Unremembered Empire....initial review

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

Okay, so everybody BUT Lorgar...HOW IN THE EMPEROR'S NAME?!

 

I hate waiting for paperback.

 

WLK

[Verity]

Wait, during this book Cruze, Sanguinius, Vulkan, Lorgrar, and Guilliman are all on one planet at the same time!?!?

 

Some explanations, please people!

 

WLK

Not quite, but close enough.

 

Gulliman's on Macragge cause it's his place...Vulkan lands there from a blind teleport, The Lion arrives there after a beacon is lit up using xenos tech, he brings Curze with him believing him to be trapped, and finds himself somewhat mistaken on that count and towards the end of the novel Sanguinus pops in.

 

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

I want to state again I hate waiting for paperback.

 

there is so much awesome I am missing out on.

 

WLK

[Lord Ragnarok]

I want to state again I hate waiting for paperback.

 

there is so much awesome I am missing out on.

 

WLK

Then why wait? You could at least read it on a PC via google play books. You don't have to have a ipad or other gadget, unless you just like the feel of paper.

 

I enjoyed the book very much. Felt there may have been a tad bit too much going on, but I enjoyed everything Abnett laid out. It could easily been very confusing. My favorite part of the HH books is actually very boring...the interaction between Primarchs and the Primarchs with others, when not in battle. There was plenty of that. I think my favorite part was the...

.Extreme tension when 400 DA Drop Pods were launched into Macragge and the expected tension between Primarchs because of it. 

 

 

As far as being a SW fan.... I liked how they were depicted overall. It got better through the book. The continuous mentioning of them sharpening their blades at every moment was..annoying. 

[b1soul]

I'm having a hard time putting this one down (same problem I have with almost all Dan Abnett books)...BUT there is one little thing that's bugging me tremendously

 

An armoured Guilliman struggles to beat 10 Astartes and only survives because the Astartes with a blade at his throat pauses to speak like a gloating James Bond villain...I mean really? The exact same thing happens with Kor Phaeron and I thought that was bad enough, this is even worst. It's just 10 Astartes with bolters. This seems to be completely inconsistent with how Corax rapestomps his way through hordes of traitors in Ravensflight.

[Noctus Cornix]

That seems.... strange.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

@Lord Rags: I'm a primitve person, who like to do his reading on the remains of butchered plants.

I spend my day reading information off of a computer screen. I prefer my multiple book shelves to a flash drive.

 

WLK

[Kol Saresk]

b1soul, I'd like to see any Primarch do a better job of being a literal representation of "shooting fish in a barrel" and then take a sword to the back. At least when it happened to Curze, he was only fighting a Primarch on somewhat equal terms. Guilliman has the misfortune of being at the wrong end of ten weapons that fire Astartes-killing, armor-piercing, rocket-propelled explosives, which he got hit with several of IIRC.

 

As far as Kor Phaeron using sorcery to fight Guilliman, it's not really that different from when an overweight, sickly mortal fought and kept up with Horus. Both had crutches. Temba had the anathame. Phaeron had only a couple hundred years of sorcery and who knows what kind of warp-taint. But that's okay, because Guilliman still cleared a ship full of daemons, survived void exposure with shallow breaths and punched the head right off of a Word Bearer all before he fought Kor Phaeron. So you know, Guilliman was obviously at the peak of his power and his moral was not damaged by the fact Calth was burning right below his feet or that he was going up against someone who had been a servant of the Ruinious Powers probably before he(Guilliman) was even created. Because you know, those things like "details" aren't important to consider.

 

Curze took a sword to the back Brad-Pitt-Troy style, Horus took a scratch from an anathame, but it's Guilliman being ambushed by Astartes who specialize in doing the unexpected(and usually succeeding) that creates disbelief alongside a weakened Guilliman fighting a fresh, warp-fuelled Kor Phaeron who primarily used sorcery because so far, most of the portrayals of Corax have been so far over the top they make UR Curze look like a turtle who was dropped from a plane and then run over by a semi with a full load before happening to be at Ground Zero of a nuclear blast.

