Defending the Title - SA Nationals 2013

[Chaplain Admetus]

 

Hmmm..

 

an autarch on jetbike can ignore obstacles (jet rule, p45 brb) did your opponent forgot this?

 

additional knight could turn this game, imo.

 

edit: typo

 

oh god, dont tell me i cheated him.  I'll be devastated ><; 

I thought this is in the movement phase, not in the charging? Surely you cant move through models in the charge phase?!

 

Tricky one to call; I'd be happier seeing this go to the FAQ guys. As I see it, the pertinent parts of the rules are these:

 

1) Jetbike rules (p. 45) - "Jetbikes can always move over all other models and terrain freely. However, if a moving Jetbike begins or ends its move in difficult terrain..." etc.

 

2) Charging rules (p. 21) - "Charging models still cannot move through friendly or enemy models, cannot pass through gaps narrower than their base, and cannot move into base contact with a unit they are not charging"

 

3) Jump Units (bear with me) (p. 47) - "When using its jump pack (whether moving, charging or falling back, as we'll discuss in a moment) a model can move over all other models and all terrain freely"

 

So Jump Units that use their jump packs in the assault phase can leap over intervening models and charge as long as they can see their target. Trouble is a lack of a specific permissive clause for jetbikes; however the "always move over all other models" bit in their rules seems to tally with "when using its jump pack...a model can move over all other models" from the jump infantry bit.

[Memento Of Prospero]

Mephiston just got lolzier.

[Ushtarador]

I think I'd agree with admetus on that one.. while it once again seems like an oversight from GW, I would argue that a charge move is still a move, and as it says "Jetbikes can always move over all other models..." he would be able to ignore the knight standing in the way. But yeah, that's definitely one for the faq ^^

[Jolemai]

Take it over to the OR?

[Morticon]

Game 5  - Hammer and Anvil - Big Guns Never Tire - VS. Tyranids

 

 

2x Dakka-Flyrants

2x 2 Hive Guard

1x Doom-spore

2x 10 Gants

2x Tervies

2x 15 Super-gargs.

2x Biovores

 

The opponent was the same guy that tabled me in the first regionals of the year.  He's currently ranked 3rd in the country. 

 

For the first game, like ever, I managed to get first turn.  YAY.  I also got the choice of zone of deployment.  Mephiston rolled something lame again for WL, but the libby rolled scriers and "1" on the telepathy power table (where the nids must make LD checks to move, shoot or charge - GREAT for those gargoyles).

I pulled a sneaky by putting 2 of the objectives on high buildings- one in a watchtower, and the other on top of a building (that way my ravens could claim whether skimming or zooming!).

 

I set up like such:

http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb447/Brindleysa/Nationals%202013/IMG_5383_zps9f179a01.jpg 

 

The scouts I put into reserve along with the Knights (both outflankin).  The tactical marines I also put into reserve- walking on to late claim the objective i put behind the huge ruin. For the first time, i dont put guys into the ravens (not entirely sure why though, to be honest- there was a method in my madness!) Maybe it was because i was concerned the ravens would be shot down quickly- My opponent has this uncanny, uncanny ability to roll sixes.   The objectives are otherwise spread out far and wide.

 

He goes full deploy onto the table. 

 

In my turn I move forward, and take a few shots where possible.  There's not much damage done, as expected.

In his turn he comes at me aggressively! Luckily for me, his warlord doesnt get off Iron Arm (and takes a wound for his troubles!)

http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb447/Brindleysa/Nationals%202013/IMG_5384_zps71063a26.jpg

 

I take some hits on my razors quickly-losing one, having one immobed.  The bikers do very well saving against the Dakka-rant only losing a wound. They then get charged by the gargs! 

Mephy fails to get his wings off, so his options are limited- he also loses a wound <_<

Scriers works, and i bring on the ravens, keep off the scouts, the tacs, and fail to bring on the Knights (3x 2s).

 

The Warlord is targeted with extreme prejudice and goes down in a hail of Raven firepower- part in parcel thanks to the DA libby reducing his cover save with Auspex ;)  The other Tyrant got a bit luckier with FNP and his jinks and survived the turn - he also didnt get grounded- i spent the rest of my firing trying to ground him, even throwing bolter shots, and pistol shots just to try get him down so mephy could have a go.  No luck- he made all his grounding saves. 

Mephy had no choice.

