The Sons of Cruor - a Blood Angel successor.

[Aqui]

EDIT:I have put the original post into a spoiler, as I didn't leave the first post for the actual IA Hopefully, this will stop it from causing confusion when I add in the actual body of work. I have deliberately left inserting BBCode until such time that I am re-acquainted with it and I am satisfied that I have something worth prettying up.

So, as part of my involvement in the "Emperor needs you project" I am working out the details for a new DIY Chapter. It's going to be slow going as I have an ETL vow with the Ultramarine subforum (yes, yes, I know...), real life and other stuff taking their due in my time.

Anyway, the following paragraph hopefully gives some indication as to the direction I want them to go:

"We stand aghast at what the Imperium has become, and worse we feel utter disgust at ourselves. We are a mere shadow of our heritage, a wound healing too slowly. We are sons of Sanguinius, we keep our darkest thoughts in check, but why is it thus? Why do we dream the dark dreams? What is our honoured father trying to tell us? Do we deny our curse, and eventually fail, screaming heresies? Or do we succumb and find a ray of hope in the darkest of times?"

Not much I know, but hopefully I can break it down a little further.

As far as I know, all "official" Blood Angel successors (the Lamenters are, as ever a grey area) suffer from both the Black Rage and the Red Thirst. No exceptions. They all, to differing extents resist succumbing to their effects and losing themselves to it. The "hook" for my DIY is, that they are seriously considering "letting go", brakes off full force just giving in.

Why? (Especially as Khorne waits over *there* and is not the kind of warp entity who takes "no" for an answer...)

Because they truly believe that Sanguinius wants them too. Because if they give in to the madness, they will punch through to the other side and become that which they (and all BA/successors) wish for. Balance. In peace with themselves, to have mastered the rage and thirst and made those insanities fall away. I'm not sure if the mental imagery is apt, but think of it as a mental metamorphosis. Giving in is the cocoon, after which they emerge new and whole. Still haven't worked out why they haven't done so already yet. Perhaps the Chapter is divided by the "meanings" of the dreams they have?

Perhaps that isn't a decent mental image, but hopefully it'll give an idea of what I mean.

I've spent some time thinking of a new way of presenting a BA successor. Hopefully, I might be on to something.

What they might look like:

Sons of Cruor - Facing their curse, embracing their birthright.

FOUNDING: .................. Twenty-seventh.

CHAPTER WORLD: .............Cruor.

FORTRESS MONASTERY: ........[insert name]

GENE-SEED (PREDECESSOR): ... Blood Angels - specific genitor unknown.

KNOWN DESCENDANTS: .........NONE.

Origins:

The Imperium was, by the end of the 41st Millennium desperate. Its borders breached by Xenos in many areas, strife on many supposedly loyal planets and outright rebellion on those who weren't. It was at this time, the High Lords of Terra took the drastic move to formally create new Chapters specifically to bolster the Imperium, to stave off the shadows cast by those who would undermine it. The Chapters themselves were pressed into conflict from the outset, the great and good wishing to show a strong hand to those who would dare oppose them. Many Chapters were, by their nature, and gene-line, successful, their progenitors offering support and guidance where needed, forging strong bonds with them and others created within the same Founding. The Sons of Cruor, however, struggled, their own progenitors already stretched to breaking point. However, after some difficulty, they were able to perform effectively, their tactics mirroring those of most, if not all sons of Sanguinius.

Why the gene-line of the Blood Angels was chosen at all, is a topic of debate, although such discussions are in hushed tones or kept within the bounds of sealed mandates.

Within the space of fifty years they had managed to regain [insert reasonable number of planets] and had accompanied other more established Chapters to act as support, whilst their own numbers slowly rose to full Chapter status. To a few observers, it was unclear why it took the Chapter so long to reach full strength, the Sons themselves refusing to comment on the issue.

The reason was darker than even the most suspicious could think of.

The Rapture, and what followed.

