Nature vs. Nurture, the What If? edition

[Conn Eremon]

My image of Caliban is a world that uses advanced technology while their understanding of it is straight medieval. Using their tools, there isn't much Ferrus Manus can do to advance them, but he can make basic, rudimentary copies. They could get more advanced later on, but the most he could do is jumpstart the Industrial Revolution and spread it across the world of Caliban. Monsters hiding in the jungles? Burn those mothers down, use the ash as fuel, move on to the next.

 

As for the arms, it is how I see Medusan Ferrus Manus. This is the guy who single-mindedly hunted an apocalyptic dragon machine down and, with his bare hands, drowned him in lava. With. His bare. Hands. And this was on a world with advanced technology. So, out in the wilds of Caliban, I see him using his bare hands to hunt everything else down. Only, there's a lot of them and they are supernaturally tough. After all, the Lion had troubles with some of them, so should Ferrus Manus. He doesn't have his super awesome silver arms and he's young, so I damaged his arms and showed how most of his scars are on his front. Basically, showed a wicked warrior-kid who fought ferocious monsters with his bare hands and never once turns his back on them. Plus, I thought battered, bruised and broken arms was a nice alternative to his canon silver arms. 

 

As for the child thing, yeah, I was getting irritated at myself for not thinking of any other term to put in there, but I didn't want him to be 'young adult' age yet. But he isn't bigger than 'everyone else.' Just most kids his age. I was honestly thinking of him like a pre-teen with a buff young man's physique. If it gets extrapolated on, I'll try to make that more clear, but we'll see.

 

The whole idea came about when I was listening to some trailer music and one of the songs was titled 'Ironwing.' Couldn't get the idea out of my head once I saw that.

[Wade Garrett]

 

Think of Colchis as Mecca, but on a planetary scale. You won't be far off.

 

 

Or Vatican City.

 

And now I want the Word Bearer's Terminator elite to have feathered crests, baroque helmets with their armor, and power halberds. 

[Conn Eremon]

I've always thought of them as Babylonian, highly religious conglomeration of city-states where they all worship the same pantheon but each city-state places has its own ideas on the divine hierarchy.

 

I say Babylonian rather than Greek because of how obvious the authors are with the Babylonian naming mechanisms.

 

And now I can't get 'baby Ionian' out of my head.

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

 

 

Think of Colchis as Mecca, but on a planetary scale. You won't be far off.

 

 

Or Vatican City.

 

And now I want the Word Bearer's Terminator elite to have feathered crests, baroque helmets with their armor, and power halberds. 

Fulgrim or Roboute of Colchis?

[Wade Garrett]

Honestly, I was thinking of the Swiss Guard (the Pope's security detail and, if I am not mistaken, the only modern day bodyguard unit that is issued polearms). Roboute of Colchis would probably turn out like one of the more politically active Dark Ages Popes...the kind who would pointedly dictate to various nobility while still holding a mace splattered with the blood of those who took up arms against Mater Roma.

 

Fulgrim of Colchis....I remember a Black Library story mentioning a "High Decadent Period" of cathedral design in the Ecclesiarchy, somehow that's I all I can picture for that one. But his canon Phoenix Guard pretty much fit the bill.

[Brother-Sergeant Bohemond]

Pope's don't carry maces Wade, its against their rules to shed blood.

 

Now, staves, on the other hand...thats acceptable! ;)

[Adra'Melek]

Just a warning, this isn't meant to offend anyone but you can't do Colchis without religion.

 

Marodach [something]

Primarch of the IV Legiones Astartes - [not sure] The Inquisitors??

Perturabo - Colchis

 

"Faith is a crutch for the weak; the strong have no need of such device. The strong should strive to aid the weak so they may cast aside the crutch before they become bound to it" Marduk in Vharadesh before the Schism Wars

 

The great comet was heralded as the dawn of a new age. While a Covenant Pilgrimage travelled to the meteorite's crash site it came across a loan infant.  The leader of the Pilgrimage, Kor Phaeron, took the child in as an orphan foundling.  He named the child Marodach after an ancient Colchisian name and began tutoring him in the ways of the Covenant.  It became apparent very quickly that Marodach was no normal child as he grew physically at an exceptional rate. At first it was thought the child dumb as he did not speak. And then during one of his lessons on Covenant Dogma he spoke his first word..."Why?" And this set a precedent for the next period of his life. He absorbed as much informations as he could, from teachers, ancient texts, anywhere. Teachers than were initially pleased with the keen interest and application so became frustrated when their answers were not enough. "It is a matter of faith" wouldn't satisfy the man.

