hendrik Posted August 27, 2013 Author Share Posted August 27, 2013 i usually field around 100 guardsmen in my standard list, and several heavy weapon teams and i must admit, i've been unimpressed by them! now i feel that has more to do with the enemy i'm facing (necrons that won't die, or bloodangels with fnp everywhere) than witht he guardsmen being a bad choice, as well as with my opponent playing it clever and blocking LOS as much as he can so he can close in on me. more recently i'm thinking of fielding my space wolves again as the main force, with the allied armoured battalion coming to their aid Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277452-cadian-812th/page/3/#findComment-3436943 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted August 27, 2013 Share Posted August 27, 2013 Some foes impudently refuse to die when shot, but they'd be trouble for all not just Guardsmen. The answer is surely "more Guardsmen" or "more big guns" - or perhaps both! If your enemy is cowering from the gaze of His most righteous servants (and what lowly traitor/xeno wouldn't?) then it sounds like you need more big guns of the ordnance variety. Where's Argun our resident artilleryman when you need him? He'll set you straight ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277452-cadian-812th/page/3/#findComment-3437081 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argun Posted August 27, 2013 Share Posted August 27, 2013 Did someone say... artillery? If you're having problems with MEQ, get colossi for thier barrage, AP3, no cover, large blasts. Basilisks for long range anti-tank/MEQ (S9 ord. AP3 is fun!) If you just want to say F-you! to those pesky T5 or AV14 models, get Medusas. Sure, they don't have that long of a range, but S10, AP2 (AP1 for a 5pt. upgrade, though it turns into a small blast, but also gets +12" of range) will insta-kill most anything. Couple that with ordnance, and you've got some interesting units that eventually your opponents will target first before taking shots at everything else. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277452-cadian-812th/page/3/#findComment-3437095 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendrik Posted August 27, 2013 Author Share Posted August 27, 2013 oh but I know! but once those pesky bloodangels hit my lines most of my arty will scatter into my own lines! in general i've found my AV12 to die too easy. I've so far only had limited succes with my medusa. here's my typical list: -vanquisher command tank, lascannon, and a couple of other upgrades -2 leman russ battle tanks -1 leman russ exterminatorallied imperial guard detachment: -company command squad -1-2 decked out platoons, heavy weapons, all of it(usually 3 autocannon sabre platforms too) -1 manticore (manticore missiles) now these's a lot of options modelwise i can still include. I've got 2 artillery thanks that can double as medusas, collosus, griffons,...I can include 2 vendettas and a thunderbolt, mounted veterans,... you think of it, and most likely i'll be able to field it,aside from ratlings!my main reason for wanting to switch back to some space wolves is the survivability of my squads. my opponent knows these are my scoring units and he usually focusses quite heavely on them, blasting them into oblivion. hence why i think trying out that delicious 3+ armour save once again will feel good! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277452-cadian-812th/page/3/#findComment-3437108 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argun Posted August 27, 2013 Share Posted August 27, 2013 Well, here's my suggestion: CCS +Creed, Astropath, Master of Fleet (your reserves come in on 2+, his on 4+), possible add in MoO as well Troop: Basic platoon +extra inf. squad Basic platoon +extra inf. squad Aegis Defense Line +Autocannon turret Heavy: Squadron 1: (keep these near base, or outflank with Creed for da lulz!) Punisher +Pask Punisher Squadron 2: Your choice of Russes Squadron 3: Choice of Artillery Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277452-cadian-812th/page/3/#findComment-3437147 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendrik Posted August 27, 2013 Author Share Posted August 27, 2013 I tend to play with the armoured battalion armylist mostly! ;) and i must say, i'm not impressed by the punisher their statline. it's way better to take vultures then.In 2 recent games i've tried fielding an executioner and i must say i'm impressed! I might have to try out hindering his reserves with a master of the fleet though, but even then, if he field his bloodangels he always includes dante, this means that non of his deepstriking units scatter when they deepstrike, which is a HUGE benefit (suddently he can deploy melta-pistols withing 3" of my tanks without any fear of scattering! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277452-cadian-812th/page/3/#findComment-3437219 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argun Posted August 27, 2013 Share Posted August 27, 2013 ah... therein lies your problem! If he's able to pod in guys to within 3" of your tanks, you aren't using your bubble wrap guardsmen properly! You'd be surprised how much space a 20 man blob can take up when spaced 2" apart! I only suggest the punishers because A) I've had good experiences with them, B) my LGS doesn't use IA (yet!), and C) 46 S5 shots for 2 tanks (and if the one with Pask stays still, he's suddenly S6 against vehicles, or re-rolls on MC's). I've killed many a foolhardy deep-striking unit who thought that my AP- wouldn't kill them! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277452-cadian-812th/page/3/#findComment-3437233 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendrik Posted August 27, 2013 Author Share Posted August 27, 2013 i guess i'll try bubblewrapping my tanks a bit more! usually i deploy two big blobs that march forward to try and grab/contest one of his objectives edit: it should be noted that i usually win these games! just not as smoothly as i'dd like! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277452-cadian-812th/page/3/#findComment-3437309 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 Yeah I was going to say sounds like you need your Guardsmen to form defensive ranks. You also need to look for the silver lining - if you know your opponents will target a particular unit then you can act to either protect it or set a trap. This works very well in my experiences as even if your opponent realises what you're doing he's in a no-win situation. Another good tactic is to hide a small Plasma squad in those lines. Your opponent will not want to drop in on them only to get plasma'd off the board next turn. Veterans work well for this as they can have several guns with the BS4 and extra bodies to endure any initial targeting if you have the points. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277452-cadian-812th/page/3/#findComment-3437777 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendrik Posted August 28, 2013 Author Share Posted August 28, 2013 "hm, so you mean i'm not supposed to charge in, guns blazing!? HERESY! this is the imperial guard! the emperors anvil upon which he will smite the unclean! and by the emperor, have you ever seen an anvil do much damage by standing still boy? now if you were to hurl said anvil!!!" i really think i'm going to try this "setting up a trap" in my next game, although i think he'll still deploy his bloodangels in my face, forcing me to take dangerous risks with my leman russes fire! the hard part will be to convince myself to stay put! i usually charge my entire list forward into the fray, taking the fight to them like any mad imperial guard commander would do! "how do you mean we ran out of ammo? BAJONETS!!!" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277452-cadian-812th/page/3/#findComment-3437820 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 I can't recommend it enough hendrik It's all the more juicy when your opponent doesn't see it coming as you get to crush his attacking unit and still fire your big gun You could argue the opposite being almost as good too, for as soon as your opponent changes his plans then you're starting to control the game and will soon have him dancing to your tune. Though that tune is normally the thunder of guns and the dancing is trying to avoid all the lasgun shots... The Banewolf is my favourite for this. Fast for a good reaction range and automatically hitting with a fiendish template that will wipe even Marines from the board with contemptuous ease it is the perfect unit for such a role Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277452-cadian-812th/page/3/#findComment-3438112 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendrik Posted August 28, 2013 Author Share Posted August 28, 2013 i've actually tried the banewolf in our last apocalypse game, and sadly, i was a bit dissapointed when i found out it was AP3!, don't get me wrong, AP3 is nice, but i end up facing too much 2+ armour for it to be great!, none the less i'll try to field a more trap-based list newt time how about something like this: command vanquishers: lascannon, coaxial heavy stubber, maybe some other upgrades leman russ battle tank (troops) leman russ battle tank (troops) leman russ executioner, plasma sponsons (troops) leman russ commisarriat tank;exterminator, heavy bolter sponsons (elites) banewolf: hull heavy flamer? collosus allied cadian 812th support units company command squad; master of the fleet (the one that delays his reserves) is possibleplatoon A platoon command squad: 6 infantry squads(20 man blobs to blob around the leman russes) add heavy wepaon teams to hold objectives if possible platoon B platoon command squad: 6 infantry squads(20 man blobs to blob around the leman russes) If really possible i'll add in a plasma veteran squad now the specifics i'll do later on, but how's