My libby and other attack bikes charge into the gargs, wiping them out, thanks to their distance from synapse. 

Mephy does exceptionally poorly in combat and only kills 2 gargs. 

http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb447/Brindleysa/Nationals%202013/IMG_5385_zpsf656aaf7.jpg

 

In his turn, the doom comes down.  He repositions some stuff, but forgets/fails to move his Tyrant due to the pressure :P He spawns some gaunts, the one Tervy freezing up, the other being good to go. 

I take some hits on the ravens - not being able to jink thanks to those blasted Hive Guard.  <_< The doom fails to do any wounds thanks to decent rolling on my side.  In combat, Mephy goes down cheaply <_< 

 

In my turn, I dont think I manage to get off scriers again thanks to doom. But the everything comes on.  I bring the scouts on in the top left behind a building, the Knights behind the other terrain on top right, where the Biovores are- as well as the other objective.

Im now forcing him to fight quite split up. 

The one raven I put into hover, the other I move forward, guns blazing. 

The DA Libby and attack bikers I move around the closest building to charge the hiveguard and gants.  if pays off.  I also take out the hive tyrant, and the Knights make short work of the biovores.

Its not looking toooo bad, though there are still loads of nids on the board. 

 

http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb447/Brindleysa/Nationals%202013/IMG_5386_zps77c7bc58.jpg

 

In his turn, he moves doom around, trying to suck souls of various duders about, he repositions to reinforce the rear where the Knights have entered.  He spawns more gaunts to tackle the knights. The ravens stay alive! Doom takes 2 wounds from my guys.  The bikers fight it out more with the hiveguard, and the Axe libby is doing well for himself.  

Not knowing the stats of the Knights so well, he charges the gants in- they take serious damage and do nothing in return, the Knights then hit and run towards the Hive Guard (the only real threat to my Ravens).  The other Hive Guard go down to the lib. 

 

In my turn, the Knights make quick work of the Guard. Im ignoring the tervy for the most part, cause i know I cant do enough damage yet.  I reposition my ravens to take ID shots on the Doom- but none of them make it.  The rest of my AC shots go into critters. My scouts head into a building to stay safe for a turn or two.  A squad of gants breaks thanks to being out of synapse though.

My battle rages on with the gants -> 

http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb447/Brindleysa/Nationals%202013/IMG_5387_zpsf6ae6e88.jpg

 

In the next turn, he starts making a bee-line for the tacs at the rear objective with  Doom.  He positions guys to shoot and charge the Knights. 

They take a wound or two, and get charged, staying alive and then hit-and-running again back to the objective. 

 

I still dont manage to take out doom.  

In the next few turns, my models take some serious heat, I bring out the scouts to contest the rear objective.  The Tervy charges them, they challenge with the Sarge, and hopefully stay to contest.  Unfortunately, the game goes on another turn.  My last knight is being chopped up good!

http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb447/Brindleysa/Nationals%202013/IMG_5389_zpsfc121367.jpg

I cant remember exactly what happened to my Libby and attack bike squad <_< No idea actually. Really cant remember. 

 

He reinforced all he could to take the rear objectives.  The Tervy sits on the other one after routing the scouts some more! 

The remaining gants on the bottom left where the libby and attack bikes are, make a dive for the building.  They go in, and run up to the top. 

I also pop doom, finally!

In my 6th turn, i shoot as many of them off the bastion as i can.  They're defs out of synapse range, so they fall back down to the bottom. 

In his final turn, he regroups his single gant.  The gant needs a 4+ to get to the top of the building and get out in order to contest the objective.  

He fails though - rollin a 2.

The game ends. 

 

Im sitting on the rear objective with the Tacs.  

He has the Tervy objective in the top left, and top right. 

But I have the Ravens scoring the high objectives in the building.

http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb447/Brindleysa/Nationals%202013/IMG_5390_zps4a44961e.jpg

He has FB and WL, I have WL and +1 Heavy. 

 

The total :  8-11 to me. 

Tight, tight game. 

[librisrouge]

Wow, that last game seemed like it wasn't so close but he pulled off some serious threats near the end there. Doooooomm!

 

Well played sir.

[Morticon]

Yeah man! Those gaunts that kept respawning were hell - i think the big squad he spawned is what took out the libby and attack bikes.  Almost ended in a draw!

[Morticon]

Last mish vs. the necrons coming up soon. 

