1st game against eldar... and 1st learnings...

[Master Avoghai]

Well today was my 1st game against eldar v6 and I'd like to report my observations...

1st my list :

I'm in the way of building a miwwing list. My first one included Sammael on Speeder and a squadron of 5 bikes with 2 flamers. Those have been changed for a whirlwind, an additionnal knight, an additionnal pod marine and a melta bomb for the hunt master.

HQ :

Belial

Techmarine with with harness and bolter/flamer

Elite :

Venerable dread with MM and HF in a drop pod with localization homer.

Troops :

5 termis one with LC, one with CML and chainfist

Tactical squad (9) : flamer, vet sgt with flamer in a drop pod

Tactical squad (10) : ML, PG, rhino

Fast Attack :

Nephilim with Avenger bolter

5 RW knights hunt master with melta bomb, one RWGL

Heavy Support :

Whirlwind

Contemptor dread with CML and Kheres Assault Cannon

Then my opponent :

I have to say that this is a big DA player (must own a 8000 pts army) hence he knows perfectly my weaknesses and forces. But he has to handle with a totally new way of playing.

HQ :

Eldrad (count as Iyanden equivalent )

Seer

Warlocks (6) : 2 with lance (go in the falcon)

Troops :

10 Wraithguards

10 Wraithguards

14 guardians with shucan

Heavy support :

Wraithlord with 2 brightlances and sword

Wraithlord with 2 scatterlasers and sword

Falcon with scatter laser

Terrain, scenario and deployment.:

The scenario was "The Emperor's will" and the deployment was in the diagonals of the table here's the army on deployment.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y50/Masteravoghai/Miscelleanous/F937248D-0CB6-4AF1-B98A-03B76DB7A428-23808-00001E4CF7B324AF.jpg

The eldar formed a line of wraiths with the guardians holding the objectives. I tried to hold mine by splitting my tactical of 10 the WW and my contemptor. The DW planned a DS at turn 2 and the RW knight use their scout move to replace in the wood on my right flank.

We start by a night fight

The game, conclusion, result and analysis :

I won't tell the entire game as I don't remember the whole 6 turns but I will give you the keys.

- 1 Final score : 7-1 for the eldar. The difference seems very large and don't reflect the game. Eldar leaded but not that much. Actually 4-1 is more reflective of the game because my opponent manage to take my objective with one single wraithguard... Actually the last 2 phase of shooting with my contemptor was a bit unlucky as my opponent lost only 1 wraith guard in 2 phases of shooting... Yes they had rerollable 3+/4++ but still...

-2 Belial is really a killer with sword and storm bolter : he killed a charging wraithlord in a single round of CC (3A=>3hitson 3+=>3wounds AP3 on 2+). The key against such army is to profit from the precision shot : the seer has just T3 2W 4+ so if you manage to hit him it's very easy to take him down.

-3 It's essential to kill the seer as he can give a 2+ save to the guards... 3+ guards are just flesh for Belial and CML... 2+ guards are much harder to deal with.

-4 In a general note, such Iyanden army is not unplayable if played with a normal Farseer... but with Eldrad who knows ALL the spells + generates extra Warp charge on a 5+ each time he passes a spell... Gah... Only way : charge and challenge him but even with that... It will be tough

-5 I made the same error with my knights today as with my nephilim the last game : I engage them close from the enemy too fast... Problem : last game with the knight I didn't pay this back because it was agains guards and that they were supported by the dread and the poded squad. Here they were alone. They passed the entire game to flee from the D-cannons and I lost my Hunt master by a over heat whereas he was in charge range from the flacon with its melta bomb... I should have deployed them on the other flank, use my first turn to redeploy + turboboost and then I should have been able to decide who I can shoot at and who I'll charge.... Here it was the exact opposite : my opponent always had the leading and I just had to remove the losses. Sometimes it's better to lose the first turn to keep the initiative the next turns...

-6 I really evolve concerning the Nephilim : 8 shoots on 2+ (3 reroll) with high S weapon really helps to saturate and the opponent always fears that this may take him on the rear...

-7 As I expected the rhino was useless... But didn't have enough points for a RZB. I think I'll drop the homer of the pod as the rules of the drop pod are really protective concerning the DS incidents... That way, I'll get enough point for a 6th knights and therefore a 2nd RWGL.

[Stormtrooper-VII]

So the Nephilim actually performed decently despite the high points cost? Anyway, sounded like a good game despite the loss.

[Master Avoghai]

Yeah the Nephilim performed well though it was not the best army to use it against (but with my opponent we try to make all comer lists).

 

Wraithguards don't like weapons of S5-6 with high rate of fire because it just looks like marines suffering bolter shoots... + If I had been able to keep my bikes I would have been able to lower the T =>more 3+ saves to make.

Moreover, this forces him to move the falcon in a certain way in order not to expose the rear... 