Organised in much the same way as their progenitor, it was inevitable the Chapter would have to form a Death Company to house those who had become afflicted by the Curse. This was known as the Rapture by the Chapter, a bitterly ironic term to begin with, as the afflicted felt anything but. Their minds, reliving the fate of their Primarch over and over, were shattered, leaving mindless creatures wishing only to rend and tear and worse, to eat the very flesh of the enemy and comrades alike. Those who felt its embrace were taken away from their Brothers, their armour repainted a dull gold colour to mimic that of Sanguinius' own sublime armour. It was but only a few decades until the Death Company reached a demi-company, the Chapter itself unable to recruit adequate initiates fast enough to replace losses. Upon a battlefield lost to history, one Marine would change the Chapters' preconceptions about the Rapture. His own actions would divide it's members, and set events that could spell the Chapter's doom.

The Marine who cannot die.

One Marine within the Death Company has attained the longest membership within the Chapter's history. His name is lost, for he no longer remembers or acknowledges it, but he is the second of many thousands who have become afflicted by both the Red Thirst and Black Rage and survived it. No one knows how he accomplished this feat, save that instead of resisting and refusing to succumb to it, he instead embraced it, pushing his mind further and further into madness, until he was able to attain a measure of peace on the other side. Whilst he is lucid enough out of combat, in battle he is an elemental force, a rallying point to others within the Death Company and a source of inspiration to those who have resisted the Rapture for so long. There are many within the Chapter who feel that it is inevitable to fall to it, and that it would be far better to accept it within themselves than to deny it. It is felt that their Primarch has willed this be done and in battle will drive themselves to the forefront, their screams of hatred whipping them to greater heights of battle lust. It is not uncommon for many Marines to succumb in the midst of battle, attaining the ultimate state of being - the final moments of their father. To a small group, growing in number, this behaviour is believed to be dangerous and that the Angel would want them to resist, that to willingly allowing the Rapture to take them is against everything Sanguinius stood for. Both sides have tried to bend the ear of the current Chapter Master, to make their point of view his.

So far, he has remained neutral in this matter.

Homeworld:

Cruor is a relatively small deathworld, with an estimated population of no more than [insert amount]. The planet is, for the most part a jungle world, its surface covered by some of the deadliest flora and fauna within the local system. Whilst the natives are not savages, they have lost much knowledge the original settlers brought with them. Weapon-smithing is taught at an early age, with juveniles required to make a weapon of choice for their marking of adulthood. The Chapter has their stronghold at the centre of the main continent, built within the mountain range that splits it in two. The natives on both sides nervously look skyward, knowing that they are forever being watched.

Combat discipline:

As a successor of the fabled Blood Angels, they favour close combat, increasing numbers eager to allow the Rapture to take them in battle. The Chapters' Death Company is unusual in that it is somewhat larger than that of other successors, the numbers of those who have succumbed to the supposed words of Sanguinius slowly increasing. To counter this, recruitment drives are increased every year. So far, it has staved off the Chapters short fall, but it is only a matter of time until the Chapter falls far below that of 1000 Marines.

The Death Company itself is organised around the unnamed Marine, who has taken the moniker of [insert something cool, maybe suble]. He acts as an inspiration to those who have heeded the Rapture, administers discipline to those who are too far gone in blood lust and administers last rights to those who have fallen in battle.

Beliefs:

The Chapter is divided by the belief that Sanguinius wishes them to completely embrace the Red Thirst and Black Rage, that by accepting it, they can master it and regain both themselves and a measure of their Primarchs' strength. The majority drive themselves daily to trigger the last moments of their Primarch, feeling it is the only way that all sons of the Angel can truly be worthy of the name. There is a small, but growing group who feels the opposite, having seen many willingly sacrifice themselves, all but one failing. This group have even dared to state that the unnamed Marine himself has failed. Those who are vocal with this point of view have not yet explained how so. In any case, the unnamed Marine is the only member of the Chapter to have survived the Rapture in some form.

Gene-seed:

As successors of the Blood Angels, their gene-line is as pure as theirs. The unusually long life span of those not inducted to the Death Company (save the unnamed Marine) is just as pronounced as the Scions of Baal.

Battle cry:

"The Angel calls, Brothers! How do you answer?"

"With blood! With Honour! With sacrifice!"

[Conn Eremon]

Sounds intriguing to me. Is their hope founded on something more tangible? What leads them to believe there is a potential for a bright side if they cave in?