[Ushtarador]

Nice game there:)

 

I just finished a 2 day tourni, finished 8/22, quite happy with myself. Played necrons 3 times damn buggers, but only lost a single game versus dark eldar because he managed to actually kill a raven with a quadgun..(3 glances even though i had a coversave)

Furiosos were amazing as usual, I would still never run without my hurricane bolters, and some people are very surprised when they take first turn and you only deploy mephi and some scouts :P

[Jolemai]

Take it over to the OR?

Anything you want to add Morticon?

[Morticon]

 

Take it over to the OR?

Anything you want to add Morticon?

Shotto dude! 

Nah, im keen to see what people will say.  

[Morticon]

Sorry for the delay all!!!

 

Okay, Game 6 - this was against one of the best players from upcountry (and fellow ex-BA player/board member Ron1n) - it was also by far my favourite game of the tournament. 

 

Pitched Battle - Crusade-  4 Objectives

 

His list:

 

Lord - Bling,

Barge

Lord - Bling

 

5x Deathmarks w/ 2 Teks with flamey death

Scythe

5x Deathmarks w/ 2 Teks with flamey death

Scythe

5x Deathmarks w/ 2 Teks with flamey death

Scythe

 

<_<

 

5x Warriors w/ Tek with something

Arc

5x Warriors w/ Tek with something

Arc

 

Tesla Barge

Tesla Barge

 

 

 

PREGAME:  I rolled precog for the libby, and Scriers.  Mephy didnt get anything special for his trait.  1st turn would be nightfight, and Ronin got both side, and first turn selection.

 

He deployed like such: 

http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb447/Brindleysa/Nationals%202013/IMG_5391_zps6ed4678b.jpg

 

I deployed my scouts on the board (hoping to draw fire, and then go to ground in the ruins), my razors- with everyone out of the vehicles and either in Ravens or walking on board. The knights I also put into reserve to outflank. 

My right flank looked like such:  

http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb447/Brindleysa/Nationals%202013/IMG_5393_zps2c19d7c9.jpg

 

Left flank was a razor, and the scouts in the upper building, and then middle was the HB bikers with the biker libby.  supporting a razor.

 

 

His first turn was largely ineffectual thanks to nightfight and some crazy good saves from my side.  He did move in very aggressively with his lord and his barges. 

 

http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb447/Brindleysa/Nationals%202013/IMG_5395_zps39488f75.jpg

 

My first turn came, and i got some lucky shots with the ACs, dinging the Overlords pimpmobile. 

Mephy jumped up to the top ruin to avoid flamer shots from evil hunters from space.

 

 

His second turn saw everything of his come on. One DM squad marked Meph, the other the biker libby (and because hes part of the squad the squad too) and the other who did not get out of their vehicle did not choose a target.  

 

Small side note:   I didnt know my cron rules well enough at the time, and kinda wish I did because it seems like there's an important nuance regarding the Deathmarks - it says they need to pick their target when deployed - but upon closer inspection of all the rules, their deployment is when they arrive with their transport- not when they "disembark".  Not exaaaactly game changing, but important overall i think.  

 

I take some heat this turn, losing the scouts and a razor - Mephy does well enough to not take damage.

Lord gets out to charge the vehicle to death!

 

In my turn two, i keep the Tacs off, and the Bikers off, but make sure the Ravens come on.

My razor remains under the ruin, and the bikers remain back, trading shots with the arc. 

The las and MM combo manage to take down the arc! whoo hoo!

The Ravens take down one skimmer, and make 2 more jink- but his saves are great on the one and all his damage is averted <_< I also shoot the Lord down, but he gets back up again! 

http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb447/Brindleysa/Nationals%202013/IMG_5396_zps208c4dff.jpg

 

If im not mistaken, i charge his death marks with mephy - not ideal, but their positioning behind the wall, meant that id only take damage from 1 model and the evil flamers.  It was either that or have meph shot at again in the next turn. There was still a DM squad in the scythe too which could put the hurt on.  Luckily i only take 4 wounds <_< could have been worse.  Could have been better, but could have been worse.  I hope his T, and armour save will keep me alive.  Mephy continues to chop up the squad, they hang around though. 

 

In his turn he moves his other scythe to support the right flank, and the lord to the libby biker. 

The barges focus on the Ravens, while the 3rd DM squad targets my poor MM bikers (and chooses to mark them). 

