*Furyou Miko Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 I just finished Blood of Asaheim today. I had been avoiding it, because I don't generally seek out Space Wolf books. However, I have been told many times that this Asaheim has a great depiction of the Sisters of Battle. Having read it... I am simply disappointed. The Sisters never do... well, anything, really, on screen. Their involvement seems mostly to involve keeping secrets, working for the Inquisition, regretting not breaking their oaths (ugh) and doubting the Emperor (what the hell?. Where the Wolves kill "thousands", a squad of five Sisters with flamers and a Palatine are commended for killing "dozens". Where the wolves survive, the Sisters die like guardsmen. Where the Wolves fortify the city in under a day, the Sisters apparently make no siege preparations whatsoever in the month they have before that. Where the wolves hunt down chaos marines and plague-saboteurs, the only Sororitas Burn Team we see working just... fails. The Palatine who is supposed to be our sympathetic eye into the Sororitas' main achievement is to kill some of her own Sisters, who had done nothing wrong, in order to destroy Inquisitorial secrets that she then gave away anyway. All in all, I think I'd rather the Sisters hadn't even appeared rather than getting this treatment. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281312-blood-of-asaheim/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warsmith Aznable Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 But Miko, don't you know that martyrdom is DEEP? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281312-blood-of-asaheim/#findComment-3483412 Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Furyou Miko Posted October 2, 2013 Author Share Posted October 2, 2013 To be a martyr, you have to believe in what you're dying for. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281312-blood-of-asaheim/#findComment-3483497 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warsmith Aznable Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 This is what I was going on about the other day, when I mentioned the "woman in the fridge" trope. I did enjoy Hammer & Anvil OK, though. We should do a thread and asked to have it pinned, one that lists novels or short stories with Sisters/Ecclesiarcy in them. Like, where to find the story, synopsis of it, and whether it promotes faith in the Emperor or not. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281312-blood-of-asaheim/#findComment-3483563 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvih Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 I haven't read many 40k books yet - in fact, only three. Of those two, Helsreach and Legion of the Damned had SoB in them. It does seem there's no huge love for Sisters with the marine writers based on those two plus what I've heard about other books. In Helsreach it's more that they're kinda glossed over. Their depiction in battle is mostly a few gruesome death descriptions and the leader's "rallying cry." In LotD... well, I suppose the depictation wasn't outright terrible, but the sisters on the graveyard world did come off as kinda uppity (in itself not so bad) and their combat record wasn't all that great either, even though the writer again didn't go into too much detail for the most part. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281312-blood-of-asaheim/#findComment-3483582 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinnerBeta Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 And that's why I don't read BL books where my favourite factions are the side heroes. Or anything Space Wolf-centric in general. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281312-blood-of-asaheim/#findComment-3483731 Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Furyou Miko Posted October 3, 2013 Author Share Posted October 3, 2013 Ugh, Helsreach. After reading Grimmaldus' entry in the new SM codex, I was half afraid they'd have been cut out of that book entirely - it mentions his 'heroic defence' of Helsreach until he gets sat on by a building, and makes it sound like that's all there was to the entire encounter, rather than the weeks-long siege where the Order of our Martyred Lady held off the horde and protected the hive. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281312-blood-of-asaheim/#findComment-3483834 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 I think your first sentence says it all. The moment Space Wolves appear then you know it's going to be little more than an exercise in Marty Stu to the expense of everything else. A lot of the stories seem to get hung up on cliché and tropes as a crutch for actual story telling, so it shouldn't come as much of a surprise when Sisters are reduced to martyrdom and little more. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281312-blood-of-asaheim/#findComment-3484078 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinnerBeta Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Well to be fair, fluff-wise Marines are supposed to be gods of war, capable of overcoming impossible odds that the "normal" human soldiers, no matter how elite on their own, couldn't. It's ok for them to kill more, defend better, etc - the problem starts for me when rather than just Marines being, well, Marines and BETTER than the other faction, the other army is basically incompetent. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281312-blood-of-asaheim/#findComment-3484275 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Indeed, if you reduce other factions into incompetence to make your favourite look better by comparison you also diminish them and their supposedly heroic achievements. Apparently many authors are unaware of this of which makes me very sad every time I encounter it. As for Marines, yes have them be the gods of war they are meant to be but for the love of Terra anyone but Space Wolves. They're the special snow flake Marine army if you're too cool for codex school... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281312-blood-of-asaheim/#findComment-3484351 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinnerBeta Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Well, most writers aren't military geniuses, merely people like you and me. So when the main party needs to pull of some omggolly geehax genius manoeuvre, it's usually something very basic 101 military tactics. But for it to be exclusive to the heroes, the rest of the characters can't even know that simple 101, and hence the incompetence. Also screw Sister portray in Cain books. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281312-blood-of-asaheim/#findComment-3484365 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 I'm not sure why military knowledge is relevant? I'm talking about how the antagonist/other factions are portrayed. This is the difference between having your heroes defeating a well organised/credible threat/dangerous/etc opponent or beating a load of Saturday morning cartoon villains who make blundering mistakes and ignore the obvious. You don't have to detail every part of a flawlessly accurate military manoeuvre to have someone appear competent. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281312-blood-of-asaheim/#findComment-3484412 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinnerBeta Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 I explained it in my previous post. Since heroes need to be the ones best, others need to be worse. And since in this case the good guys are competent at best (since some people can't come up with something better), the rest must be incompetent to make basic competence seem awesome. