Unremembered Empire....initial review

[depthcharge12]

Also the very same Horus that made a beatstick out of Sanguinus, who was in the top tier of cc fighting.

 

 

He only got scratched once by him on his armor, but Temba?

[Greyall]

After reading the scene, I'm wondering why we don't just suspend any disbelief and bury any and all rant-threads against the Ultramarines. That was one of the awesomest things I've ever read on a HH novel. Well done, Mr. Abnett.

[Scribe]

Kol: Horus falling is dead easy. "A Wizard (AKA Chaos/Warp/Evil Weapon) did it."

 

Its not even in the same league. Depthcharge has it right, no need to try and toss in a cheap shot. Nobody is saying Rob sucks, or that he has a weakness that was exploited, people are saying he doesnt live up to the hype of a Primarch and in the face of others doing extraordinary things (including Rob in Betrayer) its simply not a 'believable' scene.

[Wade Garrett]

Temba wasn't just some fat dude..he was possesed by a Greater Daemon of Nurgle and wielding a magical sword of Killanything. And Lupercal still took his head off without taking more than a scratch in return, it's just that said scratch was enough to introduce magical Killanything poison into his bloodstream. That's what had him at deaths door, not "LOL Learn 2 Swrdfite Noob".

[Augustus]

I didn't see a problem with it.

[[TA]Typher]

I haven't read this book, but I'm curious if it's before or after the DA/NL confrontation in thalamas? It sounds like it happened before.... Of course it sounded very final.

[Scribe]

Its after for all intents and purposes. (I think?)

 

It (Thalamas) certainly wasnt a major plot point.

[Stonerhino]

Thalamas, was a "We need a reason for the Dark Angels to be not doing anything for a couple of years" thing.  But yay UR is post Thalamas.

 

As a side it also gives the reason why Vulcan Lives is before Thalamas and Vulcan does not show up until afterwards.

[Kol Saresk]

Ah, so it's okay for Temba because he has an anathame. But then when we get to Kor Phaeron who used sorcery, there's "Girlyman got beat up by an old man." And then when we get to ten Astartes(who we all know are somewhere near the pinnacle of genetic engineering in the creation of living weapons who's standard weapon fires high caliber, high velocity, high explosive, armor piercing, rocket-propelled rounds) of a Legion who specializes in doing the unexpected(and usually succeeding) and suddenly, ten Astartes attempting to do their job is unbelievable.

 

Okay, fair enough. You have all convinced me that you have apparently given Guilliman the fairest judgement of the court in all the land.

[Stonerhino]

People often assume I prefer Traitors. I don't prefer anyone - there's only one Legion I'm not keen on, and I avoid them completely - but sometimes you write what's left, because what you'd have chosen first of all has someone else's stickers all over it. I think the most commonly uttered words out of my mouth in meetings are: "I want to write about the Blood Angels."

You do realize that some fans, right now, are probably making detailed lists of which Legions you've written about, in an attempt to figure out which one you're not keen on?

That's easy. Its Space Wolves.

[Kol Saresk]

He's actually written Space Wolves. In both 30K and 40K. Maybe not SW-specific books, but written nonetheless.

[Stonerhino]

But that post was post Betrayer and he has said "Nails in the coffen for more SW stuff".  Since then (Betrayer's release).

[Conn Eremon]

He has also stated on this forum that, outside of certain fans, he likes the Wolves.

 

. . . Emperor's Children?

[Kol Saresk]

 

But that post was post Betrayer and he has said "Nails in the coffen for more SW stuff". Since then (Betrayer's release).

Considering all the hate he's gotten from the more fanatical Space Wolf fanboys, I don't blame him for not wanting to touch the subject.

 

I profess no knowledge of why A D-B is not writing Space Wolves.

[Stonerhino]

True as a SW fan I wouldn't want to touch them either. 

 

I'm just thinking back to when he said things like "I like all legions equally" to now with one he's "Not keen on".  And the SWs are the only one that I can think of with a reason for that to change. 

[Conn Eremon]

I got the impression that he meant that he has always avoided this Legion, meaning it's one has has never written on all that much. Considering how much he did with the Wolves in Betrayer, I'd say that discounts them. Besides, he has stated here that he likes the Wolves, just not certain fans.

[Kol Saresk]

Note: At any point in time, A D-B may come along an tell me I am wrong. I am merely speculating here so there is that chance.

