Fallen Codex Suppliment

[Bryan Blaire]

In the situation where a Fallen Supplement was done for C:DA (which I will agree is a possibility now

that the Deathwing actually has been confirmed to exist pre/during the Heresy by Unremembered Empire

), I imagine that the rule would simply be something like "Any unit with the Inner Circle rule taken using this Supplement replaces Inner Circle with the rule 'Fallen Lion Cubs'" with whatever that would entail.

 

Still don't think it would be the best book to set as the main one for a supplement to build off of and I'd much rather see several other DA Supplements come out first.

[InstantKarma]

In the situation where a Fallen Supplement was done for C:DA (which I will agree is a possibility now

that the Deathwing actually has been confirmed to exist pre/during the Heresy by Unremembered Empire

), I imagine that the rule would simply be something like "Any unit with the Inner Circle rule taken using this Supplement replaces Inner Circle with the rule 'Fallen Lion Cubs'" with whatever that would entail.

 

Still don't think it would be the best book to set as the main one for a supplement to build off of and I'd much rather see several other DA Supplements come out first.

 

That was what I was thinking of.  I think Grim Resolve could easily be left alone, as I think fluff would support that the DAs of 40 & 30k are equally stubborn/intractable.  I agree 'Inner Circle' would be the one rule that would require some adjustment.

 

In regards to a point about 'lacking wargear' it strikes me that we could just make the same argument about CSMs.

 

Again, I think an advantage of fluff being somewhat vague is that for gaming purposes, the players can have an idea, create even a marginal justification for it, and then build an army.

 

Plus a squad of Gunslinger Company Vets to follow Cypher around as doppelgangers is just too tempting!

[Master Avoghai]

I do think that Fallen supplement could be the perfect way for GW to create new kind of supplements : allies supplement.

 

The main problem we have in v6 is the flyers system that use v5 vehicles and costs in v6 with new flyers system and the allies system that allows strange combo like GK/necrons alliance o_O

 

I think that rather than developing new army lists (after all, Iyanden is totally playable without their special rules... And I don't even want to talk about Farsight enclaves..), they should develop codex for alliances

 

Legion of the damned for imperial army

Eldar pirates for eldar and DE

Human colony for Tau

Fallen for chaos and traitor IG

Genestealer cult for Nids...

 

This kind of supplement would allow several things, limitating the strange alliances, exploring some parts of the 40k universe, and bemused as a playtest for further army list/codex development... And I don't even talk about the modeling possibilities...

 

If you think about this way, then you could perfectly imagine a fallen list where only the HQ and the champions are fallen leading chaos marines thanks to their superior experience... The list would use the chaos codex with such limitations :

 

The army CANNOT be used as primary detachment.

You have access to the special unit : Fallen council, consisting of 1-5 chaos lords and 0-1 sorcerer.

They count as a single HQ choice but are all ICs.

They have access to the marks and standard weapons but not the special chaos gifts. (We can imagine a special artefact list)

They can join any allied unit they want (from the primary AND the allied detachment) following the chaos gods feud rule.

They give a special rule like Hatred (imperium) to the squad they join.

 

The army list is chosen amongst those units :

 

TROOPS :

CSM

Cultists

 

ELITE :

Terminators

Veterans

 

FA :

Bikes

Raptors

 

HS none (we assume this is a mobile force hence no big tanks, we can compensate by giving access to 2FA or 2 Elite slots)

 

 

I really think that this kind of allies supplement can really bring another side to the hobby and the universe as well as opening new modelling possibilities for players. At the end we can imagine that the alliance schedule could be revised.

 

 

That's for this kind of project I do believe in a fallen supplement... But I don't know if the big heads at GW share this excitement :unsure:

[TheForgottenAngel]

That is far too limiting of a force organization chart. Honestly I feel that people are taking one part of the story and claiming there to be a handful of remaining Fallen. I really believe that a codex supplement Lost and the Damned would be the best way to go. So many possibilities. You could even see Forge World do a supplement of their own or an Imperial Armor with rules for Cypher and perhaps expand on a few lesser known Fallen or make up some of their own all together! Personally I find it MORE likely that Forge World include The Fallen into an Imperial Armor book around or near the release of the 1st Legion in their Horus Heresy line.

