Target Priority

[Sohail187]

brothers, i really need some help.

 

At a local club of mine, this eldar player is a great opponent and tough to beat. He uses *Bob* (Wraithnight) along side a high level farseen on jet bike. I have not read the eldar codex so i do not understand everything that happens. But this is the story The jet bike farseer has a 2 up vunerable which he can reroll. So i ignore this but he goes round the battlefield beefing stuff up, it will take to much fire power to get him down. The wraithknight will loose 3-4 wounds in a turn of shooting.... but on a 2+ the wraithknight gets a wound back every turn?

 

If i ignore the wraithknight it beats my troops over and over again, if i focus the farseer on jetbike it takes to much fire power and his normal units just go untouched. if i focus his other units (wave serpents) i just cannot get through his amour due to 3+ inv saves. If i leave the serpants they do like 12 s hots each or something stupid. 

i got no fricking idea what to do here.

[sn33r]

Eldar is the new thing here too and I can honestly say we are under powered and over priced, I've found against such things are 5 wg with combo melta or plasma dp in shoot like mad and tie up in cc till next turn to give your long fangs a whole turn to focus on another target.hopefully they would have killed another target then focus on this one.

[Sohail187]

ii played that guy twice today. 2nd time i tried that very thing thing i drop pod 5 wgtda and combi plasma. I EVEN made sure i had rune priest in 12 inch to reroll hits. 

i got 9 hits and it was 5 to wounds vs T8 and got 4 wounds he saved 2 (4 wounds to go). and the hail of fire power from the serpants....

[Plan-B]

Hey man I just played an elder player at my local shop also.  First time I had played elder in a while so I didn't really know what to expect.  I took 2 units of longfangs w/ launchers and a quad gun.  The rest was pretty much rune priests and troops w/ plasma guns.  Needless to say I lost but it wasn't by much.  Where I really screwed up was my drop pod placement.  For some reason I thought I was going to destroy his dire avenger squad attached to a farseer w/ one unit of grey knights and a rune priest.  Instead of targeting the squad I shot at a wave serpent next to it and did nothing (Huge mistake!).  Then of course they cant do anything else and just sit there and take a rapid fire from rending weapons and killed the whole squad outright.  What im going to do next time is just sit back and let him come to me and play the objectives.  At the end of the game it came down to one objective and the only reason he won was because a unit of warp spiders was still alive and on an objective.  I had no idea the "The Scouring " allowed for fast attack to hold objectives lol. Anyways I would have fared much better I think if I played more defensively instead of podding in behind his lines.  Good luck dude.

[Sohail187]

ye i kind of feel, focusing so much on 1-2 units and leaving all these troops is killing me. OW one more thing, he was turbo boosting like 2 inch's and claiming the cover save that comes with turbo boost. I thought you had to move X amount of inches in a turbo boost move before you receive the better save.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

Alright,

 

1) how is he claiming a 2+ re-rollable invul on a Farseer?

2) how is he claiming to heal Bob?

 

if you can figure out what rules he is using to claim such advantges, then we can fact-check him. but so far your only giving numbers with real context, so its hard to help.

 

 

give me rules, and I'll be happy to scour my Eldar codex and assist.

 

WLK

[logun]

not sure if eldar are aloud to use the biomancy psychic powers list or not but if so there is the endurance power that can grant a unit the feel no pain, it will not die(on a 5+) and relentless powers. so the wraithlord could be getting wounds back that way.

 

basically this bloke should be making sure you know what he has in his army and what special abilities/powers everything has before the game.

[Rift Blade]

Ok, Eldar can pick powers from the BRB, but only Divination & Telepathy. He can get a 2+ save on a jetbike if he has the power Protect/Jinx but he/she has to roll it(Eldar do NOT get to pick their powers) & this is not a Primaris power. However, it does not apply to invul saves. He can get the reroll via Fortune, again not a Primaris power. The Wraith Knight could have a wound restored via Destructor/Renewer but the psyker must be in 18". Again, this is not a Primaris power. Just FYI. Good Luck.

[Sohail187]

The farseer, i think he said because he moved x amount on the bike that turn increased his invul save + furtuned himself. What ever he used to heal bob was not a spell, as he was not making a psychic test for it. I didnt want to challenge or say anything at the time. I thought i would do my research and bring it up next week. 

 

It all just felt to good, you know that saying *if its to good to be true* i really need to purchase eldar codex. 

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

Farseers do not have access to the protect/jinx powers, only spirirt seers and warlocks do. the healing power is also not available to farseers.

 

WLK

[Squark]

Yeah, it does sound like he's playing fast and loose with the rules. It might be that he was using warlocks in a seer council to do those things and you were misunderstanding, but it's hard to say without having been there or a more solid knowledge of the eldar 'dex on your part.

