Unremembered Empire....initial review

[pingo]

@helterskelter: so ... much ... irony ... :P

 

Seriously though; one grammatical error in a book of thousands of words is pretty good. Books are made by humans, and humans are fallible. If an author, copyeditor, or proofreader says that can eliminate all errors, they are either a fool or a liar. Errors can break the flow if you notice them, but it's just something we have to live with. Best thing would be to tell BL so they can fix it for reprints or maybe even update the eBook. They'd probably be grateful.

[helterskelter]

Proving your point I only just noticed what I'd done there.. I blame ice cream eyes. :p

[Kol Saresk]

 

 

That sniper? Curze would get a vision of where that sniper was so he could sneak up and kill him.

 

His visions actually showing him how to prevent the bad things to come? That is definitely new. They were never quite as useful in previous sources.

 

 

The sniper(the Good Guy) dying is better than Curze(The Night Haunter; the Monster of Nostramo; the Guy who hangs bodies in his bedroom and talks to them) dodging a bullet and both walking away unharmed?

[Cerbero666]

Curze was the maker of his own fate. His visions are a curse because as has been said, it brings him horrible knowledge of the future. He knows how he's goint to die but, how many times has been Curze in fatal danger and has avoid that danger because of his visions? The thing is that he died in Tsagualsa and not in Macragge f'ex because he use the visions to avoid that situation. The visions are still a curse? Yes they are, probably they predict his dead or the way to avoid it. The visions are at the same time an advantage? Yes, they probably are. Does the new stuff in UE change anything about Curze? Probably not. He's still a damn mad psycopath driven insane by the visions of the things to come without control, he can use them, but they don't stop flowing in his mind, and most of them or all of them are about his own death, and the fate of the galaxy. He died in Tsagualsa because he was tired, and because his death there served to make a point against the Emperor and his rule, but he could have died any other time. There's a duality in the gift of Curze, it's a curse and at the same time and advantage. We can't say that his ability is totally good and that he is a badass thanks to it, because yes he can avois his death, and escape a ship, but he's condemned because of that same ability. And we can't say that the ability is totally bad, because he would have died several times if not for it. 

[Wade Garrett]

I agree with Legatus. Curze's visions have NEVER been shown as some kind of Ninja Combat Precognition, more of a "Here's this horrible thing that's going to happen. Try to prevent it (for example, by telling your pal Fulgrim about that galaxy spanning civil war you're foreseeing) and you just bring it about faster. HAVE FUN."

 

It'd be like if an author wrote that Mortarion could fly by waving his arms really, really fast. My reaction is more "What the hell is this now?" than "EMRAGAWD! EH FLYIN PRIMARCH! SO KEWL!"

[Conn Eremon]

Aye, Curze's visions in Unremembered Empire were extremely immediate and directly applicable to his current situation, which is new.

 

But his old visions were pretty dang specific and informative as well, and they hit him differently. The book pretty much just boosted the immediacy of the visions and limited them to the non-seizure-inducing ones. Still, quite advantageous and rather against the spirit of it, I think. But I wouldn't call it a major change.

[DuskRaider]

It'd be like if an author wrote that Mortarion could fly by waving his arms really, really fast.

Wait, you didn't know that?

[Kol Saresk]

Aye, Curze's visions in Unremembered Empire were extremely immediate and directly applicable to his current situation, which is new.

 

But his old visions were pretty dang specific and informative as well, and they hit him differently. The book pretty much just boosted the immediacy of the visions and limited them to the non-seizure-inducing ones. Still, quite advantageous and rather against the spirit of it, I think. But I wouldn't call it a major change.

There's also the fact of those visions being wrong or nonexistent in some cases. For every situation they helped him kill someone, there was also a situation where someone was able to injure him. Like the Demon in a Bottle being thrown in his face. He obviously saw that coming by the fact it was able to drag him in the warp and he walked away dripping blood by the gallon. Very advantageous right there.

 

Did he have an advantage? Yes. But was it a reliable, true advantage? No. It bit him as much as it allowed him to bite others.

[Conn Eremon]

Hey, I'm not switching sides. It was advantageous, but not all advantage, all the time. It either doesn't show him everything or it loses something in his interpretation, or a bit of both. But it did give him an edge, and there were times where he was on a roll. Personally, I'm glad I got a glimpse of the Night Haunter in his element. It was suitably terrifying.

[Ryza]

I quite liked the little touches Abnett puts in.

 

 

No common farmer would play a role in the final battle against Horus.

 

[Marshal Rohr]

I loved the scene with Eldrad at the bar. Where he freezes time and sits down so nonchalantly like he owns the place.

[Stonerhino]

 

 

That sniper? Curze would get a vision of where that sniper was so he could sneak up and kill him.

 

His visions actually showing him how to prevent the bad things to come? That is definitely new. They were never quite as useful in previous sources.

Not quite.  If you look at A Thousand Sons when Ahriman is talking about seeing visions of the future.  He states that the visions are shaped as much by the viewer as they are by the future.  If he is only really concern about death.  Then when he views their futures he sees their deaths.  Where as if he was concerned about their live's high point.  Would he still only see their deaths???  Remember Ahriman also said that simply by viewing the future, the viewer changes that future.

 

Visions of the future are not great.  Often without context or a complex riddle of a future that will never happen.  When Curze (perhaps not consciencly) focuses on killing Guilliman.  His visions seem to respond and aid him in that endever.  Then when he learns that Vulcan lives his visions change to help him with that task.  Just like his visions helped him when he needed to kill the Dark Angels to escape the Invincible Reason.

 

It is not entirely unreasonable to believe that Curze's vision would be more in line with Sanguinius'.  If he was not such a "Dark soul" to begin with.