 

Or are they growing so weary of it that they have latched onto a fabrication, a hope that they are not truly failing themselves, their liege or their father, as they simply lose the will to fight the curse?

 

And what is this "Emperor needs you" project?

 

EDIT: Not particularly thrilled by the paint scheme. Extremely Imperial Fist-y, and all gold is a bit pretentious and gaudy.

[Aqui]

ANd what is this "Emperor needs you" project?

The correct title of the project is "Your Emperor needs you - 27th Founding project". It's in the WIP forum and is basically a "what if" style collaboration. If there was a 27th Founding, which Chapters would be in it? I misunderstood and submitted my Amber Dragons, but when I realised, my thought turned to trying to make a Blood Angel successor

Sounds intriguing to me. Is their hope founded on something more tangible? What leads them to believe there is a potential for a bright side if they cave in?

Or are they growing so weary of it that they have latched onto a fabrication, a hope that they are not truly failing themselves, their liege or their father, as they simply lose the will to fight the curse?

Good questions and ones I haven't fleshed out (pun intended) yet. One idea is that an increasing number of Sons are haunted by dreams of a shadowy figure telling them that to be at peace, they have to "let go". I could keep it ambiguous and let the reader decide whether it is Sanguinius or whether Khorne is being sneaky. Perhaps a notable member of the Chapter (or a lowly Brother) succumbs to the Black Rage/Red Thirst and is able to regain control of himself. Perhaps he was the first to get these dreams and prompts others to be more receptive to them. This could then result in others become more in control. Or perhaps this individual is secretly corrupted by Khorne and knows the best way of turning the Chapter is by subtler means than "MAIM! KILL! BURN!" (and is the fabrication you mentioned).

If I get it right both could happen. To the Chapter at large, the dreams represent Sanguinius telling them that salvation is to let go, when in reality, it's one (or more) corrupted Marines tainting the minds of the others by giving them false hope, and securing their souls to the Blood God.

I'd prefer the Chapter to remain Loyalist, but if it comes to it, I don't mind it too much if they are on the road to damnation...

[Octavulg]

Aquilanus, if I saw one more Blood Angel successor that was focused on purity and angelicness, I was going to hurt someone. So you just made my week.

 

I must say that I'm not a huge fan of the colour scheme (assuming it's yellow. If it's gold, I like it better but would prefer something halved or otherwise all neat). The idea is awesome, though, and I look forward to seeing more of it.

 

I don't think much justification is needed. The Black Rage is, after all, the Marine literally reliving the life of Sanguinius. Clearly getting closer to that is a good thing. And Mephiston passed through it, and look how he turned out. QED.

[Conn Eremon]

If I had read that a couple weeks ago, I'd have been all thumbs up. Having read the new Chaos Daemons 'dex though, it sounds decidedly non-Khornate. Khorne would hate who ever did that.

 

I think it would be better to leave mysterious conspirators out of it, though the whole "one Marine snaps out of it and goes 'Hey guys, check it out!'" idea is cool.

[Aqui]

Aquilanus, if I saw one more Blood Angel successor that was focused on purity and angelicness, I was going to hurt someone. So you just made my week.

I must say that I'm not a huge fan of the colour scheme (assuming it's yellow. If it's gold, I like it better but would prefer something halved or otherwise all neat). The idea is awesome, though, and I look forward to seeing more of it.

I don't think much justification is needed. The Black Rage is, after all, the Marine literally reliving the life of Sanguinius. Clearly getting closer to that is a good thing. And Mephiston passed through it, and look how he turned out. QED.

I decided a long time ago, that if I ever did a DIY Blood Angel successor, they'd be..dirtier The colour scheme is supposed to be gold, and I intentionally wanted to stay well away from the typical red and black that BA successors have. I did consider blue, but I could find a shade that I liked the look of. Cruor is another word of coagulating blood (I wanted the word to have a deeper meaning - if all Sons of Sanguinius were collectively a wound, then perhaps the Sons of Cruor were the clotting agent...), so I suppose I could have a very dark red (almost black), but I'd need to find a shade that I like. Were it not for the fact that my hands are about as steady as two porcupines on their wedding night, I'd have definitely gone for a halves colour scheme, as I love 'em!. Mind you, that doesn't stop me from halving top/bottom, rather than left/right

I kinda wanted to explore more of what we can only assume that Mephiston went through, and kinda went all the way through to potential Khorne worshippers. I think I might back up from that and work more in the area that Mephiston was/is in.