[DIDM]

I am excited for this

 

and it comes out on my bday

[Gree]

I'm having a hard time putting this one down (same problem I have with almost all Dan Abnett books)...BUT there is one little thing that's bugging me tremendously

 

An armoured Guilliman struggles to beat 10 Astartes and only survives because the Astartes with a blade at his throat pauses to speak like a gloating James Bond villain...I mean really? The exact same thing happens with Kor Phaeron and I thought that was bad enough, this is even worst. It's just 10 Astartes with bolters. This seems to be completely inconsistent with how Corax rapestomps his way through hordes of traitors in Ravensflight.

 

I guess the only explanation is ''different author interpretation''. There really isn't any excuse for why Guilliman was almost killed by ten Marines, unless you subscribe to the theory that Guilliman was one of the weakest Primarchs. (Which to be honest, is looking more and more plausible each time he fights)

 

That and I'm rather puzzled why Abnett basically repeated the same plot device with Guilliman being spared by his opponent's gloating. Once was bad enough, but twice? I don't even think the Alpha Legion ambush was even that necessary to the plot even.

[Vazzy]

I'm actually curious as to what happened to Thiel after Censure though. Can anyone tell me if he died in it? I haven't had a chance to listen to it. 

[gogmagog]

I hope not!

[Kol Saresk]

I'm actually curious as to what happened to Thiel after Censure though. Can anyone tell me if he died in it? I haven't had a chance to listen to it.

I hope not!

I echo this.

[Entei]

Thiel is captured by Alpha Legion, but Omegon will free him and together they join Garro as founders of the Grey Knights!

 

 

 

Seriously though, if you're going to assassinate a Primarch I doubt you send a simple tactical squad. Where does it say that they are regular marines and not the very elite of the AL? They could easily all be captain-level imho.

[Emperor's Furor]

 

No writer has ever made the loyalists anywhere near as cool as the traitors. We have things they did that were cool, but you don't see the same love from Black Library.

 

A DB is entirely apathetic to writing a HH book giving love to loyalists. Dan doesn't expand them, just writes them.

 

It's why word bearers and night lords cover the wip forum.

 

No. No, no, no, dude. I am anything but apathetic about loyalists. 

 

When I joined the HH team, around the time of the release of Legion, the Ultramarines were reserved for Graham until Calth; the Dark Angels already had a book that I'd read and wasn't interested in carrying on with their direction; the Iron Hands had lost their primarch, so if I took a crack at them, I'd be negating my shot at getting to write a primarch at all; the Space Wolves were reserved until Prospero (I went to my first meeting hoping to pitch Prospero, and learned it was already in the pipeline); the Salamanders were unofficially reserved out of pal-ness for Nick; the Blood Angels were reserved by Jim until Signus Prime; the Imperial Fists didn't look like they were doing much at the time and I really wanted to be out there getting involved in the war itself; and the Raven Guard were practically annihilated. I have a lot of love for the White Scars, but this was my first ever (and possibly only) Heresy novel, and I wanted something... y'know. Famous. Meaty. As much as I love them, I didn't want my only possible contribution to Heresy lore to be a Great Crusade novel about the the White Scars.

 

In my first meeting, we talked about the Ultramarines in Imperium Secundus and at Calth, and the Blood Angels at Signus Prime, and the Space Wolves at Prospero. All of it was reserved. That stole my passion for pitching a sub-tier loyalist tale. 

 

I should add, none of the above was out of any malice from the other guys. Stuff was just done differently then, and that was the next few years laid out in plans. If I'd begged, I'm sure one or two of them would've let me have some of that cake (not the Blood Angels though, I tried a thousand times) but I barely knew the guys at that point. When Dan Abnett is sat across from you at a table in your first ever meeting that you're still not sure you should even be at, and he says "I'm writing that", you shut the hell up and wait for an awesome novel. You don't say "Actually, famous guy I've just met, I can do that better than you. I want it."

