thanks for this, big relief.

TP: oh, anything for the blessed Astartes.

AL: I'm going to put in a good word for you with Lord Calgar...

[AekoldHelbrass]

Well, since we are talking in the Horus Heresy branch, I would not use MKVII and MKVIII, because for some unknown reason I have an impression that MKVII appeared long after heresy. But as every legion tuned their armour for their purposes, I would not be surprised to see unknown marks or mixed wargear.

 

Also, even I would avoid using high collars of MKVIII, I have hard time looking for difference between MKVII standard facemask, Sarum pattern seen on page 93 of HH:B, and Mantilla pattern seen on page 71.

[Aegnor]

Yeah, I was thinking post heresy for Mks 7-8

[Kais Klip]

Nice info so far lads, I think at this point I'm going to grab some Mk IV plate to stand next to my 40k converted marines in Mks VI & VII. I'd go for Mk V but without the silvered trim on the edges of pauldrons all but Mk Vs provide I'm don't know where to add the silver secondary colour without it becoming too prevalent. Might follow the Legion artwork insofar as painting silver on the vambraces, but I was never a fan of painting limbs or sections separate to the scheme. 

[mysteriousmaskedmystery]

They were the newest Legion, equipped with the latest tech. But as the heresy progresses they too needs to "equip" the Mk V suit, that is, a mix of any and all spare parts and odd extra manufactured pieces and bits they can salvage/loot/manufacture. Any Power Armour suit is extremely valuable(and I assume they would need suits for any new recruits), and though the Mk. III doesn't have the superior tech of the Mk. IV, it is extremely durable and well suited for many situations, like ship to ship combat or fighting in dense urban terrain. Alpha Legion isn't a legion to discriminate between armours, though their main armour would still be Mk. IV and V...

they were still created on terra, with all the other legions, and would have begun with mark II.  all legions did, so again, how did they all the mark IV first as most sources say that mark IV was still being adopted at the time the heresy, with many legions still fielding plenty of mark II and III until they could completely swap out.

 

VII was either post, or i might remember some source saying it was at the siege of terra, but not before that.  and if you want a force that could have fought on istvaan III, you can't have six, though maybe a little bit of V to represent the later stages of that campaign and the guerrilla war with the raven guard.

[Excessus]

The Alpha Legion was indeed created on terra, but not all the legions were created at the same time. Alpha Legion happened to be last...it was a new legion when Alpharius was found and didn't have any old rigid structures or "old ways", so they eagerly started to adapt Alpharius' ways and methods. By the time the Alpha Legion would have been created(mere decades before the heresy if memory serves me correct) the production of Mk IV would have been in full swing!

 

And Alpha Legion didn't fight at Istvaan III...

[Kol Saresk]

Also, according to Deliverance Lost there were prototype suits of Mk VI being tested and since at least Deliverance and Ultramar had the capabilities of producing Power Armor, and the World Eaters had the loyalty of an entire Forgeworld(Sarum) according to FW's Betrayal, it is possible that the Alpha Legion would study the designs, make their own blueprints and then have a "friendly" Forgeworld begin to discreetly produce the Mk VI or maybe even some variant as the Ultramarines had their own "Praetor-variant" of the Mk V, to better hide the fact they have their own lines of tech-production. Although a "Hydra-variant" Mk VI might be stretching it.

[mysteriousmaskedmystery]

i think mark VI is stretching it unless you can find a source saying they had it.

 

mark IV was still new at the time of the heresy, so unless the alpha legion was created like, a week before the heresy, there's no way they were created entirely with mark IV and there is no reason they would have been given preference to receive other than the fluff that Horus made sure the traitors got it before the loyalists, but even among the traitors alpharius is barely trusted and i imagine the other primarchs would work to keep them near the bottom of the totem poll.

 

you can build them all mark IV if you like, and just say they were one of the companies to receive the new armor, but please don't try to stretch the fluff so far to justify taking it.

[Kol Saresk]

"New" is a relative term. Loken had it all the way back in the beginning of Horus Rising. All the Word Bearers had it(KNF, TFH, Battle for the Abyss) and since the XVII was the second largest Legion total and the largest of the Traitors, that's quite a production rate.

 

We know from Betrayal and Betrayer that the World Eaters also had it in abundance that "non-officers" owned a suit. Betrayal also shows that the Emperor's Children and the Death Guard at least had some Mk IV suits for their officers and the Palatine Guard. And since the Mk IV Recon and Destroyer Marines are painted in Night Lord colors, I'd imagine tht they are going to have some suits in Massacre. Speaking of which, I can't wait for that book. If I only buy one Forgeworld book, that's going to be it.

