Deathwing or Grey Knights?

[KnightOfBAAL]

ok so ive been researching for months now and ive been trying to decide which armies to pick so i dont waste my limited funds

 

Ive decided on a terminator based army list so i was naturally drawn to deathwing but what of Grey Knights?

 

Im just wondering which is better for a new player to start or if its more on preference of chapter and models, and can they both havve fun competitive lists that people wont hate me for?

[Pbenner]

I actually have collected both armies.  At this point, only my Deathwing is seeing any paint, but I've played both.  

 

GK has a much smaller model count and the benefit of a few different toys (Nemesis Dread Knights), but Deathwing gets Deathwing Assault, Missiles, and Stormshields cheap.

 

I'd say you're probably about even on how those two wash out power wise.  

 

With GK, you're going to make all the Nid players cry, if that matters.  Those "I sink 1 wound, your MC Dies!" turns suck for them.

 

Just some thoughts.

 

Paul

[jeremy1391]

Toe to toe deathwing will destroy grey knights, in 6th edition ap2 is a huge deal, power fist vs nemesis force sword/halberd/falchion power fist wins. Paladins are cool but still get Gib'd by fists we have deathwing knights who will kill the crap out of anything in hand to hand and are pretty cheap to boot.

 

Grey knights do get cooler toys like psych/rad grenades, storm ravens, dread knights, but we get banners, venerable land raiders, black knights (which have rad grenades) also a dark talons bomb does wonders to make initiative 4 things initiative 1 for a turn also deathwing are just awesome fluff wise!

 

Toe to toe deathwing will destroy grey knights, in 6th edition ap2 is a huge deal, power fist vs nemesis force sword/halberd/falchion power fist wins. Paladins are cool but still get Gib'd by fists we have deathwing knights who will kill the crap out of anything in hand to hand and are pretty cheap to boot.

 

Grey knights do get cooler toys like psych/rad grenades, storm ravens, dread knights, but we get banners, venerable land raiders, black knights (which have rad grenades) also a dark talons bomb does wonders to make initiative 4 things initiative 1 for a turn also deathwing are just awesome fluff wise!

[facmanpob]

Why not do both and collect a Deathwing primary detachment with Grey Knight allies?

 

That way you get to run things like a Psifleman (good unit but mainly I just like saying the word) :)

[KnightOfBAAL]

Thanks for responding!!!!!!

 

 

i would like to have more soldiers on the fields and from what yall (Texan) are saying i should go with deathwing 

 

but i was also lookin at GW website and i cant see terminators in the dark angels wection except for the command squad which is mor expensive than the grey knights....Am i looking in the wrong place??

 

 

my main concern is having a well balanced army that can take on all comers and id prefer a shooty terminator army seems fun

[KnightOfBAAL]

nvm found it

[Artemid]

On the other hand do remember that Grey Knight terminators keep their stormbolters when swapping weapons around, and I believe can pay not a lot of points to make them S5. They also still (I think, friend plays, I don't) have access to Psycannons and Incinerators, neither of which are shabby.

[KnightOfBAAL]

i guess my main question is which is more shooty 

 

with the banners the dark angels get they can pump out massive amounts of firepower.

 

but the grey knights i believe were supposed to be a shooty army until the enemy gets close up

[KnightOfBAAL]

i can get 

 

 

1x Lord Kaldor Draigo (resin)

1x Brother-Captin Stern (metal)

1x Castellan Crow (metal)

1x Librarian with force stave (resin)

1x Inquisitor Coteaz (metal)

 

1x Venerable Dreadnought with assault cannon/forge world autocannon (magnitized) 

10x Paladins gear as shownith

1x Vindicare Assassin

 

19x Grey Knights gear as shown (4 w/ magnetized options)

 

2x Rhino/Razorback with custom made assault cannon

 

1x Nemesis Dreadknight with heavy incinerator, gatling psilencer & nemesis greatsword

1x Land Raider Crusader/Redeemer (magnetized options)

 

1x 5th Edition Codex

1x Foam Case for infantry

Box Containing most of the Bits for the army 

 

 

 

 

for 600 maybe less or a dark angels deathwing army for 150 more   this is why im wondering

 

it looks like all have standard equip

[Artemid]

i guess my main question is which is more shooty 

 

with the banners the dark angels get they can pump out massive amounts of firepower.

 

but the grey knights i believe were supposed to be a shooty army until the enemy gets close up

 

The Banner of Devastation does not affect storm bolters, so it would be useless for a Terminator force.

[Cactus]

Deathwing.

[KnightOfBAAL]

so do deathwing excel at cc or shooting or a mix?

 

id like to have is where somw stay back and shoot then belial and a squad get to the other side and use his beacon to bring in the cc termies

[Brother dean]

<----  I might be biased... 

 

i guess my main question is which is more shooty 

 

with the banners the dark angels get they can pump out massive amounts of firepower.

 

but the grey knights i believe were supposed to be a shooty army until the enemy gets close up

 

The Banner of Devastation does not affect storm bolters, so it would be useless for a Terminator force.

But it does affect hurricane bolters on LRCs and the Dark Talon...  Just sayin...

 

so do deathwing excel at cc or shooting or a mix?

 

id like to have is where somw stay back and shoot then belial and a squad get to the other side and use his beacon to bring in the cc termies

 

Both.  But you need to pick your close combats.  

