Unremembered Empire....initial review

[Brother Captain Achilles]

Here's another thing. We've had ominous hints of a looming Imperium Secundus now for a while, with all the attendant conjecturing and apprehension of a less than loyal Guilliman capitalizing on the chaos of the Heresy. When I saw the title for this book, The Unremembered Empire, I knew that's what we were going to be delving into. An empire that obviously never came to be in the millennia after the Heresy, but one that needed to be "unremembered". I posted about it somewhere here in the B&C before reading the book.

 

But this book really needed to flesh out Guilliman's motivations for the Imperium Secundus. It needed more pages to really get into it. But the second half of the book took a complete turn into another direction with the loyalists' attempt at "Curze Control". So Abnett didn't have the time to really develop the ideas and rationale for the Imperium Secundus. And without that time, the idea just really stinks.

 

Let's pretend there's a World War and you're a sailor on an American battleship. Your battleship takes a hit and sinks, but your crew gets into the lifeboats and makes it to a deserted island. Once safely on the island, your captain calls everyone together for a pow wow.

 

"Crew," he says, "we're in trouble. We have no way off this island. In fact, there's a war on, and we don't even know if there's any fleet left. We don't know if our beloved nation is still standing. In fact, I think we need to assume that the fleet has sunk and America has been conquered. Sailors, I hereby declare this island, New America! We are all that's left! We must keep the dream alive!"

 

The crew looks around at each other, then shrugs. Sure, why not. "Viva New America!"

 

"Oh yeah," says the captain, "and I get to pick the new president and make all the rules."

 

"Viva New America!"

 

...That, in essence, is Guilliman's argument and the response of all the loyalists.

 

A very promising subplot very nearly down the drain. Here's hoping someone else will come along and salvage it. ADB?

 

I think when you boil down anything you can marginalize its intended message past the point of being unrecognizable. I mean literally anything, but in this case its just the over simplification of a solid Idea. Imperium Secondus.

 

Scale is important to perspective. This isnt the crew of a ship. Its The 500 Worlds of Ultramar which in 30k is the majority of Ultima Segmentum. effectively half of the Galaxy. The intention is laid rather plain by Guilliman, If Terra has fallen then we will hold onto what we have left here from Macragge.

 

Now as for how the rest of the Imperium treats this is where interpretation comes from. But Guillimans intention is made clear. If we can re-establish communications from Terra then all of this is bunk. But if not, if my worst case theory is correct. Then we will have a plan, and be better prepared than if we just sat here doing nothing while waiting the storm out. 

 

I think Abnett does a solid job explaining this so I am not really sure where it could seem less than fleshed out as a concept. As far as Cruze taking all the thunder of the narrative once he makes landfall on Macragge. I dont see how you can ignore any primarch running amok on your planet. Least of all the one primarch best suited given his origins to ravaging a city on his own. He is the prime threat at the time and its important to deal with him with full focus and maximum prejudice.

 

 

Now in an earlier post you mention the "comicbook" portral of this conflict seems below the setting or too childish. Its important to remember as others have pointed out that this is a story meant to drive the sale of little toy soldiers. Is it a good book regardless? for certain. But its about an alternate reality set 30,000 years in the future where genetically engineered super humans do battle across the Galaxy under the command of more genetically engineered Demi-gods in a civil war precipitated by the outside corruption of half of the Demi-gods by a group of extra-dimensional beings spawned from the coalesced emotions and actions of that very same galaxy pooling in an aether realm and becoming sentient. These emotion-energy-beings are also hell bent on destroying/enslaving the very galaxy that spawned them and the only thing stopping them is a magical human space wizard spawned from the group suicide of human shamans in a plot to defeat these same "Gods" set in motion at the birth of their species. 

 

 

Man if that isnt a comic book plot than I dont know what is. And while that story can be deep in the interactions between its characters and those interactions themselves can rise above their own source material as meaningful, its still set within that same comicbook esque universe.

[FerociousBeast]

Not necessarily. The devil (or in this case the comic book) is in the details.

 

One of my beefs with 40k in the past decade is that it's turned more and more from nightmare, sci-fi, dystopian horror to a more consumer-friendly, video-game-esque model that I'm not as interested in. Before anyone gets offended again, that's just me and my preferences. Y'all like it now, that's fine. But to me, 40k is John Blanche and Rick Priestly. And John Blanche is not X-Men.

[Kais Klip]

Same here, despite my earlier congratulations, I was really looking forward to this book being THE book on grimdark politics, with all the teased large primarch cast verbally duking it out a la Betrayer Angron's courage-and-honour speech (which I say again in no small exaggeration was the most emotionaly stimulating paragraph I have read in a long few years). However seeing as I was more interested in "bolter-porn" then the political variety only a few years ago I understand if the ol' literary chairmen of BL were wary of pulling another... Flight of the Einsestein(?) after hyping up the novel for so long.

 

Just dissapointed with the missed opportunity for some table turning/paint selling debate or an insight into the group primarch mind-set.