 

At first they would beat him, although this never seemed to have any effect.  Marodach would go out into the city and watch the people. When he returned he would ask more questions and became more frustrated with the answers.  Finally Kor Phaeron took his son aside and spoke to him about the matters of faith and acceptance. Marodach was not swayed and in frustration Kor Phaeron struck out. At this point Marodach left the Covenant compound and only returned under very different circumstances.  He began to speak to the people, encouraging them to question, to think for themselves, to forgot the Dogma they lived their lives by. Some shouted him down, others listened thoughtfully. As his message spread and civil unrest grew, the Covenant began to worry and they soldiers to kill Marodach quickly and quietly. Although it too late, he towered over the tallest man, and easily dispatched the assassins. Enraged by the attempted murder the young Primarch and his followers stormed the Citadel.  Driven by a curiosity to seek out the forbidden regions of the keep he had never seen, Marodach lead his followers deeper and deeper. Drawn on by strange chanting that made his skin crawl, they came across a horrific scene. Scores of prisoners were tied to alters awaiting ritual slaughter. Holding the knife was Marodach father, Kor Phaeron. As the blade began to fall to the first victim Marodach moved quicker than humanly possible, gripping his father's wrist easily in a huge hand. He ordered his men to take the priests prisoner and released the captives.

 

There was trial and the death sentences carried out. At this point Marodach vowed to end the Covenant on Colchis, freeing the people from it's oppressive regime. His calculating mind turned to war he began devising uses for mining and farming implements, flamer throwers used for funeral pyres, developed mining explosives for launching projectiles, he instructed smiths in the manufacture of armour to turn the weapons of his enemies. Using his armies to apply force at his enemies weak points he quickly crushed the opposition. He began to hear himself referred to as saviour, messiah. To these statements he would repeat his first works. Why? He may aid them in freeing themselves from religious tyranny but he is no prophesied returning God.

 

Once the final bastion of the Coventant had fallen the task of rebuilding began. Marodach worked at building self-sustaining governing bodies that were accountable to the people. He set up universities in all the major cities and held open forum debates and discussions in city plazas. The planet prospered at a rapid rate with the Dogmatic and superstitious beliefs holding back progress and enlightenment. This is what the Emperor found when he arrived at Colchis with XXX. The planet was beacon and template of the Imperial Truth and what it could achieve. After lengthy discussion with the Emperor, Marodach and the planet willingly joined the Empire and became the base for the IV Legiones Astartes.  These Marodach renamed the XXX (Inquisitors???).

 

So the basic principle is that on Olympia Perturabo knew that his 'father' was a tyrant and didn't fall in with them. I see as due to his clear and logical thinking. The same should be true raised in a religious community. Also I tried to leave a little open in terms of heresy. Does he stay true to the Imperial Truth. Or is he convinced by the arguments that warp entities exist and the Emperor is trying to make himself such an entity or God?

 

It's a bit rough and needs some fleshing out but reasonably happy with the concept.

[Wade Garrett]

Pope's don't carry maces Wade, its against their rules to shed blood.

Now, staves, on the other hand...thats acceptable!

Nah, a mace is a blunt weapon and was, historically, one of the self defense tools certain militant priests and bishops carried for smiting the heretics, infidels, and people who fell asleep during the liturgy because it passed the "No blood shed" test. (For a very rules lawerly definition of "Doesn't shed the enemy's blood")

[Brother-Sergeant Bohemond]

I knew staves and the like were acceptable, didn't realise maces were as they were more likely to cause blood, learn something new every day!

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

Honestly, I was thinking of the Swiss Guard (the Pope's security detail and, if I am not mistaken, the only modern day bodyguard unit that is issued polearms). Roboute of Colchis would probably turn out like one of the more politically active Dark Ages Popes...the kind who would pointedly dictate to various nobility while still holding a mace splattered with the blood of those who took up arms against Mater Roma.

 

Fulgrim of Colchis....I remember a Black Library story mentioning a "High Decadent Period" of cathedral design in the Ecclesiarchy, somehow that's I all I can picture for that one. But his canon Phoenix Guard pretty much fit the bill.

That's the image I got, but I was thinking which Primarchs would establish a swiss guard eske legion.

[Adra'Melek]

Robourte MacGyver?

[Wade Garrett]

@Thunor:

 

The only issue I see with Colchis Pert is that if asked "How do you know your gods exist?" Kor Phaeron  can submit some pretty convincing evidence besides "It's a matter of faith, son."

 

Since the rites and rituals of Chaos worship do yield tangible results. Not always very NICE results, tis true, but tangible nonetheless. Although I suppose it depends on how much power he had already, and how much he learned after accompanying the Seventeenth Legion to the stars.