Glad you like the idea!

If I had read that a couple weeks ago, I'd have been all thumbs up. Having read the new Chaos Daemons 'dex though, it sounds decidedly non-Khornate. Khorne would hate who ever did that.

I think it would be better to leave mysterious conspirators out of it, though the whole "one Marine snaps out of it and goes 'Hey guys, check it out!'" idea is cool.

Yeah, it's probably for the best

I'll have a quick think and see if I can't get a little more done before trying to get some sleep!

[Conn Eremon]

Cruor I think is also more tied to bloodshed, while sanguis is more lifeblood.

 

Maybe we are only seeing the very beginning stages, and the outcome, whatever it is, is in the unseen future.

[Aqui]

Cruor I think is also more tied to bloodshed, while sanguis is more lifeblood.

I'm no expert on Latin words, but this site is where I got the definition from. But words are mutable

Maybe we are only seeing the very beginning stages, and the outcome, whatever it is, is in the unseen future.

Do you mean the IA focuses on the Chapter starting to have this "epiphany"? Perhaps, I'm open to suggestions in any case

Two more colour schemes I'm considering:

Not very imaginative, but still I had to use both versions of the painter and the quartered one would only allow colour to be added if I selected from the GW colour list, hence the colours seem to be...cartoonish. However, if I use that scheme, the red will be darker.

[Conn Eremon]

I like the second, if the red from the first is used.

 

As for the IA, how you place the focus is up to you. But if you're concerned or unsure about where they will finally end up , you can put that point somewhere past 999.M41.

[Aqui]

I like the second, if the red from the first is used.

As for the IA, how you place the focus is up to you. But if you're concerned or unsure about where they will finally end up , you can put that point somewhere past 999.M41.

I kinda want the Chapter to be mid decision - i.e. they have gotten to the point where one half wants to "go for it", the other half wishing to stay their hand, grit their teeth and bare it. Whilst I don't want outright conflict over it, I think that if the tension is high, with both sides almost coming to blows, that would be where they are "now".

Going back to the dreams - I think that a rank and file Marine has a particularly vivid one and he confides in a Sanguinary Priest. He then takes the matter higher, as the history of Mephiston is known well enough for the dreams to have a certain credence. Over time, the Chapters' ranks experience more and more of them until the Chapter Master feels that this is the direction the Chapter has to go. Not wants to. Has to.

Forget that - decided that the decision is going to be Chapter-wide.

Another colour scheme. I kinda like this one. It's a reversal of the Flesh Tearers. The idea is that the colours merge from top to bottom, but I can't blend to save my life :lol: The leg colour isn't black, more an extremely dark red.

Haven't got a clue what heraldry to give them yet either...

[Conn Eremon]

Might be good to keep some tension within the Chapter, even if it's something they've worked past.

 

Ooh, ooh! A blood droplet with a circular saw inside. And one blends into the other!

 

Actually, a blood droplet with an absence in the shape of a saw would look cool, and look eerily similar to a Chaos Star.

 

If you have the Flesh Tearers be your original training cadre and founding officers, it could explain the similarities in iconography and heraldry, as well as your Chapter's particular struggle with their curse.

[Aqui]

Might be good to keep some tension within the Chapter, even if it's something they've worked past.

Ooh, ooh! A blood droplet with a circular saw inside. And one blends into the other!

Actually, a blood droplet with an absence in the shape of a saw would look cool, and look eerily similar to a Chaos Star.

If you have the Flesh Tearers be your original training cadre and founding officers, it could explain the similarities in iconography and heraldry, as well as your Chapter's particular struggle with their curse.

Oooh! A good idea! That way I get to scratch the itch I have of painting Flesh Tearers! (I could have the command cadre still wearing Flesh Tearers iconography and should I actually do this Chapter I can cheat make use of their shoulder guards ) Flesh Tearers are well known for their tendency to succumb to BL and RT, so a Chapter descended from them and wanting to just let go is a logical continuation.