 

But again, UR is still a great Abnett read, especially that drop pod scene. It seemed a book of extremes, from its cast turnout to the gritty down-to-earth Guilliman +10 part to Curze's haxing.

 

Still expecting another KNF though, there's still some juice in that heartbeat-bump real-time lemon. The second to last chapter of the series, perhaps.

[Brother Captain Achilles]

Not necessarily. The devil (or in this case the comic book) is in the details.

 

One of my beefs with 40k in the past decade is that it's turned more and more from nightmare, sci-fi, dystopian horror to a more consumer-friendly, video-game-esque model that I'm not as interested in. Before anyone gets offended again, that's just me and my preferences. Y'all like it now, that's fine. But to me, 40k is John Blanche and Rick Priestly. And John Blanche is not X-Men.

 

Thats a fair point, but 40k and 30k by extension have been having a bit of an overall tonal shift to more of a 2nd edition style. The grimdark is there but less in the characters and more in the setting. The setting itself is still Grimdark, the emperors favored son and half of his 18 primarchs are in open rebellion in alignment with evil space gods bent on universal destruction while commiting mass genocide and betrayal along the way. By that same token even the "good guys" are bio-engineered super men in the greatest dictatorship that the Galaxy has ever seen. 

 

I think a good deal of this dismay is many fellow veterans of 3rd edition 40k just want the 13th black crusade to be back. Anything that doesn't have that same tone just isn't ever going to be good enough. 

 

I just think some of the criticisms are less about this being a solid piece of Warhammer 30/40k lore and more about it not being part of the grand rebirth of 3rd edition style grimdark.

[Captain Idaho]

I really enjoyed this book and felt it answered so many questions as to the loyalty many of us have conjectured upon.

 

 

Guilliman really was doing the right thing and even agreed with his brothers on how to proceed, including travel to Terra if the opportunity was there (Ruinstorm permitting). People who've said otherwise were, well, wrong.

 

For my part, it looks like I was wrong about the Lion being so unstable. He's a mistrustful being of course but at least he's come to his senses after the big shock. Remember Guilliman acted rashly too so there is precedent.. And it looks like my prediction of the plans to stop Horus Guilliman had weren't thwarted by the Lion after all.

 

 

Of course anything can change. We'll have to just see what more twists and turns we might experience.

 

Good job, Black Library, good job. Oh and Abnett of course! ;)

[Karthak]

One character I really liked was Tarasha Euten. Like Curze said, she is something almost unique. A Primarch's mother.

[Greyall]

And what's best, Guilliman and her did have some "Mooooom, not now!" moments. Precious.

[Captain Idaho]

Guilliman's character and relationship with his brothers was well fleshed out. I really liked the relationship he built upon with the Lion, and we were shown exactly why none could get as close to the Lion; none really showed true honesty to him. Plus flattery works too.

 

Oh and

Guilliman acquitted himself nicely against Curze, drawing blood several times as well as cutting him to the bone. Perhaps he's a better fighter than even the Lion! ;)

 

[Greyall]

Know no Fear - written by the same Dan Abnett, no less - stated only four or five of the Primarchs could beat Guilly.

 

But it's a very hard assessment to make, circumstances and context rule in a fight, so...

[DuskRaider]

Except against Angron

We have to remember, every Primarch is on equal footing with one another. They all have their specialties. Where one may best the other in one duel, the outcome may be different in another.

[Greyall]

Aye, Curze and the Lion being the best examples so far.

 

And aye, Angron seems to be an exception at this point =p But hey, martial skill is his one redeeming quality.

[DuskRaider]

I have a feeling that Sanguinius will be putting Angron in his place at Terra. And I'm more a fan of World Eaters than Blood Angels. I see it being a precursor to show just how awesome Sanguinius is... before Horus smacks him around. To give the real sense of power Horus has.

[Greyall]

Current fluff has Sanguinius and Angron holding a staring contest (no, really, though it's suggested they're having a battle of wills) with Angron losing and walking away with a "Bah!"

[DuskRaider]

Yeah... but things have changed a bit. Sanguinius fought and defeated Khabanda on Signus Prime, didn't he? That was supposed to happen on Terra. Just have a feeling they're setting us up for something much bigger, and a Primarch battle would definitely do it.

[depthcharge12]

On terra though, Ka'bhanda beats up sanguinus and starts gloating,

 

 

but then sangy goes over 9000 and just breaks banda over his knee, like a Space Wolf boss.

[DuskRaider]

Well I thought in the original, Ka'Bhanda defeats Sanguinius on Signus Prime, but Sanguinius defeats Ka-Bhanda on Terra.

[Greyall]

Sanguinius does defeat Ka'Bhanda, but only after the daemon powerslams him to the ground and turns his back to gloat to the traitor troops. Then it's as Deptchcharge says, Sanguinius delivers an uppercut with his knee right to the daemon's spine and throws him into the traitors like the sack of crap he is.

[depthcharge12]

Sanguinius does defeat Ka'Bhanda, but only after the daemon powerslams him to the ground and turns his back to gloat to the traitor troops. Then it's as Deptchcharge says, Sanguinius delivers an uppercut with his knee right to the daemon's spine and throws him into the traitors like the sack of crap he is.