 

And IIRC, didn't the IA articles(or was it the Triumvirate[first three books of BL's HH series]?) say that Horus used his Mechanicum connections to get the best weaponry and armor to his Legions and bypass the Loyalist Legions for the most part?

 

And who's to say that as the Heresy progressed, the Alpha Legion didn't scavenge any suits from the Raven Guard and incorporate it into their Mk V suits which, IIRC, both sides used as the war dragged on to make due for lack of proper repairs.

[Trevak Dal]

Hmm.  They were the LAST legion made, I imagine they got the Production Run of top-of-the line Mk4 Gear, and would have been quick to modify any short comings to the so called mk5 "heresy" pattern(s), and sneak-thiefing any new-hotness Mk6 gear they could find.

 

All that said, despite the Alpha Legion being 'new' and not having any set history or such as the Emperor's Children, Dark Angles, etc, they probably still were based upon the default Legion structure before their Primarch(s) got a hold of them and made them into what they became.

[Kol Saresk]

I'd imagine that they still have some adherence even now. All the Legions do. Just because a Legion a specialized, signature tactic didn't mean that when they came to fortress they called in the Iron Warriors and waited for the closest IV Legion fleet to move in. No, they used their own artillery to bust it open. Just because the Alpha Legion has infiltrators doesn't mean all every Marine did was infiltrate. There are few records of them going toe-to-toe in a "conventional" engagement. Like when they made the Orks go running in Fear to Tread. I still want to know what planet-sized object they blew up and how they did it.

[mysteriousmaskedmystery]

I'd imagine that they still have some adherence even now. All the Legions do. Just because a Legion a specialized, signature tactic didn't mean that when they came to fortress they called in the Iron Warriors and waited for the closest IV Legion fleet to move in. No, they used their own artillery to bust it open. Just because the Alpha Legion has infiltrators doesn't mean all every Marine did was infiltrate. There are few records of them going toe-to-toe in a "conventional" engagement. Like when they made the Orks go running in Fear to Tread. I still want to know what planet-sized object they blew up and how they did it.

 

this is the point i've been trying to make.  the alpha legion were still space marines.  they are not imperial assassins.  they still fight real battles and that they aren't really special in that regard so why would their armor or procurement be different.

 

that being said, the weekender photos do show AL in mark VI, which really shouldn't have been issued until after istvaan.  if mark V wasn't developed until after the heresy kicked off, how could a unit have had mark VI before isvtaan?

 

still, depending on how you want to read the fluff/HH books, it seems like all the legions were made before any of them left terra.  the space marines are now part of the terran unification war and the word bearers at least specifically took part in it.  so the AL wasn't made like a century after all the other legions left earth.  they began the crusade in mark II like everyone else and probably have some still in service at the time of the heresy.

[Kol Saresk]

I'll respond backwards. Sounds weird but it is easier for me that way. As far as I know, they didn't participate in the Unification Wars of Terra, just Terra's home star system. It's more like a redefining of the term to not only include Humanity's homeworld, but its moon and every other colony within the Sol system.

 

But you are right, there is a weir impression being given and it can screw a little with someone. Forgeworld does and does not help to correct this perception.

 

For the Mark VI, Deliverance Lost does state that the Mark VI had been in development before Istvaan since production of the Mk IV began. Originally it was supposed to be the Mk V. From the same book, we also know that prototypes were tested in battle but we don't know if it was just the Raven Guard or others as well. Now, it also states that the Imperial Fists secured a shipment of Mk VI suits when they went to Mars and that shipment happened to be delivered to the Raven Guard. While they were currently being infiltrated by Omegon and Co.

 

Now granted, the first FW book covered Istvaan III. The Second covers four of the Legions(pics on Forgeworld suggest Night Lords and Salamanders, rumors also suggest Word Bearers and Iron Hands). The third book is rumored to show Iron Warriors, Raven Guard and Alpha Legion.

 

The thing about the Heresy books is that they aren't just for the specific event they detail, but also events afterward. Since there is already an event in which the Alpha Legion had access to the Mk VI, or at least its design schematics. I'm not saying they should have Mk VI, just that they do have access to it and since Mars is far not the only forgeworld capable of producing Power Armour(Deliverance Lost, Know No Fear, as well as anything with Praetor-variant Mk V) it is possible they could manufacture their own.

 

As for the last point, apologies. I misunderstood what you were saying. I thought you were saying that the Alpha Legion shouldn't have Mk IV, not that they shouldn't have more than Mk IV, so for that I apologize. But yes, they should use the proper armor as the situation dictates.

 

I think I've hit up everything.

[Excessus]

I'll just reply with this image from HH weekender:

 

http://i1276.photobucket.com/albums/y471/Demon2027/image_zps0b9276b0.jpg

[Kol Saresk]

Yeah, I think that might be the picture mysteriousmaskedmystery was referring to.