I suppose you might be right about the tension, but I wanted to avoid focusing too much on it. Sometimes I get far to involved in things that aren't important (as Octavulg knows ). Thanks to you both for the help, I have a good feeling about this!

[Conn Eremon]

The Flesh Tearers are known for their tendency to succumb to the Black Library and Rogue Trader? :p

 

IT just seems unlikely that there wouldn't be some tension. I mean, the curse is a huge deal. There is going to be some who don't follow the Chapter's new path. Doesn't need to be a focus though, just something I wanted to point out.

 

And no problem!

[Octavulg]

While I love the Flesh Tearers, they're both very busy falling apart and rather unreliable. I have a hard time seeing them get tapped for training cadre.

[Aqui]

While I love the Flesh Tearers, they're both very busy falling apart and rather unreliable. I have a hard time seeing them get tapped for training cadre.

I'm not sure when the Flesh Tearers woes start. I'll have to find out what the time frame is (as in is it a "recent" thing or did their trouble start a significant time ago, and the effects are just being felt?). In any case, well, I envisioned one of the following ways of going forward with this.

 

One: The Flesh Tearers recall the Training Cadre, because the Chapter is really against the wall. Before they leave, they give the Sons of Cruor a few words of warning (i.e. some rather cryptic clues about the Red Thirst and Black Library) that they should heed.

 

Two: The Flesh Tearers send word that they have been recalled. The Training Cadre refuse, stating that their own Chapter is doomed and that all efforts should be made to "save" this one before it even needs saving.

 

Three: The training Cadre sends word that they are going to return to the Flesh Tearers. Instead, they are told that under no circumstances are they to return. Reluctantly, they heed this decree, and impart their own Chapters' fate. I'm thinking that if I go with this, that the visions should start either around the same time or not long after.

 

I'm kinda leaning towards number two. Most Marines within the Flesh Tearers know that they are doomed, and that it's a case of when they fall rather than if.

 

EDIT: Just been reading up on Blood Angel history and the Conclave in particular. Would it be a leap too far if besides asking successors to submit neophites for rebuilding the BA themselves, that an additional tithe be requested by all successors to give a portion of gene-seed to create another Chapter? Perhaps the Sons of Cruor have a more stable version of the genetic code (such as it is), but the Flesh Tearers submit a few Marines to act as a training cadre on the condition that they return to the Chapter when the Sons are able to stand on their own?

[Fuegann]

I'm very keen to see how you work out the dichotomy of the chapter; there is the morality aspect of what they're doing (if they realise that releasing themselves to the Flaw is tantamount to Khornite ways then perhaps it is traitorous), versus the practicality of letting go and whether they eventually become gibbering wrecks unable to function as a coherent fighting force. It's a very interesting concept and plays nicely into the Blood Angels set up of seeing mankind's capacity for folly and destruction - they'll obviously recognise this in themselves. The way the Blood Angels fluff is written suggests that this gives them more nobility than other chapters and allows a greater understanding of the human psyche.

I think you're right to have the chapter question the dreams they have, or perhaps the gene-seed is a bit more stable (somehow) than other Blood Angels gene-stock, so when they give in to the Flaw they don't go "as far" as other chapters? This might be a bit of a cop-out and certainly dilutes the rage for the sake of maintaining a status quo.

Perhaps the metamorphosis is a natural part of being long-lived (if you use this aspect of the Blood Angels gene-seed), and the onset of the Black Rage actually takes part so far into a marine's natural life that this is why not all have given in to it to be reborn, as most of the chapter will not have reached an age where it affects them. I mean, statistically, it must be a fraction of battles where marines are overcome by the Black Rage. Given how many battles they must take part in, if three or four marines fell to it before each battle, the whole chapter would quickly fall (imagine say 50 battles per solar year would mean the loss of 150-200 seasoned marines per year). I can't see a recruitment process being able to keep up with that. If a seasoned marine fell to the Black Rage before battle, fought through it and made it through to the other side having willingly let go, then perhaps they then have a unique insight into its nature and can be more useful to the higher organisation of the chapter.