 

But he's also said that he's avoided them completely. The Space Wolves have not been avoided. In fact, there was no reason for them to be in Betrayer except to add details, like showing how the XII had gone from a pack of war hounds to a group of rabid dogs. That's not avoiding, if anything it's like making the effort to include them.

 

The very next bit is that sometimes you have to write what's left, meaning you get stuck with it. Since the Wolves didn't have to be in Betrayer, I am more than willing to say(although I might be wrong) that disqualifies them from being forced. Currently the only Legions not to have their own HH books are the Night Lords, Iron Hands and Imperial Fists. If we want to stretch it, A D-B has a whole 40K trilogy for the VIII. So that just leaves Imperial Fists and Iron Hands.

 

EDIT: dangnabbit Cormac! Post before I try to make a whole long thought process! :P

[Stonerhino]

The "But sometimes you write what's left" means that he may have writen about them.  Because they were what was left. 

 

If he had said "I have always avoided them" then I would discount the Wolves.  If I had a second choice I would say Iron Hands.  But that's incuding my own bias of the iron Hands not being very exciting to read about. 

 

Edit:

I should have read the "New post".

 

Again I am saying the Wolves as "Not Keen to write about legion" because of the backlash he got from Betrayer.  Not something prior to that.  I would even support his discision to avoid them if he posts that I'm correct.  And I'm a SW fan.

[Kol Saresk]

Again, speculating. Don't count it as gospel or nothing.

 

Yeah, but the Wolves were not a necessary part to showing the degeneration for the World Eaters. That could be shown in a variety of ways from just having a pre-Angron Legion Master clanking around. Which, conveniently there just so happened to be. Nothing in Betrayer points to the Wolves being a forced issue. In fact, it points to them being a voluntary issue, so as to provide context for the Executioner tidbit from Prospero Burns by providing an event that no one talked about(check) and involved the Wolves fighting other Astartes pre-Heresy(check). That's voluntary, the same way Abnett having ten Alpha Legion play dress up(but thankfully without all the psycho-brainwashing of DL) was a voluntary part of the story.

 

EDIT: Just read your edit. Okay, true that might explain "not keen on", but I'm still a little iffy on "avoiding".

[Stonerhino]

The problem with the "Context for the Executioner tidbit" thing.  Is that the most important part of the quote from Prospero Burns is "The VI being sent to sanction another Legion".  Which is not addressed in Betrayer.  If anything it actually shows the SWs being more then capable of executing a Primarch.  If they had been ordered to do so.  If anything it adds context as to why Corax would exclude Russ from the Primarchs that could contend with Angron.  Basically because he already lost to him. 

 

ADB while being vocal about the SWs not being special has done more to support their executioner image then any other writer.  Excluding DA's first commenting on the subject.

 

Which makes the backlash all the more hurtfull. 

 

Alas with your comments on who has not been writen about.  I'm thinking it the Iron Hands tied with SWs as my first choice,

[Kol Saresk]

And Betrayer provides an examples of the Wolves actually fighting another Legion, but without it involving the Lost Legions, as many tried to speculate.

 

I'm actually voting for Imperial Fists. Not to be different or anything, but I don't recall A D-B ever really talking about the VII. But the same goes with the X. They both fit "being avoided entirely(before and after fanbase backlash)" and are also the only names left to draw from the hat, other than the Night Lords.

 

Who I'm hoping either go to Abnett(while OTT in certain bits, his portrayal of Curze was simply stellar), or Rob Sanders(based on his job in The Serpent Beneath with the Alpha Legion), and if he's as good as I'm hearing, Chris Wright. If A D-B is unavailable.

[Stonerhino]

‘There’s a first time for everything.’

‘Exactly,’ he grunts.

‘The unprecedented. Like… Astartes fighting Astartes? Like the Rout being called to sanction another Legion?’

‘That?’ he answers. He laughs, but it is a sad sound. ‘Hjolda, no. That’s not unprecedented.’

The underlined section is the real sticker.  You can't explain it away without either Russ joking (simplist answer) or another Legion being sactioned.  Which is not what happened in Betrayer.  Its part of the story that should have just been left alone.  As a stand alone statement it can be forgotten or wrote off.  But when you start allowing for the Wolves to have acted in matters simular but not including "Sanctioning".  Then it lends credit to the statment.  

