Sanguinary Guard in 6th Edition

[Fulgens]

Hello, fellow BA players, this is my first post on the B&C in years. I've always played and loved our chapter and I am excited to get back into the hobby. When I looked at the most recent BA Codex, I was intrigued by the Sanguinary Guard. I played a game recently with them, and they wiped out my friend's feared Thunderwolf Cavalry on the turn they charged(!) only to be annihilated by some Sanctioned Psyker rogue heretic with a power that ignores their excellent armor. I fielded this unit:

 

Sanguinary Guard, 4 Glaives Encarmine, 1 power fist, 2 infernus pistols.

 

It seems like this unit is quite versatile, and can deal with most enemies who don't have AP 2 close combat weapons and/or higher initiative. In addition, their weapon options give them significant short-ranged firepower. It seems that they can play multiple roles. So my questions to you all are:

 

1) How should you use the Sanguinary Guard?

 

2) How do they coordinate with the rest of your army?

 

3) What kind of foes do they do well against?

 

4) Weaknesses? Which foes will dispatch them with ease?

 

 

[Leonaides]

1) With Dante, and carefully - small unit sizes mean you cant take too many casualties and still be effective. Its a big glass hammer unit (or should that be big glass scalpel?).

 

2) Depends on the rest of your army - with tac squads they will make a serious counter-assault unit, with other RAS/fast units then they will form the hard hitting unit supported by your other jump troops (use RAS to tie up enemy supporting units to isolate the enemy unit that your Sang Guard want to engage or use the Sang Guard to take out a unit that your RAS have already engaged)

 

3) Anything in Power Armour without an I4 AP2 weapon... On a charge (with priest nearby) you ought to be putting out 6-ish wounds with 3 Glaive swords at I4, then another 4-5 with 2 axes, wiping out a 10-man PA Squad... If you have to throw them at Terminators then you ough to kill 2-3 but you should expect to loose all the Sang Guard in return...

 

4) Tar-pit squads (like IG combined platoons with a few power fists in them) will eat you alive becasue you cant kill them quickly enough, Terminators will kill them, that sort of thing.

[JamesI]

I often use my Sanguinary Guard.

 

I would never use them without Dante, because if they aren't troops, they aren't worth it. 

 

I tend to use them with a fast core army, RAS, Attack bikes.  SG are the hard hitting unit, but really work best against other marines.

[Memento Of Prospero]

The downfall of sanguinary guard is their inflexibility. Limited weaponry, expensive options and unable to increase unit size is just crippling. They have Terminator price tags, but no invulnerable saves, not the same fire power or punch in close combat.

 

So what are they good for?

 

Well, they do a few things well. With Descent of angels, they can reliably deepstrike. They can end up screening for your Assault marines in a jumpers list, and benefit really well from having a priest around. However, plasmaguns are extremely common, so having a libby shielding is a good idea with them.

 

The biggest problem they have is that they are attached to Dante. They need to be troops, otherwise there's just too much competition in the elites department.

[Leonaides]

Wolf_pack - they have a terminator price tag, and against basic weapons have the same survivability, AND HAVE JUMP PACKS... If terminators had an either/or optin of jump packs or 5+ saves then you'd see both being used on a battlefield. Its not necessarily a bad thing (the lack of a 5++ save) but just means you cannot use them in the same way. And honestly who really buys an expensive elite unit just to screen for a cheaper troops unit (thats half the price of the elite unit)? If anything, it should be the other way around so your SG get a cover save or their 2+ armour save and FNP...

[Boomkapow]

People use Corbulo(105? Points) to screen for 8 20 point death company all the time. Not the same thing but still, expensive models screening cheaper models.

[Leonaides]

Who takes an 8 man dc with no upgrades? And that's different in that he has to be part of the unit with an entirely different mechanic involved.

[Office temp]

People use Corbulo(105? Points) to screen for 8 20 point death company all the time. Not the same thing but still, expensive models screening cheaper models.