the sound of that Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277452-cadian-812th/page/3/#findComment-3438227 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argun Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 Sounds pretty good Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277452-cadian-812th/page/3/#findComment-3438287 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendrik Posted August 28, 2013 Author Share Posted August 28, 2013 I did a full pledged list now as the family is catching up with watching hell on wheels, If you think of it, the 40th millenium has quite some resemblance to the wild west! Anyway, here's the list! 2000 pts, cadian 812th armoured battalion joined up with the cadian 812th riflemen brigade -company command tank, vanquisher, lascannon, coaxial heavy stubber 190 pts -commissar tank; exterminator, HB, HB sponsons 180 pts -battle tank squadron; 1 x battletank 150 pts -siege tank squadron; 1 x executioner, PC sponsons 230 pts -siege tank squadron; 1 x demolisher 165 pts -bane wolf chem tank, hull HF 130 pts -colossus 140 pts alied cadian 812th riflemen: -company command squad: lascannon, officer of the fleet 95 pts -platoon A: PCS: 2 x flamer 40 inf sqd: MG 60 pts inf sqd: flamer 55 pts inf sqd: MG 60 pts inf sqd:flamer 55 pts inf sqd: flamer 55 pts hvy wpn sqd: 3 x mortars 60 pts -platoon B PCS: AC 40 pts inf sqd: MG 60 pts inf sqd: flamer 55 pts inf sqd: AC 60 pts inf sqd: 50 pts inf sqd: 50 pts exactly 2000 pts! I might swap out those PC sponsons on the executioner and change the demolisher for a sponsonless executioner. this would give me 15 pts extra to spend on upgrades, perhaps 3 mortars spread out in the infantry squads How do you guys usually equip your bubblewrap squadrons, are 20 man sqds needed? i've only got 100 guardsman to bubblewrap with, unless i ditch a tank from the list. The banewolf hides in cover, somewhere in the middel of my deployment Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277452-cadian-812th/page/3/#findComment-3438370 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argun Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 How I usually do the bubblewrap is this: 20 man blob spread out as much as possible via 2" coherency rules. Until I know for certain that my opponent is out of deep-strikers, then they can go into a gunline. Basically what that does is give them no way to land safely. Artillery is usually either between squads or behind them in cover. All troops are stock (aside from maybe one with commissar/vox for FRFSRF) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277452-cadian-812th/page/3/#findComment-3438427 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kassill Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 Loving your work Hendrik! I have to say I prefer the dot pattern to the striped so keep it up! ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277452-cadian-812th/page/3/#findComment-3438595 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted August 29, 2013 Share Posted August 29, 2013 Hah, yes it'd be broken as hell if it was AP2 :P Apoc is a different kettle of fish though so I wouldn't be using that as a benchmark or anything. I like the hull HF for the Banewolf too, synchronises well as you'd expect and really puts the wounds on lighter infantry and makes it an unstoppable killing machine. Now I've got two after the ETL I'm itching to try a 2 Hellhound and 2 Banewolf army... Come and get some greenskins! :lol: I like the list, should be pretty effective. I tend to use infantry squads with special weapons but I'm starting to lean towards using heavies now for a change. I don't really blob my squads either as I prefer the additional flexibility and mobility which is what I'd do for making defensive formations for your vehicles. It also makes it easier to move them out of the way should your big guns need to reposition. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277452-cadian-812th/page/3/#findComment-3438966 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendrik Posted August 29, 2013 Author Share Posted August 29, 2013 hm, perhaps i should swap out all those meltaguns for autocannons, gives me more reach for those units that are otherwise sitting ducks anyway! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277452-cadian-812th/page/3/#findComment-3439103 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted August 29, 2013 Share Posted August 29, 2013 The melta would let them provide a larger threat, especially should a Dreadnought drop in on you but an Autocannon or other heavy weapon would let the unit do something useful while sitting in your backfield. I'd go with the latter at least predominately as it's unlikely they'll move all that much, but a bit of melta could help offer some versatility :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277452-cadian-812th/page/3/#findComment-3439174 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendrik Posted September 6, 2013 Author Share Posted September 6, 2013 "I ain't dead yet!" In a swift motion Argun pushed the fallen traitor of his body and reached for his lasgun. As he grabbed it the traitorous mob turned their attention to them. His first lasbolt pieced one man in the chest, the second one send a half bleeding hive militia member reeling away to find some cover. Arguns squad had been left out in the open when the battleline was broken, and the imperial guard started to rout. That was 15 minutes ago. By now he and his squad found themselves completly surrounded by the troaitor scum, if no help arrived any time soon they would be completly overrun in the next five minutes. Suddently his vox crackled to life. --tango two, tango two, this is hellsblaze forty, I repeat, this is hellsblade forty. Find some cover now, because it's about to get hot-- Argun knew what this ment: "DIG IN MEN! VULTURE INBOUND!!!" and here it is, my newest conversion,using one of my two vendettas whom i rarely use: http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb281/amorfatipictures/IMG_20130906_125305_zps6edaa3bb.jpg http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb281/amorfatipictures/IMG_20130906_125324_zpsb4406102.jpg http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb281/amorfatipictures/IMG_20130906_125335_zpsabe52c8d.jpg http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb281/amorfatipictures/IMG_20130906_125402_zps5543fa9d.jpg http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb281/amorfatipictures/IMG_20130906_125411_zps7b17b366.jpg http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb281/amorfatipictures/IMG_20130906_125421_zpsde5b2248.jpg obviously it's still a paint in progress, although i will keep the grey sheme for all my imperial navy detached units Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277452-cadian-812th/page/3/#findComment-3448840 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argun Posted September 6, 2013 Share Posted September 6, 2013 Though I was surprised and feel quite honored to be part of the fluff, I have one thing to say about this flyer... It looks awesome! That is quite the creative use of bits for the rear engine, never would have thought of doing that! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277452-cadian-812th/page/3/#findComment-3448849 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted September 6, 2013 Share Posted September 6, 2013 Where do you keep getting these ideas from? The barrel seems a little long but other than that it looks great, trooper Argun need not fear with such a beast coming to his rescue ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277452-cadian-812th/page/3/#findComment-3448919 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendrik Posted September 6, 2013 Author Share Posted September 6, 2013 WarriorFish, on 06 Sept 2013 - 14:27, said: Where do you keep getting these ideas from? it usually involves me going through my imperial armour books thinking "what unit could i possibly need", followed by a quick "look in da bitz-box". Stir it for 5 minutes, add the creativity and let it boil on a soft fire for 15 minutes. Best served hot and ready for deployment! the nose canon was based on various other vulture conversions. originally i wanted to make the two under-wing-mounted guns, but i ran out of plasticard to use for the barrels. hence the barrels are this long, since originally it would be mounted underneath the wings... HOWEVER, the machine gun on the modern A-10 is also pretty massive! it's just hidden more in the nose. http://www.warchapter.com/images/Warchapter.com%20A10%20Gatling%20gun.jpg Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277452-cadian-812th/page/3/#findComment-3448965 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendrik Posted September 27, 2013 Author Share Posted September 27, 2013 21 days without any updates, now this won't do! here's what i'm currently working on: http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb281/amorfatipictures/IMG_20130927_222637_zpse666a25e.jpg Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277452-cadian-812th/page/3/#findComment-3477869 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argun Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 Waitaminute... are those LEGO PIECES!? Blashpemy! Heresy! Call the commissars! Alert the Inquisition! Though I lament the use of the poor souls of those plastic bricks, I cannot help but applaud your ingenuity sir! I assume they are the exact sizes you were looking for? *sniff* those poor, poor Lego pieces... taken before their time. Farewell, may you find use again in smiting the unholy Megablox Chaos scum! *sniff* Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277452-cadian-812th/page/3/#findComment-3477882 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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