Scribe Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 Yeah, we wont know until ADB (because I doubt anyone else will get a chance) writes the Night Lord HH book, but thats at least part of my theory on the Legion. There was a logical reason for their behavior and Cruze got results that where favorable, for a time. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280697-the-finer-points-of-heresy-fluff/page/2/#findComment-3471816 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Furor Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 This is why I can't wait for the next book this weekend, I really want to see how they started out. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280697-the-finer-points-of-heresy-fluff/page/2/#findComment-3471859 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flint13 Posted September 23, 2013 Author Share Posted September 23, 2013 That makes sense. Even Sevatar talks about how Curze was more stable (IIRC he actually uses the word "noble") when he first came to the Legion, and says Konrad is losing it as the Crusade and the Heresy after that drags on. And when Mr. "I eat eyeballs and torture loyalists to create my own devoted minions" thinks you're losing it, well... GAH! I've had this conversation before (and Kol Saresk can back me up on this). Sevatar did not eat eyeballs... those were the parts he didn't like, so he left them for his crow buddies ^_^  @WoT - One thing I noticed that had sort of eluded the general player base for quite awhile was the pre-heresy color scheme. IIRC, Index Astartes shows them with the same bronze/brass and blue that the post heresy marines display. In the trailer though, they have a pretty awesome blue and black scheme going. Not a big shift, like Wordbearers or Thousand Sons, but pretty neat, nonetheless.  @ Scribe - I like the idea of a primarch who turned into a weapon that eventually got out of the Emperor's control. I like Kurze's story the most out of all the primarchs, simply because, from his point of view, the Emperor is fallible. So many of the HH stories paint him as the ultimate paragon of mankind. He's stronger than all of his sons in every conceivable way. And everyone knows a character with no flaws makes for a bad story ^_^ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280697-the-finer-points-of-heresy-fluff/page/2/#findComment-3471874 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 That makes sense. Even Sevatar talks about how Curze was more stable (IIRC he actually uses the word "noble") when he first came to the Legion, and says Konrad is losing it as the Crusade and the Heresy after that drags on. And when Mr. "I eat eyeballs and torture loyalists to create my own devoted minions" thinks you're losing it, well... GAH! I've had this conversation before (and Kol Saresk can back me up on this). Sevatar did not eat eyeballs... those were the parts he didn't like, so he left them for his crow buddies He tried them at least once, but didn't like the dreams he had afterwards. And in my opinion, eyeball eating is one of those actions that justifies, how does the old joke go: "I've been farming these fields my entire life, but when people see me, do they say 'Oh, there's Joe the Farmer!' No. I've been married to the same woman for twenty years and raised five kids, but do they say 'There's Joe the family man'? NO! But you [redacted] one [redacted] and you're a [redacted] for the rest of your life!" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280697-the-finer-points-of-heresy-fluff/page/2/#findComment-3471885 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 Yeah pretty sure its clear in the text he ate eyeballs, hence the visions and seizures or some such. I'm going to read Prince of Crows again tonight actually... That makes sense. Even Sevatar talks about how Curze was more stable (IIRC he actually uses the word "noble") when he first came to the Legion, and says Konrad is losing it as the Crusade and the Heresy after that drags on. And when Mr. "I eat eyeballs and torture loyalists to create my own devoted minions" thinks you're losing it, well... @ Scribe - I like the idea of a primarch who turned into a weapon that eventually got out of the Emperor's control. I like Kurze's story the most out of all the primarchs, simply because, from his point of view, the Emperor is fallible. So many of the HH stories paint him as the ultimate paragon of mankind. He's stronger than all of his sons in every conceivable way. And everyone knows a character with no flaws makes for a bad story Indeed, thats how I see Curze, but even more so Angron. I do not feel either Legion was ever fully loyal to the Emperor, though I think at the start, Curze wanted something better for Humanity, Angron...never cared. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280697-the-finer-points-of-heresy-fluff/page/2/#findComment-3471981 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 Well, it's a mixture of both. Page 403 of Prince of Crows(easy way to find it is go to epilogue, then go back a page) says that Sevatar never ate the eyeballs. Exact wording. It then says that he never ate them because he had tried once and they had made him see things. Â So he did at least try to eat them once. But he never tried again. Thus, he never ate eyeballs. Â As for the Emperor, I said something like this once before. I believe Demus Ragnok has it sigged. Â Â He is humanity personified in a way nothing else is. He is our bloodthirst, our envy, our love, our mercy, our logic, our nihilism and our hypocrisy. Thus not only was he perfect, but his very perfection is what made him imperfect. