Entei Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 I guess you have to see it like you are paying more to get to read it as soon as possible. It's not the full book that is released late, it's the episodes that are released early. Of course, as a customer you always want everything asap. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277404-scars/page/14/#findComment-3424888 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyall Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 Lets try and settle the Night of the Wolf thing: I see no one saying Angron won. What happened is that he is indeed too thick (deliberately, to a certain point) to understand it. Perhaps deep down he sees the lesson Russ tried to teach him, he certainly stopped to hear Russ giving him the verbal smackdown, but he does not care, Angron's the typical brutish, violence-loving thug, a bit like Nelson Muntz. Every now and then you figure he has deeper feelings and is capable of regular thinking, you might even share a powerful moment with him. The next day, though, he'll shove you aside like it never happened and proceed to take your lunch money/head. So you always have a moral high ground on him, but he simply doesn't care since climbing said ground to punch your face is his morning routine. Of course Angron won. Point is he's the only one who doesn't see it. On the Scars: I'm very interested to see how this schism plays out, right now the basis for it seems like it's going to be tied to the Legion's very strict inner workings, its 'soul', since one of Horus' greatest strengths as a general is his valuing of each Legion's nature. One odd thing is the Terran captain liking the Sons of Horus more, so I'm wondering if it's possible that, with the Scars, it's the Terrans that will be on the heretic side. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277404-scars/page/14/#findComment-3424907 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 The Wolf biased are missing what everyone else is saying. We accept the Space Wolves had Angron at their mercy at the end. We do. 100%, there is not a SINGLE World Eater fan who denies it. The tears of the Wolves (and the couple of fanboys here) are over the fact (FACT). 1. Russ came at Angron due to verbal provocation. 2. Russ crawled away after being beaten back. 3. Space Wolves where being killed by World Eaters. We know the lesson Russ tried to teach. We know Angron failed to heed that lesson. We know Lorgar drove the point home and Angron started to see the point. At the scene however, what Wolf fans cant seem to acknowledge is that Angron has a perspective that is unique to himself. He doesnt even want to be a Primarch, he doesnt want to lead a Legion, and if he could find someone who would individually have the power to end him, he would likely cherish the fact. This is a Primarch who much like Cruze, doesnt want to live at times. Did the Wolves have Angron 'by the balls'? YES. Did the Wolves out think the World Eaters? YES. Did RUSS LOSE THE SPARING SESSION?! YES. Did the Wolves win? Sure would have. Did Russ lose? Better believe it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277404-scars/page/14/#findComment-3425183 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 After saying all that, I suggest you create a new account, for the SW fans will most likely hunt you down. I've seen it happen before. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277404-scars/page/14/#findComment-3425189 Share on other sites More sharing options...
calgar101 Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 The phrase "Won the battle, lost the war" springs to mind on Angron and the Night of the Wolf incident. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277404-scars/page/14/#findComment-3425199 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Furor Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 Do you think Angron would of got on with Vulkan? Everyone loved Vulkan surely. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277404-scars/page/14/#findComment-3425205 Share on other sites More sharing options...