[Emperor's Furor]

Don't forget Perturabo had an unique ability to stare through space, he could see the eye of terror from just about any where.

[FunkyMonkey]

Lol, honestly, Perturabo's ability is a bit strange, and actually pretty interesting given that before Angel Exterminatus was released, he seemed like one the least likely primarchs to be concerned with psykers, the warp, and the like.

[depthcharge12]

Heh, the polearms are just for show.

 

The swiss gaurd evidently pack a lot of heat, have an extensive armory, and are drawn from the swiss elite.

 

 

Nothing worse then getting beaten up by a guy who pulls a corkscrew out of his standard issue knife to shank the bejeezus outta you.

[Wade Garrett]

Heh, the polearms are just for show.

.

I don't have any hard evidence to back this up, but:

You're a Swiss Guard. You spend all day parading around with that halberd, as fine a combination of axe and spear as man's ingenuity ever invented. And you don't think the thought "Man, wouldn't it be awesome to hit some with this thing." is going to start percolating around in the old grey matter?

[depthcharge12]

Heh, the polearms are just for show.

.

I don't have any hard evidence to back this up, but:

You're a Swiss Guard. You spend all day parading around with that halberd, as fine a combination of axe and spear as man's ingenuity ever invented. And you don't think the thought "Man, wouldn't it be awesome to hit some with this thing." is going to start percolating around in the old grey matter?

Im sure thats why they are always on edge so to speak :D

they wouldnt think twice about choppin you like an ork if you step out of line though

I wonder if they really used them when Pope John Paul II took some bullets like a man and then forgave his assasin in the most awesome, humble trolololol move ever

"Excuse me sir, I need to AXE you a question!"

[Ace Debonair]

I wonder if they really used them when Pope John Paul II took some bullets like a man and then forgave his assasin in the most awesome, humble trolololol move ever

Darn it man, it's much to early in the morning to make me laugh aloud like that.

As to who could make a Swiss Guard bodyguard equivalent, I could also see Horus and maybe Dorn (perhaps if it was drawn from some tradition native to the planet, Dorn strikes me as the traditionalist sort) coming up with Swiss Guard-esque terminators.

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

And then have a rhino or land raider made out of bullet proof glass?

[no I'm alpharius]

Rhino with a plexiglass cage on top for some wizened psyker/astropath type inside.

 

Can drop a pie plate "FIST OF AN ANGRY GOD-EMPEROR" onto the table.

 

Can't let him get too near to the younger, scout units. He gets distracted.

[Conn Eremon]

Cast your votes, folks!

[Adra'Melek]

Wade, I going with the idea the Colchis old faith was not fully formed and it was the meeting with variations of it around that ultimately led to Cadia and the Eye of Terror.

 

Like I said, I'm leaving it open to either

A) realises it was true and starts performing scientific experiments to determine which parts of the ritual are active ingredients.

B) realises it was based on truth but sees them as warp xenos type things...or something. Not sure.

[Emperor's Furor]

I would of thought with the fact Perturabo could see the gate way to the gods (eye of terror) he may of been open to worshipping them, but venerating them in creating temples and places of worth himself as opposed to the more dogmatic lecturing and preaching that Lorgar would of done. Without the visions Lorgar had of the Emperor it's reasonable to assume he to could of fell straight into worshiping the "pantheon" of gods Colchis's old faith had.

 

It's the vision Lorgar receives that is the most defining moment of molding his character imo, if it hadn't been for that then Lorgar would most likely of fell into worshipping the Old Faith (perhaps that's what the chaos gods wanted), likewise if Perturabo had landed there and saw the eye of terror and told his adopted father who knows what the people would of thought of him.

[Adra'Melek]

Yeah, I forgot that thing with the Eye of Terror.

[Kol Saresk]

I would of thought with the fact Perturabo could see the gate way to the gods (eye of terror) he may of been open to worshipping them, but venerating them in creating temples and places of worth himself as opposed to the more dogmatic lecturing and preaching that Lorgar would of done. Without the visions Lorgar had of the Emperor it's reasonable to assume he to could of fell straight into worshiping the "pantheon" of gods Colchis's old faith had.

It's the vision Lorgar receives that is the most defining moment of molding his character imo, if it hadn't been for that then Lorgar would most likely of fell into worshipping the Old Faith (perhaps that's what the chaos gods wanted), likewise if Perturabo had landed there and saw the eye of terror and told his adopted father who knows what the people would of thought of him.

Just because you can see your god, doesn't mean you will have faith in him. Look at the Night Lords.