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280697-the-finer-points-of-heresy-fluff/page/2/#findComment-3471993 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 Ok ok, so he took a bite of an eyeball? :p Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280697-the-finer-points-of-heresy-fluff/page/2/#findComment-3472011 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 Sevatar Eyebiter has a nice ring to it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280697-the-finer-points-of-heresy-fluff/page/2/#findComment-3472041 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyall Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 Dibs on the trademark, I'm doing a stuffed animal with that name. Children'll love him, though one hug is all they'll get. Â On the Atramentar, we see Malek and one or two other Atramentar Terminators in ADB's trilogy. They're said to have a sabretooth skull on their shoulderpads, though whether it's a real skull or armor decoration I don't recall. Sevatar is the leader of the Atramentar, but he's so far been confined to his Power Armour. Then again, mixed squads weren't that strange before the Heresy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280697-the-finer-points-of-heresy-fluff/page/2/#findComment-3472146 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 Not to mention it actually does make sense that'd he'd get in fast, and then pull the Atramentar to him with the beacon in his chain-glaive. Can you imagine how that'd work out? Â Sevatar burst into the room. Ten heavy-caliber machine guns were aimed at him, their targeting lasers occasionally flashing over his eye lenses. Â "Give up! Y-y-you'll never win! Th-th-there's too many of us!" The rat of a planetary governor screamed from behind his men. Â "Don't worry, I have a monster for each of you." He smiled as the boom-clang of a teleport sounded throughout the room. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280697-the-finer-points-of-heresy-fluff/page/2/#findComment-3472156 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyall Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 Indeed, makes perfect sense. In fact, I seem to recall no Terminator-wearing kyroptera, so I think it's not that wrong to say the Night Lords viewed Terminators as a mailed fist that the enemy with the browned pantaloons can't see coming. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280697-the-finer-points-of-heresy-fluff/page/2/#findComment-3472165 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flint13 Posted September 23, 2013 Author Share Posted September 23, 2013 That would give good reason behind the FW heresy models getting teleport homers. The combos I can see pulling off with tactical marines and non-scattering terminators makes me a bit giddy.  @Scribe - The whole eyeball eating "debate" is a running joke among a few friends. No actual criticism intended ^_^ I'll totally agree with you on Angron. He and Kurze seemed to have a lot in common in both the origins of their upbringing and their eventual return to the fold of the Imperium. The main difference I see is that Angron had no choice in the matter. Once the Emperor found him again, he had already undergone the implantation of the Nails, and seemed to be declining into savagery. I'll give that a good vote for being quite tragic as well. To me, it seemed like the Emperor showed up, saw the state Angron was in, and basically said "Well, this one is almost done, lets see what use I can get out of him before he implodes."  *Grimdark!* Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280697-the-finer-points-of-heresy-fluff/page/2/#findComment-3472362 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 In my opinion the difference between Curze and Angron is the difference between submitting to one's fate (Curze, in becoming the tyrant Nostromo deserved if not the one it ever wanted, allowing M'Shen to take his head, etc.) and taking up arms against it (Angron's wars against the high riders, then the Emperor, and finally the universe in general). Â Of course, this isn't an absolute...you can say that Curze was trying to defy his fate when he threw himself into duels with the Lion and tried to force Vulkan to kill him, and that Angron submitted to his fate of becoming the mad for slaughter daemon the Nucerians intended to create the moment they drove the Butcher's Nails in his skull. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280697-the-finer-points-of-heresy-fluff/page/2/#findComment-3472377 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyall Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 Is the eating part that troubling unless it falls into cannibalism territory? Â I mean, Astartes were made to 'eat' their enemies' memories. It's not a very sane feature to begin with... