Combating eldar wraithguard

[Rafen IX]

Hey all,

New to posting to the forums here. I've read alot of your posts and picked up numerous pearls of wisdom. Ive had a painted hodge podge Blood Angel army for many years but only recently I've started playing with them. I tend to play against nids and eldar recently (although the eldar player is starting a DA army, plasma, plasma everywhere...). Yesterday I had made a fun list to go against the bid player and ended up facing the an anti marine eldar list.

It didn't go swimmingly.

Now I've read that BA aren't strong at 1000pts but any tips tricks or general tactics would be appreciated.

Next time I was planning on fielding something like this

 

 

A libby

5x DC in rhino

10man tactical squad in rhino

10 man jumpers

5man scouts

devs

vindy

 

Maybe dropping the vind for a whirlwind.

I'm very wary of his wraithguard. He's kitted them out with the ap2 flamer and they throw out ungodly firepower in range.

[Memento Of Prospero]

Wraithguard are tough. But Mephiston is tougher once he gets there. The issue is not to have him get shot and ID'd by the wraith cannons.

 

A better solution is probably sternguard. They will wipe clean a squad in one turn.

[Taranis]

The wraithguard should be dinner for the vindicator. The trick is then protecting it long enough for it to do the job without neglecting something else.

Cover saves could come from:

The rhino's hull's, enough infantry or shield of Sanguinius from the Librarian.

 

Another trick is choosing to roll in the BRB. Prescience re roll on the vindicator is nasty.:)

 

What else did he field?:)

[Rafen IX]

He was running

 

Farseer

Shadowseer

5 wraithguard

2x guardians squads

3 reapers

Wave serpent

2 war walkers

Fire prism

 

I think mephiston is a little steep in 1000pts but I'll definitely try it out lol

[Kythnos]

He was running

 

Farseer

Shadowseer

5 wraithguard

2x guardians squads

3 reapers

Wave serpent

2 war walkers

Fire prism

 

I think mephiston is a little steep in 1000pts but I'll definitely try it out lol

 

Without any upgrades except for the D-Scythes for the Wraithguard, he's already at 1010 points - and I'd guess he had some upgrades in other places of his army as well. So he was definitely over the points limit.

[Grey Mage]

T6, 3+ save, one wound....

 

*shrugs* Units of five.... killem with plasma guns, at range.

 

Now if hes smart, theyll be in a waveserpent, and killing that is going to be the real trick- nothing, really I mean it nothing, beats massed missile fire for taking down wave serpents in my experience, but a quadgun will do in a pinch.

[Rafen IX]

Your spot on chap, they were in the wave serpent allowing them alot more manuverability. I'll set the devastaors up with some missiles and roll with that. Might stick the Libby with divination there as well, hmm

[Xenith]

The WG when disembarking from a waverserpent, if your Eldar player is decent, will be in cover with at least a 3+ cover save, due to the primaris conceal on the spiritseer. Plama just dont cut it.

 

Charge with a bait unit, draw out their overwatch and then go in with something else.

 

5 D Scythes will statistically ID Mephiston on the overwatch every single time.

 

The amount of firepower you need to dislodge them is disproportionate to the reward for killing them.

 

I'd say its best to concede the objective that they are parked on (they can do nothing outside their 8" template range) and wipe the rest of the army, which will be ~450pts down after the nulling of this unit.

 

Also, Eldar hate whirlwinds.

 

They can reliably eat a scoring unit per turn (aside from wraithguard)

[Kanis]

As I play both Angels and Eldar, I agree with Xenith here. If that Craftworlder is worth his salt he'll deploy them into a hard to dislodge area and most things Astartes can throw at them turn to dust, even Mephiston doesn't like charging them. I'd say avoid them best you can and go after the rest of his force, especially as it looks quite light and relatively thin-ranked. My thoughts, and good luck regardless!

[Zeller]

The best way to kill WG is melee. I haven't fought the melee versions with my BA yet but I played plenty of games against the plain WG. Vindicators worked great too until they got into cover. Dreadnoughts in melee work too but again I haven't fought the new eldar with my BA yet. Scout snipers rarely worked in my experience. I'd suggest MMAB to kill that fire prism. 

 

Frankly, the idea of using a big tough character unit to kill them is to me a rather wasteful strategy. 

[Xenith]

The best way to kill WG is melee. I haven't fought the melee versions with my BA yet but I played plenty of games against the plain WG. Vindicators worked great too until they got into cover. Dreadnoughts in melee work too but again I haven't fought the new eldar with my BA yet. 

 

Did you check the description for the DScythe? Each WG model on average puts out 2 S4 AP2 overwatch hits on an assaulting unit, which penetrate/insta-kill on a 6 to wound.