 

Against his IG (high infantry) army it would have been even more useful of course, so in the average the Nephilim with avenger bolter may become an interesting choice.

[Gillyfish]

Sounds like a fun game Avoghai, even if it was a less (and props to you for posting about a loss. :)

 

So do you think your list was the issue, the way you used it, bad luck or a combination? What might you take next time if you faced the same list? Would a libbie help against Eldrad at all?

[Master Avoghai]

Sounds like a fun game Avoghai, even if it was a less (and props to you for posting about a loss.

So do you think your list was the issue, the way you used it, bad luck or a combination? What might you take next time if you faced the same list? Would a libbie help against Eldrad at all?

Well you learn more of you losses than from your wins. It was a combination

The list : like I've said, I tried to play an all-comer list. Sure, I would have better result with a full plasma list supported by 2 librarians with divination, but it's not my vision of the game : I try to make polyvalent lists and learn with them.

I think the list is ok except like I've said the rhino/homer issue : they were useless and I don't think they'll find a use in other games... A 6th RWBK would bring me more help IMO.

How I use it : to me I've made 3 errors. The first one was to choose to start. Against an Iyanden army, due to the short range you fear nothing at turn 1 anyway. (be careful of the Seer spell that add 3" to the fleet of foot roll)

The second one was to send my RWBK directly to the enemy at 1st turn. They were alone and again : Wraith have a very limited range hence they won't do any damage at turn 1, so it's better to wait for turn 2 so that you may double plasma and then charge them. With rad grenade, hammer and 4A you may cause hard damage. And in return, they don't have the weapon to arm you much... (after a rapid math-hammer, shoot+charge may cause 7 dead wraith guards, 4 if they get the special inv save spell)

The third error was not to concentrate on the wraithsquad on my left. I had the ven dread that may deal with the guardians so they were already doomed. The combined fire of my poded marines + termis + RWBK would have "finished" them rapidly.

But my opponent made errors too : choosing warlocks was really unuseful (the allocation of spell make them useless because totally random). He charge Belial's squad with a Wraithlord : 3A that hits on 3s with one re roll +fleshbane + AP3 = dead wraithlord.

Bad luck : there was 2 noticeable bad luck rolls

1- the Master of hunt : he was at assault range from the falcon with the melta bom and tried a plasma shot before. One hit, one 1=>reroll : 1 again => save 1 again! At least, the plasma shot manage to drop one HP but still...

2- the last 2 turns of shooting with the contemptor and the tactical : a total of 24 kheres shoots + 4 CML shoots + 3 plasma shoots + 2 ML shots = 2 wraith guard down leaving one survivor holding my objective.

Concerning the libby vs Eldrad... I think it would not help at all. The Eldar's spells may be casted on your units or on the opponent's ones with opposite effect (you may reroll your faile save with your unit OR you force the opponent to reroll sucessful saves). Here my opponent cast the spells on HIS units hence with no chance of nullify it with a libby. I don't think Libby are useful for psychic defense anyway. They are in a Tzeentch or an eldar or a GK army because ALL the squads may have a psyker close from them... but in the case of the other armies, you just gain a little more chance in ONE SINGLE squad...

The only way to deal with Eldrad is to get him in CC and challenge him...

[march10k]

Hmmm....I see an additional factor. You had all five FOC categories filled, and, except for the two tactical squads, no more than one of any given unit type. Your list is a smorgasbord that seems to lack both focus and redundancy. His list, on the other hand, had only three of five FOC categories (no elites or fast attack) filled, had redundancy in both troops and heavy support (hard to have redundant HQ choices, LOL), and, most critical of all, his scoring troops choices were both more numerous AND tougher than yours.

[MadMek83]

Nice observations. Tech Marine sounded off HQ, I'd taken Librarian, since they're pretty darn good. Belial has nice statline but if you don't take more than 1 Terminator Squad, he is bit waisted. Eldars hate Banner of Devastation. That amount dakka it can generate is taking down anything except biggest wraith constructs in Eldar army. I just wondered bit your opponents Wraithlord weaponries. I guess they're fixed since running two BL-SL combo would have been more sensible due Laser lock rule and spread his fire more evenly.

 

Eldard is nasty opponent, tough for Eldar and if he gets death mission, yeah I'd still wouldn't want to go near him then not without terminator armo and / or stormshield anyway. Did your opponent used Iyanden Supplement or regular Codex?

[Master Avoghai]

He used regular codex. 

 

I disagree on most of your points

 

Techmarines are great! servo harness + combi flamer in a drop pod = flamer saturation goodness. + I got a tactical squad with 3+ cover save holding the objective. all of that for 80pts... Librarian wouldn't have helped me more.

 

Belial is good because he won't cost me a lot more than a HQ with mace of redemption AND gives me a tough additional scoring unit. + he allow this unit to arrive right on the enemy objective (or anywhere else I want).