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280697-the-finer-points-of-heresy-fluff/page/2/#findComment-3472384 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 Is the eating part that troubling unless it falls into cannibalism territory? Â I mean, Astartes were made to 'eat' their enemies' memories. It's not a very sane feature to begin with... Â It is considering that Sev was doing it while he was still a little kid scampering around the highways and byways of his homeworld like Grimdark Oliver Twist. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280697-the-finer-points-of-heresy-fluff/page/2/#findComment-3472396 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyall Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 Oh, I wasn't aware of that, I just assumed it took place during his Astartes years. So aye, it's revolting. Â I'll be glad once Sevvy dies, no matter how interesting psycho characters are, they're always better with a few tons of dirt on top and large gash in their stomachs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280697-the-finer-points-of-heresy-fluff/page/2/#findComment-3472401 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 You actually know how Magnus lost his eye? Â Â Some punk named sevatar kicked him where the warp dont shine and took his eyeball to eat before he came to. Â Â Aaaaaaand thats why Magnus never tells the truth of why he lost it :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280697-the-finer-points-of-heresy-fluff/page/2/#findComment-3472459 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyall Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 I think Sevatar might've been scarier than Curze, if he was a Primarch. He seems to be much more focused. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280697-the-finer-points-of-heresy-fluff/page/2/#findComment-3472463 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 Oh, I wasn't aware of that, I just assumed it took place during his Astartes years. So aye, it's revolting. I'll be glad once Sevvy dies, no matter how interesting psycho characters are, they're always better with a few tons of dirt on top and large gash in their stomachs. You made a sad panda. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280697-the-finer-points-of-heresy-fluff/page/2/#findComment-3472516 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyall Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 It's mostly a matter of me having a good-guy-complex. If I wish for a psycho to die, it usually means he was a very well-done psycho. Sort of a quality seal. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280697-the-finer-points-of-heresy-fluff/page/2/#findComment-3472527 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 Â It's mostly a matter of me having a good-guy-complex. If I wish for a psycho to die, it usually means he was a very well-done psycho. Sort of a quality seal. :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280697-the-finer-points-of-heresy-fluff/page/2/#findComment-3472533 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 In my opinion the difference between Curze and Angron is the difference between submitting to one's fate (Curze, in becoming the tyrant Nostromo deserved if not the one it ever wanted, allowing M'Shen to take his head, etc.) and taking up arms against it (Angron's wars against the high riders, then the Emperor, and finally the universe in general). Â Of course, this isn't an absolute...you can say that Curze was trying to defy his fate when he threw himself into duels with the Lion and tried to force Vulkan to kill him, and that Angron submitted to his fate of becoming the mad for slaughter daemon the Nucerians intended to create the moment they drove the Butcher's Nails in his skull. Â I think Curze wanted to be a good guy, his feeling of being bound by fate just broke him eventually. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280697-the-finer-points-of-heresy-fluff/page/2/#findComment-3472586 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Furor Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 I think Sevatar is going to fall to Sigismund. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280697-the-finer-points-of-heresy-fluff/page/2/#findComment-3472646 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 And sigismund will fall to Khârn.   Whos still around in 40k? What was that siggy? I couldn't hear you over BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!!! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280697-the-finer-points-of-heresy-fluff/page/2/#findComment-3472650 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyall Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 Along with Khan...? I don't know, aren't those two too big to be taken out by the same guy? I want to see Sigismund's killing spree handled with care, not him taking on 7 champs at once and hurricanrana-ing them all. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280697-the-finer-points-of-heresy-fluff/page/2/#findComment-3472655 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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