Unremembered Empire....initial review

[helterskelter]

It doesnt look great when you mock the majority of authors. You forgot to add wet leopard to dan abnetts name whilst I mention it :p

[Pyroriffic]

Your faith in me is delightfully flattering and for that, I thank you wholeheartedly.

 

:)

[helterskelter]

I've been a bit slow here.. miss Cawkwell we salute you.. WE ARE NOT WORTHY WE ARE NOT WORTHY.

ahem, heroine worship over.

[depthcharge12]

Your faith in me is delightfully flattering and for that, I thank you wholeheartedly.

 

:)

 

Eeeep

 

Well...I guess of you want to name one of your characters depthcharge....aww shucks

 

 

:P just kidding of course.

 

 

Any legions find your fancy?

[Conn Eremon]

Your faith in me is delightfully flattering and for that, I thank you wholeheartedly.

 

:)

You are quite welcome. I don't say it just because you happen to be present and will read it. I say it because what I have read was better than the typical 40k book and I want to see more. If McNeill was here, I promise that I would be all nonstop why's. 'Why do you keep depicting the Codex like a connect the dots strategy book?' being the most repeated.

 

But I can't help but notice you didn't say one way or the other about writing a Horus Heresy book or short. No interest? Can't say? Or is it not up to you whether or not you can write 30k?

[Pyroriffic]

Your faith in me is delightfully flattering and for that, I thank you wholeheartedly.

You are quite welcome. I don't say it just because you happen to be present and will read it. I say it because what I have read was better than the typical 40k book and I want to see more. If McNeill was here, I promise that I would be all nonstop why's. 'Why do you keep depicting the Codex like a connect the dots strategy book?' being the most repeated.

But I can't help but notice you didn't say one way or the other about writing a Horus Heresy book or short. No interest? Can't say? Or is it not up to you whether or not you can write 30k?

I would most certainly like to. As for legions I like... all of them? :)

If the opportunity were presented, I would definitely be grabbing it. For now, I am enjoying doing what I'm doing with the Silver Skulls - they've been a joy to develop and work with. I REALLY enjoyed the chance to write an Emperor's Children character in the 'Tyrant's Champion' short that came out last Monday. It felt a little bit like being allowed to play with the Grown Up Children's Toys.

[depthcharge12]

Would you be more interested in flushing out a barely mentioned legion? Or do you like psykers more?

 

 

I'm just trying to get an angle on what you would be partial to write. Im sure your vision of an emperors children legionary will be refreshing in the sense that really only Graham McNeill has written about them.

[Pyroriffic]

(I will take the answer to PM as am conscious have de-railed the thread - sorry, folks).

[Badaboom]

  Hey people!

 

  I just finished the audiobook, and I must say...

 

 

...That it seemed to be a really dumb story in general terms, with Vulkan being killed so many times I can´t even remember, a full squad of Alpha Legionnaries entering the private chambers of Guilliman like it´s nothing, a total discontrol on the power level of the Primarchs (aha, so you can lift titans and slain companies of marines, but a squad of 10 almost kills Guilliman?).

Also Curze, who has never been regarded as one of the best warriors amongst the Primarchs, now can deal with two of his brothers at once without even flinching. Then a human (ok, a Perpetual) kills Vulkan several times and even dodges his hammer blows several times! Oh, c´mon...

Well, and now that I have vented my frustration, my bet is that we will see more of Narek of the Word, and I hope he becomes one of Garro´s troupe.

 

[Kol Saresk]

Curze kept up with the Lion before. Actually, in one fight the only thing that saved the Lion was intervention from a third party, a la Corswain going Troy and shoving a sword through Curze's back. So why is it so hard to believe that Curze has potential in melee combat, especially when he's going full shadow mode and is just evading attacks and not really striking back?

[Red Angel]

Curze kept up with the Lion before. Actually, in one fight the only thing that saved the Lion was intervention from a third party, a la Corswain going Troy and shoving a sword through Curze's back. So why is it so hard to believe that Curze has potential in melee combat, especially when he's going full shadow mode and is just evading attacks and not really striking back?

If I recall correctly ADB said that this fight was a draw, though I dont feel he managed to write it that way. As for Curze it is not hard to believe that he has some potential, yet i don't think that he should be able to fight on even footing with knight. After all Curze was just a murderer not trained fighter.

Speaking of the fight in UE Curze not only dodged but laid blows of his own, which while not unreasonable was not written well in my opinion. Curze may be a good in fighthing but how long would he last before two primarchs kill him, considering it took Lion only 60 seconds to nearly carve him to pieces.

[Kol Saresk]

Don't recall not saying it wasn't a draw. But the fact it was a draw meant that the lion could sucker punch Curze and Curze still keep the fighting even.

 

And here, he is fighting while using a psyker ability that affects his opponent's ability to see him.

 

I can understand not liking it, I just don't get why it is so impossible to believe it is possible.

[Red Angel]

Don't recall not saying it wasn't a draw. But the fact it was a draw meant that the lion could sucker punch Curze and Curze still keep the fighting even.

 

And here, he is fighting while using a psyker ability that affects his opponent's ability to see him.

 

I can understand not liking it, I just don't get why it is so impossible to believe it is possible.

It sucker punch was kind of stupid, it made Lion look like he don't really know what to do in a fight. Why try this kind of move if it had no effect on the enemy? Why not go for the head or heart? He could tap Curze one the soulder and say suprise - effect would be the same. Also I think it would have more sense if Curze would be one to did that.