 

After throwing said body off the parapets of the palace, Sanguinus says to the onlookers:

 

 

"I've got 99 problems, but a 'Bhanda ain't one."

[spu00sed]

I really enjoyed it. Like others I thought Guilliman vs 10 marines shouldn't be a hard fight, but if they were infiltrator assassin specialists then maybe it would have been harder.

 

Anyway, one of my favourite parts is

 

 

“My lord,’ he said. ‘I am an Ultramarine. Trying too hard is the entire point of us, isn’t it?”

 

 

Just really made me chuckle.

[Captain Idaho]

Yeah the 10 Marine versus a Primarch thing didn't quite work for me in context to the rest of the series but I think it is a "rule of cool" thing from a literary perspective.

 

Curze struggled against 10 Wolves too, killing a single one and taking a beating too. He got hacked in the back remember! Not to mention Polux being able to fight off Curze in the dark.

 

It was a power level between authors really.

[Conn Eremon]

Current fluff has Sanguinius and Angron holding a staring contest (no, really, though it's suggested they're having a battle of wills) with Angron losing and walking away with a "Bah!"

 

God, that is hilarious, considering Angron's entire freaking purpose in the Siege was to counter Sanguinius.

 

I'm sure it wasn't an actual contest of wills. The two of them stared off at each other, tightening their muscles for the explosive first attack, when a droplet of blood-sweat dripped into Angron's eye. He blinks, and in a whirlwind of rage tears through a nearby wall into a mass of Angron-don't-care-who soldiers, Sanguinius entirely forgotten.

 

Lorgar's still sitting on the couch, pouting about it, ten thousand years later.

[Scribe]

Yeah... but things have changed a bit. Sanguinius fought and defeated Khabanda on Signus Prime, didn't he? That was supposed to happen on Terra. Just have a feeling they're setting us up for something much bigger, and a Primarch battle would definitely do it.

omg the rage I would feel if they did this...

[b1soul]

Overall I really enjoyed the novel

 

Pros

1. Vivid, skilfully written prose (as always...I expect no less from Dan Abnett, Chris Wraight, and ADB)

 

2. Fills in a blank area of 40K lore: What was Bobby up to after Calth, why wasn't he on Terra, what was he doing?

 

3. Good characterisation of Bobby and The Lion. Bobby isn't one of those edgy anti-heroes and bad boy primarchs. He's a classic hero in the mould of Captain Titus (of the Space Marine game). He really lives and breathes courage, honour, loyalty, duty, nobility. The Lion's distrustfulness and secretiveness are portrayed well. I loved the hunting scene with him and Curze in the bowels of the ship.

 

Cons

1. Too much Curze. I felt too many scenes served no other purpose than to paint Curze as a badass.

 

2. Primarch power levels are wonky. There seems to be a huge gap between Curze and Bobby/Vulkan. Vulkan is easily killed by basic Eldar weaponry. Vulkan, despite constant resurrection, barely manages to do any meaningul damage to Curze. Curze even seems to have the upperhand in the 1v2 fight against Bobby and The Lion. In Prince of Crows, The Lion singlehandedly renders Curze a near corpse in catatonic state. Against The Lion and Bobby, Curze should be very hard-pressed...yet Bobby and the Lion seem to be the ones in trouble

 

Some excuses can be made. Against the 10 Alpha marines, Bobby is wearing ceremonial plate, is unarmed, is more off-guard. Against Curze, Vulkan is wearing patched together armour from Bobby's personal collection and a weapon grabbed from the same. Still, Curze seems to be w@nked over 9000 compared to his loyalist counterparts.

 

3. Vulkan dies over and over again. I'm fine with Vulkan's condition as a Perpetual. If the xenos cabal can transform a regular human (John Grammaticus) into a Perpetual, I don't see why the Emperor can't engineer a primarch as a Perpetual. Vulkan and Grammaticus seems to be "man(xenos)-made" Perpetuals as opposed to "natural" Perpetuals (those born naturally as Perpetuals). 

 

That's all well and good. I'm crazy about Vulkan dying over and over again and consequently resurrecting over and over again. It seems a tad corny and rather unbefitting of a primarch.

[Wade Garrett]

Let me quote someone much more eloquent than I on the whole Super Curze thing:

 

"The Night Haunter was never exalted above us as a perfect, inmortal being! He was moribund and cursed, made stronger by the trials and agonies he endured. This," he finished, turning from Dan Abnett Slaa Neth, "is not how he lived. It is not how I will live either."

[Augustus]

Curze Almost Killed Dorn.

Curze had Corax run away from him

Curze goes 1-1-1 with the Lion

Curze tortures and kills Vulkan a million times

Curze able to nearly kill the Big Blue Boss alongside the Lion.

 

Maybe Sanguinius, the Khan, or Russ will be the one to make him limp off as there are only 3 more Loyalist primarchs he hasn't put

a hurting on yet.. Curze has an impressive resume nonetheless.