 

Now, a lot of this has changed in subsequent years, as the series has opened up and Legion's don't get earmarked so comprehensively. But there's still a backlog of reservations and planned storylines that are only now clearing out. 

 

People often assume I prefer Traitors. I don't prefer anyone - there's only one Legion I'm not keen on, and I avoid them completely - but sometimes you write what's left, because what you'd have chosen first of all has someone else's stickers all over it. I think the most commonly uttered words out of my mouth in meetings are: "I want to write about the Blood Angels."

Well as a fan of your work, I'd really like to see your take on the loyalists, I hope someone will make way for you to get to grips with one at some stage. I was at the BL seminar at games day and I agreed with what Chris Wraight said about authors different styles and interpretations of legions.

 

I think since it's getting closer to Siege then perhaps you could now take a swing at the Imperial Fists?, they could really do with a book to set them up for the siege rather than the several short stories and small cameos they keep having, atm they appear to be taking the position of the "hard-asses" that's usually reserved to the Ultramarines adherence to the codex.

 

Thiel is captured by Alpha Legion, but Omegon will free him and together they join Garro as founders of the Grey Knights!

 

 

 

Seriously though, if you're going to assassinate a Primarch I doubt you send a simple tactical squad. Where does it say that they are regular marines and not the very elite of the AL? They could easily all be captain-level imho.

Is this in the audio drama or in Mark of Calth, I've yet to listen or read either and was wondering if it was worth getting.

[Vazzy]

Thiel is captured by Alpha Legion, but Omegon will free him and together they join Garro as founders of the Grey Knights!

 

 

 

Seriously though, if you're going to assassinate a Primarch I doubt you send a simple tactical squad. Where does it say that they are regular marines and not the very elite of the AL? They could easily all be captain-level imho.

Wait...really? That's irritating. 

[Entei]

 

 

Thiel is captured by Alpha Legion, but Omegon will free him and together they join Garro as founders of the Grey Knights!

 

 

 

Seriously though, if you're going to assassinate a Primarch I doubt you send a simple tactical squad. Where does it say that they are regular marines and not the very elite of the AL? They could easily all be captain-level imho.

Is this in the audio drama or in Mark of Calth, I've yet to listen or read either and was wondering if it was worth getting.

the first sentence was a joke. Thiel's whereabouts are currently unknown.

 

Thiel is not in Mark of Calth. But he's in the audiodrama Censure. I thought Censure was alright, doesn't contribute much to the big plot though, but Thiel is pretty badass in it, and it's probably one of Kyme's better works.

[Karthak]

People often assume I prefer Traitors. I don't prefer anyone - there's only one Legion I'm not keen on, and I avoid them completely - but sometimes you write what's left, because what you'd have chosen first of all has someone else's stickers all over it. I think the most commonly uttered words out of my mouth in meetings are: "I want to write about the Blood Angels."

You do realize that some fans, right now, are probably making detailed lists of which Legions you've written about, in an attempt to figure out which one you're not keen on? :D

[Scribe]

I gave it a bit of a think, but would rather think about where the HH goes next...

[Wade Garrett]

b1soul, I'd like to see any Primarch do a better job of being a literal representation of "shooting fish in a barrel"....

 

Lorgar in Betrayer. Completely drained from managing the Ruinstorm and saving Angron, fighting TWENTY War Hounds Librarians at once, and murdering the holy heck out of them until the Contemptor dreadnaught started clawing his guts out.

 

Guilliman's performance here is not even consistent with the power levels he displayed in Know No Fear, unless there were fewer than ten Word Bearers attacking Thiel's squad when Rob ambushed them while being so hardcore that he doesn't even NEED oxygen.

 

Perturabo swats around Iron Hands kill teams equipped with much killier weapons than just "Bolters which fire Astartes killing high explosive rounds" in Angel Exterminatus, Corax walks through the an army of Word Bearers, an Iron Warriors artillery bombardment, and the Gal Vorbak on Isstvan, It takes an entire company of Night Lords to get Johnson off Curze's mutiliated form....the list goes on and on.