 

 

Also do not overlook the AP2 of a plasma cannon on your termies.  Deathwing also use basic termi kits along with the DW command squad.

 

The DW Mantra:

Concentrate your fire.

Charge on YOUR terms.

Believe in the God Emperor, (and your 2+ save)

[KnightOfBAAL]

what you mean by pick your close combats?

[Brother dean]

It used to be any high initiative unit with power swords.  Now with the AP3 on power swords the meta has shifted to other units.  Now I would say it is "dont charge tarpit squads or high attack squads" like 20 strong guardman squads with a commisar or a large Bezerker squad.

[KnightOfBAAL]

so use shooting to destroy traps and use cc to destroy potential threats?

[TheForgottenAngel]

Deathwing Mantra =

Step 1: Deepstrike in and shoot everything within 40meters dead, like really Dead, so dead that its baby's babies are DEAD!!!

Step 2: If everything is dead select next target and proceed to shoot it dead Dead DEAD!!!

Step 2a: If Step 1 didn't successfully kill everything in 40meters Dead, Proceed to shoot it again...repeatedly.....until it is extremely dead.

Step 2b: If you have successfully shot your target until it was indistinguishable red mush, proceed to assault the red mush and beat it into submission with your powerfist....repeatedly

Step 3: If there is any question on what to do next, refer to Step 1.

 

The Emperor Protects

[KnightOfBAAL]

do regular deathwing terminators have any other equipments than powerfidts and force swords because thats all the GW website says they have

[Pbenner]

"Standard" Deathwing are defaulted to Powerfist and Stormbolter - They can swap to Lightning Claws for free.  They can also pay a small amount for an upgrade to a Chainfist or Thunderhammer//Stormshield.  

 

There are no Force Weapons in a Deathwing Squad.  The Sergeant is required to carry a Powersword and Stormbolter.  

 

Best,

 

Paul

[KnightOfBAAL]

arent hammer shields the best thing to have for CC termies??

 

what options do they have for shooting? or are other units better for that??

 

and if they are what units are best??

[Cactus]

arent hammer shields the best thing to have for CC termies??

 

what options do they have for shooting? or are other units better for that??

 

and if they are what units are best??

 

Deathwing terminator squads can carry a cyclone missile launcher, assault cannon, plasma cannon or heavy flamer. It's worth noting that they don't distinguish between tactical and assault terminators - the Deathwing terminator squad has all the weapon options in one place.

 

Even a 'shooty' Deathwing squad will be full of powerfists on models with 2 attacks and in my experience close combat is where they really shine, largely because there you'll suffer fewer hits that negate their 2+ save and they're fearless. Crusader_weber's 'shoot them, shoot them, punch the remnants' mantra is pretty accurate. If you want dedicated firepower units both dreadnoughts and land raiders work well.

 

Another popular choice is to sprinkle in a few Ravenwing bikes. They bring mobility, more guns and teleport homers. I hear Ravenwing Black Knights are particularly good in this role but I haven't assembled mine yet. Land speeders are another option for mobile and long ranged firepower.

 

All in all I think the Deathwing are a much more interesting force than Grey Knights. In a terminator on terminator fight the Deathwing will often win out. The Grey Knights' extra wound (that they pay points for) counts for nothing when you hit them with S8 AP2 power fists or thunder hammers.

[TheForgottenAngel]

Thanks Cactus, KnightofBAAL keep in mind that its best to shoot and move with Deathwing, DO NOT REMAIN STATIONARY! Shoot, move and communicate (Good old army motto). Your goal is to widdle down your target with withering amounts of stormbolter fire, hope you widdle their numbers to less that your models attacks (ideally 9<), then assault. The trick is not being assaulted during your opponents shooting phase.

 

Follow this and you win!

[Garath]

I'd pick Deathwing.  

 

  Deathwing is both a cool army to play, has lots of options and is fluffy. The army itself can be collected for a very reasonable price considering you can buy both the Dark Vengence and Assault on Black Reach starter set terminators for less then retail on the net:

 

  So a possible to buy list would include:

HQ:

  Belial in any shape or form (either converted or finecast)

  Librarian in terminator armour (an old model available all over the net)

  

  Troops:

  Terminators with Storm bolters and a Cyclone Missile Launcher from Assault on black Reach  (again on the net)

  Terminators with Storm bolters and an Assault Cannon from Dark Vengence ( ditto above)

  A box of new Dark Angel Deathwing Command squad ( used to make again terminators - and you get a ton of bitz)

  A standard  assault Terminator squad (as you get Lightning Claws and Thunder hammers )

 

  Elites:

   Dreadnought from AOBR (stick twin lasscannons on it and use it as a mortis dreadnought for skyfire and interceptor)

 

  We are roughly at 1700 pts

 

   And you have an army to play with for less then 150 bucks.

 

  You can easly add stuff later- some more dreadnoughts, or a land riader (or 2)

[Shiodome]

you're asking whether to take DA's or grey knights in a DA subforum.  there's gonna be a bias... ask somewhere with a wider focus, (i.e other more general subforums here, or another forum entirely).

[facmanpob]

I'll just reiterate what I said near the top of the page as I think it got lost in a flurry of posts.......take both!

 

A Deathwing Primary Detachment with GK allies opens up some interesting options. :)