[Cerbero666]

And Betrayer provides an examples of the Wolves actually fighting another Legion, but without it involving the Lost Legions, as many tried to speculate.

I'm actually voting for Imperial Fists. Not to be different or anything, but I don't recall A D-B ever really talking about the VII. But the same goes with the X. They both fit "being avoided entirely(before and after fanbase backlash)" and are also the only names left to draw from the hat, other than the Night Lords.

Who I'm hoping either go to Abnett(while OTT in certain bits, his portrayal of Curze was simply stellar), or Rob Sanders(based on his job in The Serpent Beneath with the Alpha Legion), and if he's as good as I'm hearing, Chris Wright. If A D-B is unavailable.

He praised Sigismund as a great warrior and put him in Butcher's Nails and Betrayer mentioned as a close brother with some of the World Eaters, and in Prince of Crows winning a duel against Sevatar because Sev cheated. It's true that he's an important character in the Heresy, but he still counts as an Imperial Fists, so it's something. There's a bunch of legions that I don't recall A-D-B writting about: White Scars, Iron Hands, Iron Warriors, but it's a madness triying to find out wich one is the Dembski-Bowden's Lost Legion

About Guilliman being cornered and shot down by a bunch of Astartes. I haven't read the last few pages in depth because I'm not that far away in the novel (chapter ten) and don't want to eat some spoilers for breakfast. But either way It could be the AL attack or that our wolf guys turned against Guilliman (what at this point I don't find unlikely). Well the thing is that Guilliman has been pretty damn well portrayed in this novel, not so long ago I complained about Robout being shielded by his awesomeness and that it was difficult to find a weak spot in him and a flaw in his character. But it's like Mr. Abnett has heard my prayers. He has written an interesting Guilliman, and he's interesting because he's not invulnerable, not physically nor mentally, he's far away from human but he's still human. I love the character of Euten because she stated it pretty well against Auguston. Being either the case of AL attack or SW attack when I only read the first so far, It could be concluded that Guilliman could have died by an attack of that characteristics. As Euten said if just one of that bullets would have reach his skull he would be dead for sure. I found that weird when I was reading it, a bullet to the head? the same guy that fought in the void without helm? the same guy who took a blow from Lorgar's Illuminarum to his bare head? But yes it makes sense if you think about it. An explosive bullet in the skull could certainly turn his head into a piñata, and we know thanks to Ferrus that not even a Primarch goes around easily without his head in his place, well except maybe Vulkan. Fulgrim took one to the head too in Angel Exterminatus but I can't remember if it was an explosive shell or not, a needle projectile IIRC, bad Nykona baaad.

[Kol Saresk]

 

 

‘There’s a first time for everything.’

‘Exactly,’ he grunts.

‘The unprecedented. Like… Astartes fighting Astartes? Like the Rout being called to sanction another Legion?’

‘That?’ he answers. He laughs, but it is a sad sound. ‘Hjolda, no. That’s not unprecedented.’

The underlined section is the real sticker. You can't explain it away without either Russ joking (simplist answer) or another Legion being sactioned. Which is not what happened in Betrayer. Its part of the story that should have just been left alone. As a stand alone statement it can be forgotten or wrote off. But when you start allowing for the Wolves to have acted in matters simular but not including "Sanctioning". Then it lends credit to the statment.

Actually it is official fluff that the World Eaters were sanctioned for using the Nails, and this fluff actually predates the current Heresy series. Not much detail was given other than it happened shortly after Angron joined the Legion. The Night of the Wolf is that sanction.

 

I think you're meaning that sanction means the destruction of a Legion and it doesn't. That's a consequence of certain sanctions, such as the Razing, and not a likely one as the Wolves are actually one of the smaller Legions, somewhere in the neighborhood of being comparative to the Thousand Sons Pre-Razing. All sanction means is punishment, not destruction. The Word Bearers were sanctioned by the Emperor himself at Monarchia for dragging their butts in the Great Crusade, which ironically led to the Heresy. As a result, they had a "Watch-Pack" of Custodes permanently attached to their Legion, in case firther samction was required.

[Greyall]

Has it not been made clear that Primarchs have no bulletproof skin? Or armour, for that matter. A Primarch's 'invulnerability' relies on him evading enemy rounds or killing said enemy before they fire. Which is much easier when you charge and have momentum in open ground, like Corax, than when ten bolters are aimed right at you from all the right angles.