 

Charging a squad of 5, on average:

A dreadnought will likely suffer 1-2 penetrating hits before it makes combat

Mephiston will take 10 S4AP2 hits, if one of those 10 dice roll a 6 to wound, he dies

A 10 man assault squad will see 5 members die, which will most likely leave them out of charge range

[Jolemai]

Assault the Wraithguard, shoot the Scytheguard.

 

At least that's what I do. Just don't show the Wraithguard too much respect and hold back too long...

[redhorse]

I don't think anybody else has mentioned it so I'll throw this idea at you: STERNGUARD!

Despite being 'more'( we do get cheaper combi guns) expensive than codex sterngaurd, blood angels sternguard are still good. Take 8 , that is $200( ha, ha!) so you've still got 800 for the rest of your army. They really, really have a ton of utility. Use their poison shots, you'll wound on 2's and this will come in handy if he throws a wraithlord or wraithknight your way, you have a unit that is threatening. 

Personally, I think this is your best option, not because I suggested it, but because I play competitively on a regular basis and they are great always come in handy no matter what you are facing due to special issue ammo. If you put them in a drop pod and also have missile devastatorsl, you have  a ton of synergy between these two units. Missile devs can pop open your mates wave serpent and then your drop podding sternguard can proceed to rapid fire the crap outta his wraithguard with their poison bolters.  All on your turn one. 

[TheHarrower]

Every time I played them, I just avoided them which wasn't too hard to do since their guns have such short range. Take out the Wave Serpent and just stay out of their way.

 

I think mephiston is a little steep in 1000pts but I'll definitely try it out lol

 

I find Mephiston much better in lower point games. Most people don't have enough stuff that can deal with him.

[Rafen IX]

Thanks to everyone for replying. I'm new to this and didn't expect so much help lol.

We've progressed to 1,500 points now but avoid (aka kill the wave serpent) and stern gaurd sound like valid tactics.

[Dafoo]

Vindicator, Plasma Cannons, Missile Launcher and the occasional super flamer on a Baal Pred have all helped me take these guys out in the past. I have an Eldar player who loves his Wraith army I have 2 or more of what I posted whenever he might be across tje table from me.

[MadMek83]

Honorguard with plasma attached libby with prescience is good way to deal those once wraithguard is out of Serpent. Note that Serpents shield won't work shooting attacks from behind and is av 10. its best way to deal serpents: Shoot 'em from behind.

[Daddywarcrimes]

Prescience is cute and all, but what you want is Perfect Timing, to deny the Wraithguard their augmented cover saves.

[Calnus]

True, against Eldar, with all their Shrouded and improved Jink, I'd take Perfect Timing over Prescience every game.

 

Against anyone else?  Prescience all the way.

[Daddywarcrimes]

I tend to find Perfect timing is also better against IG, Orks, and Tau.  Really, anyone that isn't wearing power armor tends to rely heavily on cover saves. Almost anyone who's wearing power armor doesn't have the tools to get good cover saves anyway.

 

Edit:  And anyone else wearing power armor is going to die like a dog under an avalanche of hammerfists from a blob of Death Company.

[redhorse]

Perfect timing comes in handy all the time. 

[skawolf]

well, since you increased the points in the game I would say take a unit of 10 sternguard, 4x combi-melta, 4x combi-plasma, 1x meltagun and 1x plasmagun in a drop pod. It's almost 350 points (I think, don't have my codex to be sure), but will wreck their day. You drop in, combat squad based upon weapon type (melta/plasma), pop the serpent with the melta team and open up with rapid firing plasma on the wraithguard inside..... It works in theory anyway.

 

It may seem to be a lot of points to take out one unit, but after you do this (1st turn) you sternguard are then free to roam the field being as destructive as sternguard are wont to be. Good luck :D

 

P.S... I love sternguard.

[Memento Of Prospero]

Speical weapons are useless against them. they effectively have a permanent cover save when played right. Poison Rounds will kill them all just the same. 3+/2+ at rapidfire range will murder them regardless of their 3+ save.

[Calnus]

The Hellfire rounds (ones that wound on 2+) are ideal for big creatures, as you just keep making them take saves.  Wraithguard fall into that same problem category for me, considering a unit of WG is about as tough as a Carnifex or Tervigon. 

 

I know its been said to death, but volume of fire will average out better than quality.  So if I get a choice between putting 10-ish wounds on with AP6 or 5-ish with AP2, I'll go with the AP6 weapon every time.  Its also psychological, as the opponent dreads making each save, knowing there is more than enough wounds to wipe the unit if they fail most of them.

[skawolf]

Speical weapons are useless against them. they effectively have a permanent cover save when played right. Poison Rounds will kill them all just the same. 3+/2+ at rapidfire range will murder them regardless of their 3+ save.

I was not aware, thanks. I have an Eldar army, yet don't own any elder codex. I just like to paint them.