 

The only possible interpretation for this is that Guilliman is the most pathetic of all 18 brothers, who is only dangerous if he's hiding behind a desk giving orders. I'm not saying this because I hate Guilliman, I WANT him to be a worthy opponent to Lorgar, Angron, etc, but the way Dan Abnett writes him Rob is in serious danger of keeling over from a stiff breeze.

 

I'm not saying go full "Kneel before your spiritual liege!" (Nick Kyme did enough of that with Vulkan) but for the love of the Four! Ten Astartes with bolters? Just go all the way and have a squad of Whiteshields with lasguns slap Rob around and steal his lunch money.

[Scribe]

 

b1soul, I'd like to see any Primarch do a better job of being a literal representation of "shooting fish in a barrel"....

 

...

 

I'm not saying go full "Kneel before your spiritual liege!" (Nick Kyme did enough of that with Vulkan) but for the love of the Four! Ten Astartes with bolters? Just go all the way and have a squad of Whiteshields with lasguns slap Rob around and steal his lunch money.

 

Wade you slay me, I agree, but its still earlyish...for me to be laughing so much.

[Conn Eremon]

Yes, Lorgar did more. But he should be able to. He's not the Lorgar of the Crusade. He might not be a Horus, or a Magnus, but he is damn fething powerful now. He's certainly more than a Primarch, even if just.

 

But damn it, I do not see how Guilliman is seen as weak here. A tired man holds a lost son tight to his breast, and people are honestly complaining that the hidden dagger didn't just shatter instead of penetrating? Bull :cuss .

[RapatoR]

I did not read a book so far, but from I have read from forum so far, it seems that Guiliman was not wearing an armour. Considering fan bias and tendency to put things out of cotext, I am betting that this will be a perfectly plausible scene. Surely they would not send ordinary Marines against Roboute, and they might have some kind of special issue ammunition (Seeker squad style - heck they were heavily used by AL).

 

Wade: Those Librarians had clearly the upper hand. Lorgar thought they are one of gods. They just made mistake when they tried to drown archpriest of chaos in warp. He couldn´t beat Comminion until he realised it is gestalt of souls and started to pick them one by one. Moreover, it is shown, how devastatingly Communion affects Librarians (Esca is almost killed by ordinary human after ending Communion before). Add possible negative influence of raging Ruinstorm and you got very different view.

 

EDIT: Heck, I would say that few other primarchs would survive abmush that happened to Roboute.

[Wade Garrett]

But damn it, I do not see how Guilliman is seen as weak here. A tired man holds a lost son tight to his breast, and people are honestly complaining that the hidden dagger didn't just shatter instead of penetrating? Bull .

The problem being that this exhausted fellow is basically Superman, and ever other Kryptonian we've seen stabbed with knifes, swords, or lochaber axes has responded with mild annoyance at the worst, yet somehow because Superman was taken off guard he's suddenly all "OH NOES THE KNIFE IN MY HEART I AM DOOMED!" when, based on the other examples involving Kryptonians and stabby things, the response should have been "Oh, it is ON now! Time to punch some heads so hard they explode!"

[Scribe]

Actually, no Cormac. He did notice, before they attacked, that there was going to be one. The problem is one of durability, endurance, and power. He reflected none of those qualities in that scene.

 

Meanwhile,

Curze is eaten by a grue, sucked into the WARP, kills it, and exits, before marching back to town.

 

After

 

fighting Lion and Rob

fighting 10 Space Wolves in the same room, and laughing at them while being stabbed.

fighting Vulkan and getting ALL smashed up

fighting the Perpetuals

 

And having no time to sit in a hospital, like Rob required. Oh and this was all after Curze was running around for what, 2 weeks, being hunted by the Lion.

 

 

How are people even white knighting this? I simply dont see how you can compare the two, and its not Curze thats got the problem here, Curze is on the level. The Russ, Angron, Lorgar, Rob (Betrayer), Vulkan level.

 

Right, add the Lion to 'the level'.

 

Rob just isnt there.