As for the fight in UE Curze just looks to good in comparison to his enemies. Why not write that he resorted to more estoeric means of combat knowing that he could not take on two of his brothers? I have some issues with Curze fighting ability, yet problem is rather with how the battles are written.

[Badaboom]

Well, I´m sure Curze is a fearsome opponent, but he´s facing two of his brothers at once, and giving both a hard time. That´s quite an achievement. Also, the one other Primarch who kept roaring and dying was pretty much hillarious...

[Excessus]

Also, remember that the squad of AL was tasked with this primarily. They most likely were specifically and highly trained and armed to take out a primarch, and had surprise on their side. Also, the guards outside Robbie G:s doors aren't primarchs.

 

Despite all this they all got slaughtered...

[Kol Saresk]

@Red Angel: It was a Primarch versus a Primarch. Equal footing. Throwing a sucker punch puts the scales into the Lion's favor. It would actually be the equivalent of me walking up to you, saying hi and smiling and then just as you're reacting, slug you in the face with one hand while reaching for a knife with the other. It was effective. Curze just has good rebound.

 

Also, remember that the squad of AL was tasked with this primarily. They most likely were specifically and highly trained and armed to take out a primarch, and had surprise on their side. Also, the guards outside Robbie G:s doors aren't primarchs.

 

Despite all this they all got slaughtered...

No. A primarch killing ten Astartes with a marble bust just isn't good enough. :P

[Red Angel]

 

 

@Red Angel: It was a Primarch versus a Primarch. Equal footing. Throwing a sucker punch puts the scales into the Lion's favor. It would actually be the equivalent of me walking up to you, saying hi and smiling and then just as you're reacting, slug you in the face with one hand while reaching for a knife with the other. It was effective. Curze just has good rebound.

 

@Kol_Saresk - Throwing the sucker punch should have more profund effect on Curze. As it stand it was simply wasted opportunity. And as I said it made Lion look weak - despite having the edge he still practically loose the duel. That looks like incompetence. Sucker punch would be relevant if Lion would win thanks to it, it would be relevant if Curze would be one to do it and El Jonson would manage to fight Night Haunter to standstill. 

While I can see it could be sign of Curze being tough, to me it looks more like a weakness of Lion - mistake that should not be made by trained fighter.

 

[Red Angel]

Also, remember that the squad of AL was tasked with this primarily. They most likely were specifically and highly trained and armed to take out a primarch, and had surprise on their side. Also, the guards outside Robbie G:s doors aren't primarchs.

 

Despite all this they all got slaughtered...

It could also be said that they were ordered to fail in their atempt to kill RG just to make him more paranoid. While it is not illogical to assume that they were rather good at their craft it isn't explictly said. As it stands it looks foolish if even only because author made attempt at unnecessary realism. Primarchs are generally depicted as gods of war and yet RG is nearly killed by 10 Astartes. And don't forget that enemy choose to talk to him rather than finish him... again. This scene just does not fit with primarchs capabilities and is kind of pointless. It would made more sense if AL has another objective, one not guarded by plot armor.

[Excessus]

All primarchs have very thick plot armour, unfortunately that was the aspect the Alpha Legion didn't take into account...

[Red Angel]

All primarchs have very thick plot armour, unfortunately that was the aspect the Alpha Legion didn't take into account...

Of course. So it is better to not write in way that force it's use. There was no real need for AL infiltrators, it is already known the are everyone and their cat. There also is no need for mustache twirling and answering your target questions - one could think that villiains in far future will learn some pragmatism.

[Wade Garrett]

As far as Curze vs The Lion in Savage Weapons, it's a Primarch who singlehandedly pacified his planet against the guy who needed a giant army at his back to accomplish the same thing, and who is later beaten into a ten thousand year coma by an old man semi-Astartes.

 

The outcome was fairly predictable.

[Excessus]

All primarchs have very thick plot armour, unfortunately that was the aspect the Alpha Legion didn't take into account...

Of course. So it is better to not write in way that force it's use. There was no real need for AL infiltrators, it is already known the are everyone and their cat. There also is no need for mustache twirling and answering your target questions - one could think that villiains in far future will learn some pragmatism.

There is always a need for Alpha Legion infiltrators!

Also, don't fall to the "internet wisdom" of how the Alpha Legion are...

They are not as much Mary Sue as you'd think...

[Kol Saresk]

All primarchs have very thick plot armour, unfortunately that was the aspect the Alpha Legion didn't take into account...

Of course. So it is better to not write in way that force it's use. There was no real need for AL infiltrators, it is already known the are everyone and their cat. There also is no need for mustache twirling and answering your target questions - one could think that villiains in far future will learn some pragmatism.

There is always a need for Alpha Legion infiltrators!

Also, don't fall to the "internet wisdom" of how the Alpha Legion are...

They are not as much Mary Sue as you'd think...

Psssh just because everyone shown does doesn't mean they aren't Mary Sue. :D

[Red Angel]

@Exscessus

I have two issues with Alpha's ine UE: firstly we as readers know that they will not succed so why bother? Secondly it makes RG look weak in comparison to others. I think that UE would lose nothing if it was no atempt to kill Roboute and no Alpha Legion in it. But if author felt they were necessary he could gave them achievable objective.

[Carach]

the Alpha legion thing probably has connection to something further down the line - they like putting things in stories with no immediate use, only for things to tie in a few books later and u find urself being like "omg"/"why?!"/"so thattttttttts what it was forrrr.. coooollll"

 

Considering they were pretending to be someone we know is on his way home in the audiobook 'Censure', and they know how good a chum of rob's he is.. theres more to that story.