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281312-blood-of-asaheim/#findComment-3484482 Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Furyou Miko Posted October 3, 2013 Author Share Posted October 3, 2013 Ah, I see. The Adam West, Batman argument. I don't have a problem with the SWolves killing a thousand cultists with the mark of nurgle. I have a problem with the idea that a bigger squad of Sisters with lots of special weapons would only manage to kill "dozens" of the same. Even on the tabletop, where everything is less epic and numerous than in the literature, a full-strength flamer dominion squad led by a Palatine could be reasonably expected to wipe out a 50-strong cultist squad in two turns, so surely in an engagement lasting several hours, with the assistance of a platoon of guardsmen, they should have been able to kill many, many more than that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281312-blood-of-asaheim/#findComment-3484578 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Would it be fair to say that the short story "Daemonblood" is the only time ever a Sister's unyielding faith got to be more useful than a Space Marine's SPACE MARINE MARINES IN SPACE SPESS MUHREEN BOLTERS AND MUSCLES HOOAH? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281312-blood-of-asaheim/#findComment-3484594 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Orlock Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 No, but it might be fair to claim that's the only commercially published tale that satisfys that criteria. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281312-blood-of-asaheim/#findComment-3484611 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Sturgeon's law comes to mind when talking about such narrative crutches. I just can't fathom how they can't see and avoid them, unless they don't properly plan or something equally bad. Life is far too short for a bad book. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281312-blood-of-asaheim/#findComment-3484650 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dread Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Didn't they do a lot of damage at the end of Faith and Fire? It's what I remember, may need to re-read. Like they stormed the stronghold and blasted their way in, killing off all that stood in their way to get to the mayor type dude. Oh well, writers take a lot of liberties. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281312-blood-of-asaheim/#findComment-3484666 Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Furyou Miko Posted October 3, 2013 Author Share Posted October 3, 2013 At the end of Faith and Fire, they stormed a stronghold, got captured, broke free and fought their way out except for the protagonist and her love interest, who ended up winning out by virtue of the Shield of Faith protecting them from a souped-up psychic attack, followed by an overheating plasma pistol used as a projectile weapon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281312-blood-of-asaheim/#findComment-3484693 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bjorn Firewalker Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 At the end of Faith and Fire, they stormed a stronghold, got captured, broke free and fought their way out except for the protagonist and her love interest, who ended up winning out by virtue of the Shield of Faith protecting them from a souped-up psychic attack, followed by an overheating plasma pistol used as a projectile weapon. Miriya and Verity are lesbians? Was their relationship described as such in the novel, or by the author in an interview- maybe a throwaway line in his blog? Or is this fan speculation? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281312-blood-of-asaheim/#findComment-3485132 Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Furyou Miko Posted October 4, 2013 Author Share Posted October 4, 2013 Under normal narrative structures, Verity took the role that would be taken by the love interest, whether that relationship is explored or not... however, given that the book ended with them promising to stay together and holding hands while looking out into the void and the future... and that at the start of the next book, they have taken an assignment to go off to a remote location together (Verity very much against the advice of her superiors)... I'd say that the only thing stopping them making out in the corridors is the fact that they're religious fanatics who know that seeking pleasure will lead them into the waiting arms of the ruinous powers. Of course, your mileage may vary. For my part, while I'm usually fully supportive of books that offer romantic freedom, in this case it actually cheapens the relationship and makes the books seem like they're pandering to the lowest common denominator (the teenage boy who likes the idea of lesbian nuns). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281312-blood-of-asaheim/#findComment-3485139 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 To be fair, the sort of audience that tends to go in for that sort of thing will take any interaction between two characters, and I do mean ANY interaction, as grounds for "They want to have the sex!" I mean, I've seen fanworks out there of the Emperor and Horus. THE EMPEROR. HORUS. WHY. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281312-blood-of-asaheim/#findComment-3485154 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warsmith Aznable Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 It's been awhile since I've read that book, but I must have missed that. I tend to be blind to subtlety when it comes to relationship stuff, whether in fiction or IRL. Or I could just be so se against sexualising the Sisters that I subconsciously refused to see it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281312-blood-of-asaheim/#findComment-3485584 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight of the Raven Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 Ah, yes, Faith and Fire. A power-armored Miriya is incapacitated by a large thug (who licks her cheek because obviously all thugs want to do that), the whole covent goes to war against lousy planetary defence forces who couldn't even put down a rebellion of santa elves, and the next time it goes to war it's against people immune to flames. And then loses soldiers to earthquakes.Victory against incompetent enemies and then foes immune to your gimmick? That's a poor performance in my book. Or a sign that they're the red-headed stepchildren. They do fare better in Hammer and Anvil if I recall correctly. I'd like A D-B to write a book about the sisters, solely because he seems to have something few others in Black Library appear to have; professionalism. i.e. not writing with one hand about Roflstomporz the Awesome Protagonist and Lolpwned the Incompetent Antagonist (or the other way round). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281312-blood-of-asaheim/#findComment-3485631 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 A. D-B. openly expressed his interest in doing a SoB book a while ago but I haven't heard anything about it since. Maybe some day. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281312-blood-of-asaheim/#findComment-3485713 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.