 

As for the lord weaponry my opponent would reply you that 2 shoots of bright lances are always better than 1 re-rollable (particulary when facing a A13 contemptor or -random exemple- march10k double LR list :p )

 

 

Hmmm....I see an additional factor. You had all five FOC categories filled, and, except for the two tactical squads, no more than one of any given unit type. Your list is a smorgasbord that seems to lack both focus and redundancy. His list, on the other hand, had only three of five FOC categories (no elites or fast attack) filled, had redundancy in both troops and heavy support (hard to have redundant HQ choices, LOL), and, most critical of all, his scoring troops choices were both more numerous AND tougher than yours

I see your point but the focus is more on a general point : aggressivity and mobility with DS units + flyer + bikes rather than a type of unit in particular.

 

Added to that, I know that there could be a better choice in lieu of the Nephilim (like another squad of RWBK for example, but I want to learn using this unit because I think there will be a potential before the end of the year because of other flyers release with similar profile. (and the ground saturation potential is fine)

[Darkangeldentist]

Thanks for taking the time to post up your thoughts about the game and facing the new Eldar. A few questions about your list that I'm curious about. Why did you take a veteran sergeant for the flamer tactical squad? Also did you feel that the techmarine was a worthwhile investment? From the list it looked like he might go with the drop pod unit and I've found it rare that I get the chance to repair any vehicles. (Although I am always tempted to try.)

 

Eldrad still seems very nasty but I think he's less auto-include than before, he knows 4 powers rather than all of them and his ability to gain an extra warp charge on a successful power isn't all that reliable. Still horrible but I worry less about him now that the runes aren't nearly as damaging to us.

 

I would still suggest a librarian if you can squeeze him in. The psychic hood isn't great but since many of the eldar powers can target us it is useful and his own powers can help support us enormously.

 

Again, great to hear about your experiences and thank you for the write up.

[Master Avoghai]

Why did you take a veteran sergeant for the flamer tactical squad? Also did you feel that the techmarine was a worthwhile investment? From the list it looked like he might go with the drop pod unit and I've found it rare that I get the chance to repair any vehicles. (Although I am always tempted to try.)

Actually it was NOT a vet sgt but a standard one... Just a mistake when I typed the list :D

 

As for the tech. His role is NOT to repair anything. He's here to bring more firepower to the DPed tactical squad : I get 2 additional flamer templates. Following the alpha target of the squad I may choose to use the bolter-flamers or not when landing. If not I have 4d3 hits in case of charge from my opponent the following turns. This squad is clearly a saturation squad and when you add the rapid fire bolter shots you can even weaken a termi squad without problem.

 

The tech also provide a +1 cover save to my tactical with ML... Which greatly helps.

 

The 2+ save also helped me against IG last game when my opponent shot to the squad with a Leman Russ. As he was the 1st closest from the tank I resolved the 7 hits one by one with the 2+ save => no loss :lol: ( well that was a bit lucky)

 

Eldrad still seems very nasty but I think he's less auto-include than before, he knows 4 powers rather than all of them and his ability to gain an extra warp charge on a successful power isn't all that reliable. Still horrible but I worry less about him now that the runes aren't nearly as damaging to us.

 

I would still suggest a librarian if you can squeeze him in. The psychic hood isn't great but since many of the eldar powers can target us it is useful and his own powers can help support us enormously.

I didn't get lucky then because he got all the powers useful : one that allows to reroll the saves and the one that gives a 4++ save. Hence I faced a squad of 10 wraithguards with 3+/4++ with reroll o_O. He also got the divination power that nullifies cover save... I let you imagine what it did when the ghost cannons arrived at range... The additional charge warp is systematic because he may cast 4 spells (hence 4 rolls) and its on 5+ (hence 1/3 chances)

 

Like I've said before a Libby wouldn't have helped me much. My opponent always casted the benedictions so no way to use the psychic hood. The librarian is fine in a gun line with standard of devastation but here what was the possibility? Place him beside the tactical? To say the truth I've missed maybe one ML shot and 2 plasma shots of whole game. Same thing with the contemptor : my shoots and wounds were perfect 5 wounds per turn... But he succeeded all his saves particularly the 4++ with reroll against rending. Librarian here would have been useless. Really.

[Aegnor]

One thing - it's the warlock powers (Runes of Battle) that you can cast as benedictions/maledictions. The Runes of Fate that Farseers use all only have one mode, so Fortune for example does the re-roll friendly armour saves/deny the witch, but can't be cast on enemy units to make them re-roll their saves.

 

Just in case any of those sneaky xenos try to deceive you brothers. ;)

[Master Avoghai]

Nope he respected the rules. It's me just not understanding the different type of spells ;-)

 

But that gives even more credit to what I've said : you can't dispell what the Farseer casts because it's only benedictions hence Libby is kinda useless

[Cactus]

Actually the Runes of Fate consist of 3 blessings, 2 witchfire and a malediction. But librarians are still pretty worthless for psychic defence.