[Wade Garrett]

Given how The Thousand Sons in general and his Rubric in particular turned out, you'll forgive me if I don't consider Ahriman an expert in prophecy and prognostication.

[Conn Eremon]

Which is kinda sad, considering that was his thing. That was completely his thing.

[b1soul]

@b1soul

 

I in no one was criticizing the Lion and Curze bouts. Hence why I said 1-1-1... That's one win. One loss. And one draw. So I don't really understand why you are justifying the fights.

 

Curze almost kills Dorn and that's a fact. How or what happened is mostly speculation. But I feel that is neither here nor there.

 

Curze takes on a fresh Guillimen and Lion in "Unremembered Empire" Corax chooses to flee (which goes perfectly with his philosophy of war)

 

The point of my post was that it shows that Curze has an impressive resume against other loyalist Primachs and that I hope maybe it will be Sang or another Primarch to make him limp off with his tail between his legs.

 

I apologize if my post came off as disingenuous (dunno what was meant by that) and if you thought I was being critical or obtuse.

 

You're citing these confrontations as evidence of how powerful Curze is ("his impressive resume")...how can you say context is neither here nor there?

 

We don't know how Curze "almost kills" Dorn. There's a world of difference between (a) the two start to shove each other, a fight breaks out, Curze outfights Dorn and (b ) Curze flips out and sucker-punches Dorn while Dorn is verbally berating him

 

Corax chooses to flee a disadvantageous situation (he's lost one of his claws and is in for a potential 1v2 if he hangs around). He doesn't flee because he thinks he can't beat Curze in a 1v1 duel.

 

None of the above really adds to Curze's "impressive resume".

 

What does add to his resume is his performace against the Lion in their first fight and his ability to hold off Guilliman and the Lion on Macragge. However, he doesn't outfight two enemy primarchs by any stretch of the imagination, he simply holds the off, detonates bombs, and makes his escape.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Change

Curze to Batman and "Knocked out" instead of "Killed" and not many

people would be upset. That's not even taking into account that Curze

has visions on top of being a super human.

Curze's

visions aren't an advantage, though. At least, they're not supposed to

be. They're not even a curse with a side order of an advantage. They're a

curse.

 

Yeah...maybe not in your books but in

Unremembered Empire, those visions are awfully helpful when Curze is

escaping from the Invincible Reason, one might even say they were

necessary for him to effect a successful escape

And yet

not enough to prevent the Lion or Vulkan from sneaking up on him. It

wasn't all advantage all the time, and where it made it seem like it

was, it described it more as a curse with an added benefit.

 

Right...so in Unremembered Empire, it is "a curse with a [large] side order of an advantage"

 

 

[Kol Saresk]

Lorgar was on the ground ready to die. Curze actually had to help him up off the ground and then shrugged him off. When Curze intervened, Corax was actually throwing the killing blow. And Corax also fled because he realized if he didn't punch a hole through the Night Lords' lines, the Raven Guard would die. So... yeah. He was really afraid of a 2v1 confrontation by Curze and GimpyLorgar.

[Emperor's Furor]

Kind of like the bit where Pollux with the help of the Warsmith holds Curze off and even wounds him, bit of payback for the attack on Dorn.

[pingo]

This seems to be going in circles. The only way to solve this is for BL to make Primarch Top Trumps, but I don't think anyone wants to see that.

 

Though ... on the other hand ...

[Augustus]

It is an impressive resume. Especially considering other primarchs.

 

Read Lightning Tower b1soul.

Malcador:"He nearly killed you."

Dorn:"Yes"

 

So your opinion may genuinely differ than mine but I still believe that Curze has a pretty long list of Primarch encounters. He's fought over half of them.

 

I don't think he is over powered. I don't recall saying it. He has a long list of encounters with loyalist Primachs in comparison and . That's a fact.

---

Edit: after rereading your posts we seem to have a semantic issue as well as a possible difference in opinion.

 

At of all the encounters I mentioned, Curze has come off in the better. (Except for 2 bouts with the Lion and when Vulkan plants a hammer in his face..which he sorta wanted) it was my hope that another loyalist Primarch would drive him off. So his primach fight/encounter/ resume is higher than any known other so far making it impressive along with the fact that he's come off looking good in the majority of them.

[Greyall]

Aye. And he's a brawler, an in-your-face fighter, which actually lends him a lot of skill in dodging attacks and getting inside his opponents' guard.

 

It's also worth noting - and has been pointed out - that Curze was completely in his environment during UE. An urban setting, at nighttime, and with the full knowledge that he wasn't going to die that day.

 

The brawl against the Space Wolves was the complete opposite. Confined space, nowhere to hide, multiple well-trained enemies all looking at him and a lack of proper armament to keep enemies at bay. Of course Curze wants his next victim at hand-reach, but not said victim's axe-wielding friends.

[Emperor's Furor]

I don't think he fought with Dorn, he just blacked out and went bat:cuss crazy on him, Dorn didn't fight back.

[Greyall]

That doesn't mean he didn't fight. That means he delivered so many tons of whopass Dorn's spine collapsed under the weight.

[Kol Saresk]

I don't think he fought with Dorn, he just blacked out and went bat:cuss crazy on him, Dorn didn't fight back.

You'd be surprised at how often the two can coincide with people. Prime example: The Nails.

[Marshal Rohr]

Kurze didn't black out, he escaped. He killed his guards before he fought Dorn.

[Greyall]

Second example: Khârn vs Erebus =p

 

PS: Actually, not sure Khârn vs Erebus qualifies, but the 8th Captain seemed to be almost in a battle trance.

 

@Marshall: WoT meant "black-out" as in "went berzerk".