 

 

@sn33r: Calling everything in the codex overpriced and underpowered is overstating it, though. Every marine army is hurting at the moment due to metagame shifts, but as far as basic marines go, Grey Hunters are still as good as it gets (160 points for 10 Grey hunters with 2 plasmaguns. 10 Chaos Space Marines with 2 plasmaguns and the extra close combat weapon is 190 points. They're also +1 leadership, but they won't have ATSKNF or Counter Attack. 10 Dark Angels with a Plasmagun and missile launcher is about 180. No leadership bonus, the heavy weapon and the plasmagun don't really syrengize together, and they've got stubborn (which can be as much a curse as it is a blessing) instead of counter attack). Long Fangs are priced at levels comparable to an Imperial Guard heavy weapons team (Heavy weapons team with missile launchers-90 points. 3 Missile fangs with pack leader? -80 points). Rune Priests still have some of the best offensive powers in the game as well as the last psychic defense in the game that isn't tied to 'Nid synapse creatures, and Thunderwolf Cavalry are still good at what they do.

 

Don't get me wrong, we're hurting for options, and the metagame doesn't favor Marines in general at the moment, but claiming that it's something wrong with the codex as opposed to the metagame, when Blood Angels and Codex Marines are in a worse situation, and Dark Angels are also stuck relying on a few gimmicks (And CSM are living and dieing on the Turkey from Hell), is the sort of thing that gets the Space Wolf haters up in arms. It's not a Space Wolf problem, it's an Eldar and Tau problem.

[Grey Mage]

brothers, i really need some help.

 

At a local club of mine, this eldar player is a great opponent and tough to beat. He uses *Bob* (Wraithnight) along side a high level farseen on jet bike. I have not read the eldar codex so i do not understand everything that happens. But this is the story The jet bike farseer has a 2 up vunerable which he can reroll. So i ignore this but he goes round the battlefield beefing stuff up, it will take to much fire power to get him down. The wraithknight will loose 3-4 wounds in a turn of shooting.... but on a 2+ the wraithknight gets a wound back every turn?

 

If i ignore the wraithknight it beats my troops over and over again, if i focus the farseer on jetbike it takes to much fire power and his normal units just go untouched. if i focus his other units (wave serpents) i just cannot get through his amour due to 3+ inv saves. If i leave the serpants they do like 12 s hots each or something stupid. 

 

i got no fricking idea what to do here.

Its impossible, no way to get a 2+ invulnerable save. Or even a 3+ invulnerable save on a jetbike. Theres only one way to even get a 2+ regular save on a farseer. You or your eldar playing friend are mistaken. Fortune, the power that allows him to reroll his saves is a random power- he is selecting his powers randomly right?

 

Farseers on a jetbike get a 3+ and a 4++, and if he turboboosts hell get nice cover save like any other jetbike- but no powers for him.

 

Oh, wait.... you meant a 3++ on his waveserpents? Doesnt exist. You get a 5+ cover save for moving, and holofields will bring it up to a 4+- hell only get a 3+ save if youre shooting him through 4+ cover terrain like heavy stone walls etc.

 

The Wraithknight does not get a wound back every turn on its own. It has to be a psychic power- again rolled randomly!- from a warlock. There is one power, that if he makes a psychic test on a one wound model with leadership 8 will give back one wound to a model within 18". Track this, make sure hes rolling for his powers randomly.

 

Eldar have alot of rules, and they arent anything like marines. If you have questions feel free to post them here and Ill do my best to answer, but hte best thing you can do is ask your opponent to slow down and explain everything he does to you.

 

A few notes:

 

Only phoenix lords get a 2+ armor save without a psychic power.

Only Eldrad has a 3+ invulnerable save outside a challenge.

All psychic powers are rolled randomly.

Wave serpent shields give you a 2+ roll to downgrade penetrating hits to glancing hits- but they still lose a hull point each time. OOOORRRRR. OR. They give you d6+1 S7 shots. A player cannot use both in a single game turn, ever, for any reason. Enjoy.

 

Wraith Knights have a 3+, and can get a 5++ if they have the small blast gun or the sword. Hes probably taking the small blast gun. Like every gun on the Wraithknight it has a 36" range, your long fangs should put a number on it before its gotten more than a single shooting phase off on your GHs. If it continues to be a problem start taking landspeeder typhoons.

 

 

 

The farseer, i think he said because he moved x amount on the bike that turn increased his invul save + furtuned himself. What ever he used to heal bob was not a spell, as he was not making a psychic test for it. I didnt want to challenge or say anything at the time. I thought i would do my research and bring it up next week. 

 

It all just felt to good, you know that saying *if its to good to be true* i really need to purchase eldar codex. 

It was in fact to good to be true. Challenge things. It is NEVER a problem to simply ask to read the rule. If he gets irrate tell him its not that you dont trust him, but you learn better by reading and you want to understand whats going on with the game- in my case its true, in your case it might be a white lie, but in any case its a good thing to do for any oddball rules.

[Sohail187]

Hi all thanks for all the replies. I managed to get a a PDF version of the codex and started to go through it last night. 

 

I think he had me and played to the fact i didnt know the codex :) He defo had a farseer on jetbike and not a lock, as he had 3W. He used Jinx/protect when he does not have access to this power. The only thing i cannot find is the healing spell which he used on his wraith knight, now in the codex i see the spell Renew model with in 18 inches gets 1W back. However he said he had to roll a 2+ to get the wound back. I will just have to ask for the name of those spells next time.