It certainly re-writes some of the established Blood Angels canon, but I think it's right to question and explore this point, as it's something that doesn't quite make sense to me as it is, so I'm looking forward to see how you develop further. I'm also keen because I'm working on a similar aspect for my own DIY chapter, except that it is seen as a great dishonour to fall to the Black Rage so you and I seem to be approaching the same issue from opposing angles. And you incorporated the name of my homeworld into your chapter name .

[Conn Eremon]

I believe the Flesh Tearers particular problems have been with them since the beginning, though there has been a scale of escalation. Fear to Tread showed the Blood Angel Legion Captain and Company from which the Flesh Tearers eventually originate show similar symptoms in advance to their fellow brothers. However, I don't see the problem with their use. We can assume certain guidelines around how training cadres are chosen but as far as I know there is no source to support them. They're just assumptions. Feel free to assume something different.

 

As for the gene-seed tithe, it really goes against established Chapter foundings. The AdMech have the gene-seed, the High Lords give the order and it's all coalesced into a numbered Founding and consists of more than one Chapter. The one exception to this was just that. An exception. Though I'm sure the Blood Angels hold equal if not more authoritative weight than the Dark Angels, I wouldn't go that route.

 

And honestly, it sounds wonky and unnecessary to try for a special founding of more pure gene-seed. Tries too hard, I think. Better, I think, to just choose a Founding and Blood Angels gene-seed that isn't outside the BA norm.

[Octavulg]

The Flesh Tearers have had problems since the beginning, and these problems have escalated over time. Though since you're the 27th Founding, the past century or so is what's logically of concern. I don't think they'd make it to the point of BEING the training cadre - they're too unstable, and the High Lords'd see it that way (frankly, there shouldn't really be a BA successor at all at this late date). I don't think making them a special geneseed snowflake would be an improvement, either.

 

I'd just use the iconography. It's nice iconography.

[Aqui]

Quite a few decent points, and well put ^_^

 

I think I'll skirt around the issue of which Chapter their Gene seed came from for now and the training cadre (It might be better to start once they've become established and not go into their specific origins at all), and concentrating on the meat of the sandwich - the "Do we let go or not" thing.  If I get too bogged down with details, then I'll never get anywhere :lol:

 

Thanks again to all ^_^

[Heru]

Aquilanus, on 27 May 2013 - 00:56, said:

Not very imaginative, but still I had to use both versions of the painter and the quartered one would only allow colour to be added if I selected from the GW colour list, hence the colours seem to be...cartoonish. However, if I use that scheme, the red will be darker.

Use: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/smpbeta9.php

The regular painter is all bugged to hell (IE10 can't select anything, and Firefox can only select GW colours as you said).

[Aqui]

Thanks! ^_^  For the life of me, I couldn't find that version anywhere :blink:  Having seen the revised version, it appeals to me far more than the "reversed Flesh Tearers" scheme, so I'll take a chance and actually try to paint it at some point!  Whilst the Flesh Tearers Chapter symbol is very cool, I'm still looking for something simple (as in something I can paint badly on a shoulder guard :lol: ) but is still cool looking.

 

Haven't seen you around for a while (good to see you ^_^ ), but have you added to the amount of Chapters you've made?  I could swear you had about eight the last time I looked! :lol:

[deathspectersgt7]

Heck brother use all 4 paint schemes.stick with the original back ground .

[Heru]

Thanks! For the life of me, I couldn't find that version anywhere Having seen the revised version, it appeals to me far more than the "reversed Flesh Tearers" scheme, so I'll take a chance and actually try to paint it at some point!

You may want to switch the black and red around first though, so as not to be confused with the Angels Sanguine.

Haven't seen you around for a while (good to see you ),

I am always around, I just rarely deign to speak.

but have you added to the amount of Chapters you've made? I could swear you had about eight the last time I looked!

There is only one new one there (Wolf Knights who replaced the Panther Warriors), the others all existed before, but weren't included in the list due to sig image size constraints.

[Aqui]

Well, I've reversed the colours

The red is a different shade, but near enough I think

Am currently writing (typing) down everything that occurs to me about them for now. Once I have a fair bit, I'll either post as it is and sort it out on forum, or try to edit it first. Hopefully I'll have something substantial soon

[Octavulg]

Nice. Though yellow and black or yellow and red would seem more unique.