calgar101 Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 Probably not, he would most likely have seen Vulkan as weak for his humanitarian side. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277404-scars/page/14/#findComment-3425208 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyall Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 I don't think he saw any one of his brothers as "not weak" to some measure. I'm going to risk saying he found Horus' manipulative abilites (or 'being a people person) as too much patience for the weaker and dependence. Vulkan was the strongest Primarch - and not exactly shy of showing it - so if they took to the battlefield together, I can see Angron doing micro-second nods of approval when his brother lifted tanks and home-ran them into fortresses. Lorgar wasn't exactly known for his combat skills and Angron ended up respecting him on the battlefield. I'm pretty sure he respected Ferrus, Jaghatai, maybe even Sanguinius if he ever saw the angel doing a People's Elbow from the atmosphere. What happens is that there's a funny thing with strong achievers who also have strong minds and personalities - they sometimes despise those who are all about uncontrolled strength. So I'm sure Ferrus didn't give a crap about Angron other than 'Put him in another Expedition other than mine'. Jaghatai might've at least seen the World Eater as an elemental force of some sort. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277404-scars/page/14/#findComment-3425232 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 Actually, its a possibility. Vulkan seems to have an ability for minimizing collateral damage. One of the tricks with the World Eaters is managing the collateral damage. Basically, point them to the biggest pocket of resistance that won't overspill into the civilian population. They may not ever be the biggest fans of each other, but I could actually see them coming to an accord where Angron still gets his fight and Vulkan manages to save as many civilian lives as possible. EDIT: @Greyall, actually in FW's Betrayal, Angron organizes an armored regiment in the World Eaters that specialized in smashing through heavy lines. Ferrus Manus actually praised it, using something along the lines like it was pure fury given iron form. The thing about Angron is that he knew how to apply force at specific points. The problem was, he didn't have pinpoint precision. I think it was somewhere in this thread that I compared the World Eaters ro a dirty nuke. Ideally, a suitable weapon. Whatever you hit with it, is dead. The problem is all the collateral damage. It's not necessarily so much a matter of no control so much as it is to get the Hulk to fit into a door frame of 3 feet by 2 feet and not expect him to put a hole in the wall. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277404-scars/page/14/#findComment-3425233 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 Couldnt be worse then Vulkan/Cruze in that regard. Agree with Greyall, Angron probably saw weakness in everyone, as his fear of finding it in himself is a huge driver for him. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277404-scars/page/14/#findComment-3425235 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozeryk_Sleipnijr Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 Well even later as a Demon Angorn was to stupid to realize that brawn alone does not win you battles, Logan Grimnars Plan involving the Grey Knights on Armageddon saw Angorn sucked back into the orifice of the warp. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277404-scars/page/14/#findComment-3425239 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozeryk_Sleipnijr Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 But back to the Scar story, its only going to be 12 chapters. Serials are also susceprible to major spoiling in this day and age, i hope they audio book it Susceptible (damn i- phone) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277404-scars/page/14/#findComment-3425244 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 Well even later as a Demon Angorn was to stupid to realize that brawn alone does not win you battles, Logan Grimnars Plan involving the Grey Knights on Armageddon saw Angorn sucked back into the orifice of the warp. Didnt Angron actually stop fighting because he knew he had to reinforce his Alter/Portal/Thing? (Old Fluff reference, not from the newer Novel) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277404-scars/page/14/#findComment-3425248 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyall Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 Forgotten about the tank formation. Hmm, well, I might've been wrong, but it could be the case that Ferrus, himself fond of all things smashy to the point of hysteria, was simply too impressed with said regiment's power, regardless of the mind behind it. Actually, it'd be cool to see that on a list, I'm thinking around thirty Typhons at least making the speartip. Let's not go into Armaggedon One here, to this day I assume ADB didn't show us Angron's falling moment in The Emperor's Gift precisely because he knew there was no way to tell that story in detail using GW's official numbers without stirring all hell. I'd actually like to read of a joint engagement with the Scars and the World Eaters. I'm sure a few of Jaghatai's men would be impressed with Angron's. Especially when a frothing maniac outpaced their bikes to reach the enemy lines first. Edit: He didn't have to, I think, Scribe, he chose to, losing a lot of time and momentum. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277404-scars/page/14/#findComment-3425263 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 On the note of Angron, the older fluff does indeed state that instead of pushing forward, Angron had to slow down his advance to build altars in order to sustain his form as well as that of his daemonic allies. Of course, this was back in the days where a daemon's power was also relative to how far away it was from the Eye of Terror and Armageddon was supposed to be very far away. The Grey Knights and Space Wolves took advantage of this and managed to banish him before he could complete the system of altars. IIRC, all of the Grey Knights died in order to achieve it. Essentially, they took a page out of his book: "Can't win if you aren't willing to bleed." Go figure that when Angron used his head, he was beaten with brawn. How this depicted in The Emperor's Gift, I do not know. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277404-scars/page/14/#findComment-3425309 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyall Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 Not in the Emperor's Gift, to my memory, but in other sources, the altars were treated as a fatal mistake, made due to overconfidence and overblown devotion, they didn't exactly serve a purpose. When I mention ADB's TEG, I meant the fighting part, which cuts to its end at its peak, when the protagonist blacks out, and we're treated to a vague recount of the rest of the fight's main moments Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277404-scars/page/14/#findComment-3425320 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 Ah okay. I know in Conquest of Armageddon, the World Eaters in the book mentioned the plan and its neccessity, but thought it was stupid and that it would have been better for them to just burn through the planet and then move onto the next planet to slaughter and to just enjoy it while it lasts. Of course, those same World Eaters then use the altar to time travel and all four hundred are killed by four Black Templars and five Relictors, who afterwards turn on each other. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277404-scars/page/14/#findComment-3425326 Share on other sites More sharing options...