 

In regards to the notes you provided thanks everyone :) I Think he was using the roll on the Serpents shield and the shooting attack, whilst not loosing hull points. knowing all this information feels like the army is actually manageable and not untouchable.

[Grey Mage]

Yeah, I love my space elves but theyre not unbeatable by any means- never have been.

If you have any other questions, just let us know.

[Sohail187]

will do :) thanks 

[WG Capt. Iagn Thunderclaw]

Wraithknight - No Problem! Put Arjack in a drop pod with 4 other WG combiplasma and put a rune priest in a second drop pod with 9 grey hunters plasma gun and plasma pistol.

 

Drop within 12" get out 6" throw Arjacs hammer 6" at WK does one wound at S10 AP 1. The other 8 combi plasma shots have a good chance of killing him outright. But now WK is ini 1.

 

Drop the Ruin Priest Squad within 12" shot three plasma shots at WK if that doesn't finish him cast Jaws of the World Wolf. Rune Priests do get to pick our powers. He has to roll a 1 or 2 for WK INI or the whole model is gone. WK is ini 1 from Arjac plus 1 INI for being a MC.

 

If WK is still alive you need to buy new dice.

[Sohail187]

ooo never thought abot that!! drop him to i1 then jaws.

[Squark]

Hrrmm.... Looking at what you wrote again, are you sure he wasn't calling a cover save an invulnerable? Because a 2+ cover save is very doable for Eldar.

 

On the Wave Serpents with 3+'s, that's doable for one turn if you turbo-boost and blow a one use wargear that allows their vehicles to turbo-boost and shoot. Well, it's doable every turn, but the Wave Serpent's a gunboat, and not shooting with it is a bad idea.

[WG Capt. Iagn Thunderclaw]

Yep works like a charm. My meta stopped putting WK on the table and instead brings him in reserve. If they are not lucky WK may not come in until T4, not a very good use of 240 pts.

 

After you dispatch WK Arjac can character hunt that Farseer reroll S10 AP1 hits with a 3++, aint bad.

 

The Rune Priest JOTWW / Arjac trick is a pretty good combo against most every character. If the character does not have EW Arjac will kill them outright with his thrown TH. If they have EW Arjac make them Ini 1 and the Jaws will remove the character.

 

If you get turn 1. You are way ahead, 1 VP first blood + 1vp slay the warlord + 1 vp (potential) line breaker.

 

Don't forget all those 'Nid monsterous creatures are INI1 already so drop down. Line up the Rune Priest to catch all of those gaunt producing targets and watch the Nid player cry when he can't roll better than 2.

 

My meta allows Jaws to work on grounded FMC's even though I tried to tell them Jaws does not apply to grounded FMC's. My meta says that doesn't make sense as a grounded FMC plays in every other way as Jump MC. So if they don't mind loosing their flying Hive Tyrant or flying greater deamon / Deamon prince to Arjac / Jaws, then I don't mind doing it to them.

[Squark]

My meta allows Jaws to work on grounded FMC's even though I tried to tell them Jaws does not apply to grounded FMC's. My meta says that doesn't make sense as a grounded FMC plays in every other way as Jump MC. So if they don't mind loosing their flying Hive Tyrant or flying greater deamon / Deamon prince to Arjac / Jaws, then I don't mind doing it to them.

To be fair to them, there is some precedent; There's no rational reason melta bombs should work on Flying MCs by strict RAW, but the FAQ makes it clear that it does, without actually errata'ing anything. Ungh. I wish GW's FAQ team was a lot more on their game. Or even would outsource things to a couple of fans if they're feeling that lazy (Just call it playtesting. They do do that, right?).

[Rift Blade]

Didn't you know? Their FAQ team is a bunch of Weathermen! How often is the weather forcast right?!? LOL!!!

[WG Capt. Iagn Thunderclaw]

I have a much harder time with eldar jetbikes with the new and improved bladestorm, BS4, jink, 3+ AS and Tough 4 than I do with WK. He can also improve their cover save making them nigh impossible to kill and as a troop choice they can claim objectives as jetbikes they can move all the way across table in one turn and claim linebreaker.

[WG Capt. Iagn Thunderclaw]

Wait until your buddy discovers wraithguard and then he discover d-scythes. Those little T6 flame throwers from hell a unit of 5 with the spirit seer all in a wave serpent zooming all over the board blowing stuff up and frying whole units are something much worse than one little Wraithknight.

[Sohail187]

he has wraithguard in a wave serp with a seer thingy, on both occasions i dropped the wave serp with the wraithguard before they could get to me, and whilst they were slogging i picked at em. Yes jet bikes heheh :) he uses 2, 3 man squads leaves them in reserves till the last 2 turns. Flys about collecting objectives and line breaker.

[WG Capt. Iagn Thunderclaw]

Collecting Objectives? The only one that can actually be picked up is "The Relic". The rest he has to camp on with a scoring unit and you get to contest them.