Perhaps, but that death company is gonna utterly frikken annihilate whatever it hits, which is more than I can say for the nipplewing. Not that I'd use sanguinary guard to screen ASM, I'd actually do it the other way. Use the ASM to screen, soak overwatch, and tie up the target while the Sanguinary Guard deliver the finishing blow.

[Memento Of Prospero]

Wolf_pack - they have a terminator price tag, and against basic weapons have the same survivability, AND HAVE JUMP PACKS... If terminators had an either/or optin of jump packs or 5+ saves then you'd see both being used on a battlefield. Its not necessarily a bad thing (the lack of a 5++ save) but just means you cannot use them in the same way. And honestly who really buys an expensive elite unit just to screen for a cheaper troops unit (thats half the price of the elite unit)? If anything, it should be the other way around so your SG get a cover save or their 2+ armour save and FNP...

 

They do not have access to a 5++/3++ save and are definitly not as survivable and it really shows at short range. Terminators can make up with lack of speed with greater numbers, and more transport access.

 

The ability to screen is a possibility not a static tactical usage. When deepstriking multiple units on a flank, having them run to fan out up from of your formation can be extremely valuable. If someone wants to shoot at them they probably can regardless of their position, why not get a benefit for your squishier units at the same time? 

[Fulgens]

Thanks for the responses so far. It seems like the Sanguinary Guard are like an Eldar Aspect in that they do one thing really well, but are mediocre at all other tasks. So the question becomes "how do they fit into one's army?" 

 

In my 1500-point force, I currently field two Tactical Squads in Rhinos and an Assault Squad without jump packs in a Rhino, two multi-melta/heavy flamer Land Speeders, a commander, a Sanguinary Priest, and a Baal Predator. Given my current collection, I wouldn't take Dante to supplant those troops with more SG. I'd probably use the SG as a counter assault unit if the enemy advances on the Tacticals, or against a defensive enemy I'd advance with Rhinos and Baal and hide the SG behind them as they move forward. Deep striking has always ended poorly for me. Either the deep strikers are out of charge range next turn, or they're too close to an enemy unit that has a plasma gun or two or three. 

 

 

Leonaides, it seems that you field a unit with 3 swords and 2 axes. I assume you take the latter because they can cut through 2+ saves. Why not take a power fist for 10 more points and receive a S value that could threaten vehicles, monstrous creatures, knights, et cetera?

 

Edit: Thanks for the broader discussion about elite combat troops, guys, but let's try to keep this thread on topic. I know that Terminators or Death Company might be a more effective or survivable units, but I'm not really interested in fielding them in my force. I started the thread as a resource for folks who have chosen to take SG, as "sub-optimal" as they are. 

[Boomkapow]

I would say with that list, you could run them behind the tanks and jump in front of them when the tac squads are threatened with a charge. I fell as though there are better options in a list like that.

[Leonaides]

I tend to stick a power fist in the squad for general purpose use just in case, replacing one of the axes, but it depends on what points you have available and is not strictly necessary- ideally you don't want these guys anywhere near the sort of unit that you'd need a power fist for...

[Baba Lem]

I'd run them 3x Sword, Axe, Fist with Pistol - if someone beat me with the blunt end of a power axe into submission.

[Calnus]

Given your current list Fulgens, I'd pass on the SG.  You don't have an assault element worth speaking of, so you'd really rather just shoot people to death.  You can already use the mounted assault marines to charge anything (like guardsmen) that you can beat, but anything that's actually going to worry you (Terminators, MCs, deathstars of all stripes) is going to whip the SG anyways.  Its a lot more points-efficient from where you're at now to just buy more guns.

 

If you want to use the Sanguinary Guard, then you need to be running jump packs and/or Dante, so that you get saturation and become scoring.  And you want to run at least 2 units of SG with a priest.  It becomes a bit of a gimmick list, where you can beat any basic marine (or worse) in assault, but have to shoot Terminators, MCs, and walkers.