[FerociousBeast]

No one's saying there's only a handful of remaining Fallen. However, the fluff is quite clear that there are almost never large groups of Fallen. Cypher tends to be able to draw the most Fallen around him, and his followers still tend to be in the 0-10 range. There just aren't enough Fallen in one place in one time to justify an entire FOC.

 

I'd just like to see a single Elites unit, with 1-5 models, crazy options, and a 0-1 FOC restriction. Then a Cypher special character who removes the 0-1 FOC restriction. Which codex, of course, is the hard part to answer. As of today, with current Codexes as options, it would have to be C: CSM.

[Onisuzume]

Afaik, if you want to use the Fallen, just use the Vraksian Renegades list.

Think it only allows 32 PA-models, at most in a single FOC (3 elites and 2 characters).

[HsojVvad]

No one's saying there's only a handful of remaining Fallen. However, the fluff is quite clear that there are almost never large groups of Fallen. Cypher tends to be able to draw the most Fallen around him, and his followers still tend to be in the 0-10 range. There just aren't enough Fallen in one place in one time to justify an entire FOC.

 

Doesn't matter. Game play takes over fluff. Other wise, we wouldn't have the All Mighty Powerful Space Marines, hiding and cowering in vehicles until last turn in 5th edition. Not many people play fluffily. People play for fun. I would find it fun to be able to play as and against Fallen. 

 

GW can always recton about not having enough Fallen in one place to justify an entire FOC. 

 

Said it before, I will say it again. I don't care about the Fluff, I want to Hunt some actual Fallen and not pretend to be hunting Fallen. 

[TheForgottenAngel]

I think we'd be well served by even just having rules for Cypher in general for the time being. Also I know PLENTY of people who play for fluff, they probably out number the "competitive" players out there. It all boils down to what community you play in. I have may friends who will get together and play a narrative campaign over a month or so. If you want to hunt some Fallen play someone in your area that uses the Legion list. I've done it and had a grand time with the local Dark Angels player. My Moritat stood in perfectly for Cypher. While it would be nice ask your friends if you can use the rules for the Spanish Cypher and go from there. Agree on a points cost and have fun.

[Master Avoghai]

That is far too limiting of a force organization chart. Honestly I feel that people are taking one part of the story and claiming there to be a handful of remaining Fallen. I really believe that a codex supplement Lost and the Damned would be the best way to go. So many possibilities. You could even see Forge World do a supplement of their own or an Imperial Armor with rules for Cypher and perhaps expand on a few lesser known Fallen or make up some of their own all together! Personally I find it MORE likely that Forge World include The Fallen into an Imperial Armor book around or near the release of the 1st Legion in their Horus Heresy line.

This is a restricting FOC because it's a FOC for allies and not for a primary detachment.

 

I also would love to see FW make a lost and the damned force with special rules for cypher and fallen but as they are totally in HH for now I hardly see it happen in the next 2 years.

 

The proposal I've made is just to make things simple and rapidly playable. It doesn't limit the fallen player at all, it just allows him to play a starting collection of base chaos unit, or giving another themed to his army. Nothing prevents him to use the CSM book after to play more different units, he'll just lose the fallen HQ, and still... He could play them as allied force to his chaos army...

[InstantKarma]

I think we'd be well served by even just having rules for Cypher in general for the time being. Also I know PLENTY of people who play for fluff, they probably out number the "competitive" players out there. It all boils down to what community you play in. I have may friends who will get together and play a narrative campaign over a month or so. If you want to hunt some Fallen play someone in your area that uses the Legion list. I've done it and had a grand time with the local Dark Angels player. My Moritat stood in perfectly for Cypher. While it would be nice ask your friends if you can use the rules for the Spanish Cypher and go from there. Agree on a points cost and have fun.

 

I had imgained using C:DAs and making Cypher a Company Master, Artifcer Armor, Plasma & Bolt Pistol and the Displacer Field to increase his near unkill-ability and to mimic his whole 'he always manages to escape' trick.  Not perfect but completely legit for standard 40k.