 

He brings down a raven with lucky tesla shots <_< All but one model survives.  He destroys my attack bikes, and charges my biker squad. He takes off some wounds, but the libby puts him down - yay!! Mephy keeps fighting the baddies- they stay locked - luckily for him - Think he needed a 5 and he got it <_< 

 

My turn 3, the Knights come on - and it is here that I believe I lose the game.  This I believe was my tactical blunder that cost me the game.

 

I underestimate the DMs - or rather I overfocus on the troops that are out in the open after being shot out of the left flank arc.   So, I bring the knights on to take them out - instead of the DM squad that is way in the open.  Its actually painful for me to type this now, thinking about how stupid a decision that was <_< 

Anyway, my raven boosts off on account of no targets. 

 

I realise how useless my HB bolters are in this situation, and my liby and surviving guys move up to engage the arc. 

The Knights wipe out the tek and the squad  - obvs.  Mephy wipes out the cron squad <_< and then moves into "cover". I think i stun the arc or something. 

 

In his turn, stuff move about- i think one scythe moves off.  Mephy gets blasted by the DMs, adn the Knights start taking flack as do the remaining squads near the bottom right objective.

Stuff starts taking serious heat.

 

In my next turn, my remaining knights move up and my raven blasts on targeting his scythe on the board.  

It works!

The knights unfortunately only take out 1 or 2 Immortals and cant charge them as theyve fled to the safety of the 2nd level of the ruin.

http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb447/Brindleysa/Nationals%202013/IMG_5398_zpsd5a5074d.jpg

 

http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb447/Brindleysa/Nationals%202013/IMG_5399_zpsf985525a.jpg

The next few phases he cleans up what he can, focussing heavily on my troopers scoring- and takes that out.  My raven survives, but is now immobed. I skies of blood out of the raven on route in, but they mishap.  The turns continue, and there is a small fight in the middle, the libby eventually losing.   It is now down to the one squad holding the objective in his quadrant.  We check to the rules to see if the mishap skies of blood guys come in walking or striking - its decided as walking- this means that in the 6th/7th turn, theres no way I am able to get to my objective and he sits on his. with 3 immortals.

 

Score is 6-1 to him.  

 

 

 

 

[Morticon]

Feedback:

 

 

 

Overall the tournament was great.  The quality of gaming was much better than the year before (overall) and the variation of armies was plentiful. 

The terrain was good, but maybe a little too low on the top tables, and not strongly considered for all mission layouts. 

 

My Army:

 

Thanks to everyone that suggested the Knights- it was definitely the right call in this meta. The bastions would have defs, defs helped, for sure! But, i think for what i came up against, it was good.  

 

 

The Bad:

 

The HB attack bikes.  By far the only unit that was just sub-par all the way through :(  I thought by having the divination combo with the HBs they would be great, but in too many situations their inability to deal with mech when i needed them made it feel like a waste.  I really needed at least 1 MM in this unit.  No idea where I would have gotten the points though.

 

The scouts!! I  really liked them, but only really in 1 game did I use their rifles.  The rest of the time they were outflanking.  I really liked the outflanking option in a tournament. I like the options it gave me, but I felt maybe they should have shotguns or CCWs, though.  Id like to maybe consider a bigger squad of them in the future.

 

 

The Good:

 

The DA Libby - yoh.  What a freaking superstar. This guy turned out to be a lynch pin even more than Meph- not in damage, but in support.  

Lvl 2 is amazing.  

The bike is GREAT,

auspex is great and the axe (contrary to some other views discussed in the list forum) really turned out to be the better option.  

This unit was really great and something I'd like to consider in every serious list I play. 

 

The Ravens -as per usual, amazing.  Nothing "new" here.  Tried, tested and reliable. 

 

The Ugly: 

 

Mephiston.  Good god.  Wow.  Even in the game vs. the crons, where he was shut down, i still feel the enemy had to invest a lot into him to take him down.  

In the game vs. the DA bikers- the entire 1750 point army shot at him.  In the ork game he just waded through people.   In the Tau game he got shut down pretty hard, and i think this was partly my fault.  I should have been more aggressive. But overall, he's the ultimate tourney unit.  

I think his flexibility and killypower and resilience all outweigh his weaknesses that come into playing some lists.  The fact that your opponent needs to play diff too, helps you! 