calgar101 Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 When Ferrus and Vulkan are mentioned by Lorgar in Betrayer, Angron laughs and refers to them as weaklings. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277404-scars/page/14/#findComment-3425353 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 Angron called Lorgar weak. And yet they shared some of the friendliest conversations ever seen. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277404-scars/page/14/#findComment-3425369 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Furor Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 Yeah think this is during butchers nails the audio drama when they face dark eldar together, they kind of both come to respect each other. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277404-scars/page/14/#findComment-3425372 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 yetbtheybshared Ibfeelbyourbpain I took the towers as necessary for Angron to retain his immense power level, but not necessary for the burning of Armageddon. It was a mistake, it put too much attention on his main weakness and they suffered for it. But it was necessary for Angron to remain strong. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277404-scars/page/14/#findComment-3425374 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 I don't even know how I pulled that off................ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277404-scars/page/14/#findComment-3425375 Share on other sites More sharing options...
calgar101 Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 Angron called Lorgar weak. And yet they shared some of the friendliest conversations ever seen. That is true and no doubt Logar saving Angron's life helped to build a bond of sorts between them. I'm just pointing out what Angron has said about Vulkan so far. In a future novel perhaps his opinion on his brother changes but for now there seems to be no respect for the Drake. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277404-scars/page/14/#findComment-3425391 Share on other sites More sharing options...
High MarshalGR Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 Forgotten about the tank formation. Hmm, well, I might've been wrong, but it could be the case that Ferrus, himself fond of all things smashy to the point of hysteria, was simply too impressed with said regiment's power, regardless of the mind behind it. Actually, it'd be cool to see that on a list, I'm thinking around thirty Typhons at least making the speartip. Let's not go into Armaggedon One here, to this day I assume ADB didn't show us Angron's falling moment in The Emperor's Gift precisely because he knew there was no way to tell that story in detail using GW's official numbers without stirring all hell. I'd actually like to read of a joint engagement with the Scars and the World Eaters. I'm sure a few of Jaghatai's men would be impressed with Angron's. Especially when a frothing maniac outpaced their bikes to reach the enemy lines first. Edit: He didn't have to, I think, Scribe, he chose to, losing a lot of time and momentum. I would like to see this too. As far as the whole Angron's respect thing goes, I think Angron respects the ones he does respect in the way a cocky young man respects his elders. He thinks he is supreme to them by far and that they have no idea of him, and if they try to make him hear them out, he shuns them. More or less what you guys before me said in diefferent words. @Scribe of Khorne: Nice description @Calgar101: That's the same phrase I think of when I considerthe Night of the Wolf. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277404-scars/page/14/#findComment-3425442 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter the Hermit Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 Thing is if Empeor had sent any tacticaly sane primarch to hunt Angy they would have done it like Russ did probably.... Perurabo would dig a hole, Magnus would ward him or something, and UM would have done it even better than the wolves.. Also scribe of khorne don't acuse people about bias because you are heavy biased yourself , no offense... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277404-scars/page/14/#findComment-3425443 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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