 

 

Anyway- thanks for staying with me this long! And thanks for reading/all the support.  

 

Feel free to ask any questions :) 

[R0N1N]

Okay, Game 6 - this was against one of the best players from upcountry (and fellow ex-BA player/board member Ron1n) - it was also by far my favourite game of the tournament.

Mort, this was one of my most memorable games of the tourney. Stormravens in general is the one unit I don't like at all because it can pretty much wipe 2 of my skimmers a turn. Lucky for me I jink-saved like a crazed daemon that 1st round. I still think you should not have charged Mehpiston into that whole unit of Deathmarks, those 2 despairteks with S8 AP1 flamers are made to kill guys like him for breakfast when getting charged, you were lucky to only loose 4 wounds on the charge

I have to agree, you should have focused those Knight bikers on the Deathmarks 1st, that would have saved Mephiston, and freed him up to take out the troops in the end.

The Crypteks in the ghost arks with the warriors were Stormteks. They each have a S5 Assault 4, Haywire weapon ("2-5" glance, "6" penetrate). Pretty handy to open up landraiders or any other armour on the battlefield in 1 turn of shooting.

I hope we see you next year in Johannesburg, a rematch is definitely required.

[Khorneeq]

Great battreps Mort, thanks for sharing.

As for me Mephiston never works (maybe not never, but in most cases ;) )

He has serious problem with Wolves- no wings cause of Rune Priests, with Guard blobs- there's too many models, with Grey Knights- their Force Weapons, Space Marines- Hammernators... and these are the armies I face most often ;) At least for me.

[Morticon]

Great battreps Mort, thanks for sharing.

As for me Mephiston never works (maybe not never, but in most cases )

He has serious problem with Wolves- no wings cause of Rune Priests, with Guard blobs- there's too many models, with Grey Knights- their Force Weapons, Space Marines- Hammernators... and these are the armies I face most often At least for me.

Wolves: He should be working 50% of the time vs. Wolves :P and the other 50% of the time either smashing up characters or running up behind vehicles.

Guard Blobs - understandable! But dont go for the blobs! I tank hunt with mephy. Or do, tie them up and then counter with something else.

GKs - Good positioning wins. Most GK have AP3 powerweapons. Vs. hammers, make sure you charge from the side and go into btb closest with a hammer model. Or challenge the hammer model if its a character. Meph should clear 5 GKs in the turn you charge.

SM - hammernators are his bane- any termies actually - but this means the opponent will need to meet your power piece with his, and you can coax him into using it that way! Otherwise, with his 12" movement, keep him away and focus on the other stuff.

Just as there will be a counter to these suggestions, so will there be a counter to the subsequent suggestions! Point is that with some consideration you can actually mitigate a huge portion of those concerns about meph.

[Captain Idaho]

I love this thread Mort. It's taught me quite a bit about different tactics I might not consider. In the case of Mephiston it's a case of using him as a scalpel unit when ordinary people just send him in the first opportunity they get. By extension I consider what I'd do to counter it etc.

[knife&fork]

Otherwise, with his 12" movement, keep him away and focus on the other stuff.  

 

See, this is where I find Mephiston lacking. With the general speed improvement in 6th a 12" move (together with the slight nerf to fleet) isn't what it used to be. 

 

If someone has trouble using Mephiston it's very likely because they are not using LoS blockers in their lists. He really needs some hulls to hide behind as he gets in position. 

 

Personally I always forget his transfixing gaze and precision strikes. :lol:

[Morticon]

Otherwise, with his 12" movement, keep him away and focus on the other stuff.

See, this is where I find Mephiston lacking. With the general speed improvement in 6th a 12" move (together with the slight nerf to fleet) isn't what it used to be.

If someone has trouble using Mephiston it's very likely because they are not using LoS blockers in their lists. He really needs some hulls to hide behind as he gets in position.

Personally I always forget his transfixing gaze and precision strikes.

I love me some sixes!! Precision strikes means you can nuke some evil special weapon wielding duders quite nicely ^_^

But, speed aside, im generally quite okay. Something I only realised a few months back (or had forgotten) is that Meph rerolls his run rolls too. So, you're looking at a fairly decent first turn movement. His initial placement is also super important, and if you're fortunate enough to play player-placed terrain, its almost in the bag - you just make sure he has a piece to hide behind, 24" up, and things are good.

For what its worth, the Vengeance Batteries are great for this approach too.